Deadlift and Squat Program

Training Powerlifting
21

[quote]coyotegal wrote:
Oh one thing I was thinking tho that might benefit me with westside is the maxing weekly. ( I havent read the whole program yet)

Maxing here and there this past year usually left me burnt out for a week or so…recovery after workouts was really poor and all my numbers would go down for about a week. I think it would be a good idea to do it more and let my body get used to it, and in figuring out the lift % it will force me to work closer to my max instead of what I ‘think’
[/quote]

Yes. That is precisely what weekly heavy work is all about. Also and equally importantly, it gets you to drill technique under heavy load. This, although very difficult, eventually has to be addressed in some fashion if you are looking to make progress because it is a different mental state and challenge from lighter weights.

I would note though, that no matter what you do I would go probably a conservative max the first week, then the second week push it, then the third week go for broke. It is not a goal to fail at a lift attempt every workout, or even half of the workouts. The goal is to get used to straining at heavy ( >90%) weights and feel them in your hands or on your back.

22

Aragorn~ thanks for taking the time to write all that up :slight_smile: Very helpful and I appreciate it.

I think Westside it will be :slight_smile:

23

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
as I love Louie Simmons, he can’t write very well–or clearly, rather.[/quote]
I’ve read Louie’s Westside Book of Methods in its entirety. Louie’s writing style is basically just like his stream of consciousness lol. It was a very difficult read.

24

What are your current squat and deadlift maxes? What weight class?

25

[quote]gone heavy wrote:
What are your current squat and deadlift maxes? What weight class?[/quote]

I weight 134 and my dead is 270, and I havent checked my back squat in a long time but my guess is 225 (I can do a 205 front squat)

26

If you like high volume, Sheiko would be perfect. I gained 80lbs on squats and 45lbs on deadlifts on a 4 month cycle.

27

[quote]coyotegal wrote:
Aragorn~ thanks for taking the time to write all that up :slight_smile: Very helpful and I appreciate it.

I think Westside it will be :)[/quote]

Big fan of the Westside template myself lol.

Btw if you have a 205 front squat I think a good short term goal is a 250 back squat. I find front squat being about 80% of back squat is a good range. Not a rule or anything, more just an observation. Seems if you really focus on the front squat it likes to sit around 80% of your back squat. If it’s higher than that then your back squat should jump up pretty quick.

Obviously if you focus all your time on the back squat the front is much much lower and that is ok. After all, you can’t compete in front squatting at a PL meet!

28

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]coyotegal wrote:
Aragorn~ thanks for taking the time to write all that up :slight_smile: Very helpful and I appreciate it.

I think Westside it will be :)[/quote]

Big fan of the Westside template myself lol.

Btw if you have a 205 front squat I think a good short term goal is a 250 back squat. I find front squat being about 80% of back squat is a good range. Not a rule or anything, more just an observation. Seems if you really focus on the front squat it likes to sit around 80% of your back squat. If it’s higher than that then your back squat should jump up pretty quick.

Obviously if you focus all your time on the back squat the front is much much lower and that is ok. After all, you can’t compete in front squatting at a PL meet![/quote]

Yeah I have always trained FS predominately. For some reason I feel better/safer? lol time to make a change :slight_smile: I think it will come along nicely once I get used to it again.

Need to order a belt.

Feel free to have a look in my log every now and then and let me know if I am following the program correctly :slight_smile: It would be appreciated!

29

Jim Steel, has a blog " Bas’ Barbell" lots of percentage based 6-12 week squat programs in archives, real basic, and easy to follow programs. Lots of volume with low reps 12x2x90% type stuff, that will have you adding possibly 5% every 6 weeks, Brandon Lilly, and Kirk karwoski follow same routines. I’ve had good luck with these % blocks. Lots of guys I know have real good luck with West side, but I get bogged down

30

[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
Jim Steel, has a blog " Bas’ Barbell" lots of percentage based 6-12 week squat programs in archives, real basic, and easy to follow programs. Lots of volume with low reps 12x2x90% type stuff, that will have you adding possibly 5% every 6 weeks, Brandon Lilly, and Kirk karwoski follow same routines. I’ve had good luck with these % blocks. Lots of guys I know have real good luck with West side, but I get bogged down[/quote]

I too have had tremendous results from high set low rep training, so this sounds good. Sheiko could work very well too (29 is supposedly the best for deadlift) as could Smolov as mentioned. However, if you really want to practise max/near max lifts more often, perhaps a simple ramp and back-off system would be best:

Session 1 - Squat Session 2 - Bench Session 3 - Deadlift Session 4 - Rest

With each session being:

Main Lift - Build to max/rep max, then take 80% and complete up to 10 back-off sets
Assistance - As required, progressive.

Vary maximum sets in a cycle (1RM, 4RM, 2RM, 5RM, Deload + 1RM, etc. or as desired) or by feel, with either one max session a week and the other 10x3 with 70-80% max, or two max sessions a week (be more conservative with weight) plus one session of 10x3 with 70-80%, by training AM/PM.

This allows plenty of flexibility, and could be great if you worked to your full capacity with it.

Anyway, good luck whatever you decide on, and remember not to forget nutrition and recovery.

31

[quote]cct wrote:
If you like high volume, Sheiko would be perfect. I gained 80lbs on squats and 45lbs on deadlifts on a 4 month cycle.[/quote]

I second this. In addition you’ll get plenty of practice with the competition lifts and really hammer your form.

32

I don’t know of a particular program that specializes on both those lifts at the same time…but for what it’s worth, there’s always Smolov for squats and maybe the Coan/Philippi cycle for deadlifts. You could also try a Sheiko template which practices all the main lifts very frequently with little assistance.

33

[quote]Mahoney wrote:

[quote]chobbs wrote:

[quote]Mahoney wrote:
It seems you have the perfect schedule for the Westside routine. IMO maxing weekly is going to bring up your squats and deadlifts the best. I also like what Stan Efferding and Eric Lilliebridge do for squats and deads. One week you max squats and the next you max deads and repeat[/quote]
Weren’t you just railing on speed work in another thread? How can it be Westside w/o speed work?[/quote]

You make it sound like Westside is a routine that only works on speed. I love everything Westside does except speed work. I pretty much do Westside without speed. Instead of speed work I’ll do a 5 rep max on any given exercise. For chest illegal wide, incline, dumbells. For squat/deadlift I’ll do good mornings, still legged deadlifts, high bar squats, box squats. So I use the conjugate method on both the 5 rep max and max day and have had great results. 485 squat, 610 deadlift at 173[/quote]

Don’t mean to highjack the thread, but very interested in how you replaced the speed work with a 5RM day. I’ve found the DE day for squat/dl very helpful for those lifts, but never felt I’ve gotten much out of speed bench. A couple months ago I switched out the DE bench for some rep work on a bench variation (basically DeFranco’s idea). But I like this 5RM approach better, and can get the RE work in after the 5RM and ME work each day as always with Westside.

Couple questions:

Have you done this with your bench day as well as your squat/dl day? Any thoughts about how it’s worked for bench?

Have you had any issues with burnout? Louie always seems to have 90%+ as the magic number he talks about in relation to CNS issues, and a 5RM seems to put you right about there.

34

And OP, count me as another vote for Westside. It’s been awesome for my squat and deadlift.

I’d throw in deadlift variations for ME squat/dl day a lot more often. Tate has none, and that was probably the case in 2000 at westside, but the squat and DL manual from 2011 notes that they now use a deadlift variation just about as often as a squat or good morning variation on ME day, and that they do speed pulls most DE days now as well. I think the benefits of deadlifting more often are even more apparent for people who aren’t pulling 700-800+ pounds as Louie’s guys are, because a lifter with a 400-500lb deadlift is just not going to take the same beating (the one downside to deadlifts that had Louie originally hesitant to program them more often).