It’s about knowing the risks, what increases the risks and making an informed choice.
Wither it be marijuana, alcohol, steroids, smoking or full contact belly dancing, knowing the risks and making an informed decision, whatever it might be, is the way to go. One thing we do have to be conscious of is that, many studies are funded by groups with ulterior motives, let’s not forget the lasts one that showed Luck Charms being more healthy than eggs !
I think the mantras of, “everything in moderation” and “if you don’t feel good doing it, don’t”, are good places to start.
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Good grief, man. We get it. It’s been years. People have their side already. You’re not going to sway anyone that hasn’t been swayed already. Every interesting discussion gets highjacked by someone all wound up because someone in a white coat posts something that agrees with their stance on the vaccine, and they think everyone needs to hear about it. We don’t.
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I have posted multiple sources that proves the vaccine is a gene therapy! If the links were removed I have no control over that. The vaccine came up as a discussion because the writer claims to be a microbiologist and therefore assures us that it’s safe as any other vaccine. That’s absolutely false as the data proves it. Plus the writer has great information about health supplements which I often use so I find ironic that I was flagged when I mention the vaccine since it’s truly a GMO product
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The vaccine is not gene therapy, it is immune system therapy. I’m not vaxxed, no one in my house is vaxxed, and I’m a definitive non-believer in the vaccine, but the stuff you’re going on about is not based in facts.
At this point, do you honestly think that you - a random dude on the internet - will change anyone’s opinion on the vaccine?
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It’s been mentioned previously, but it’s probably time that the COVID vaccine discussion gets moved to the Politics and World Issues forum.
Thanks!
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Couldn’t have said it better. I still find it ironic that a sport which at one time purported to represent the apotheosis of vitality, virility, strength, power, etc etc actually encourages behavior that is in direct opposition to those values.
Andrew Heffernan
andrewheffernan.com
“What I’m after is for people to live fully their unavowed dreams.” Moshe Feldenkrais
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Please create a new thread in the Politics and World Issues forum, or feel free to jump in any of the previous discussions on this topic there.
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I should have kept my mouth shut; I have failed you.
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You know what would be redeeming?
A series of really dank bodybuilding memes!
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While bodybuilding may be a particuarly unhealthy sport to compete in… most competitive sports aren’t great for you
Football, ice hockey, lacrosse, soccer, boxing etc
- orthopaedic injuries
- CTE
- steroid use (albeit not to nearly the same extent as bodybuilders)
Wrestling, BJJ, judo
- orthopaedic injuries
- steroid use is ranpant in BJJ
- cte FAR less common, almost unheard of. But occasional concussions aren’t unheard of when getting dumped, swept, taken down or thrown onto mats again and again and again. Should be noted most cases of CTE have more to do with cumulative, repeated sub concussive blows as opposed to a single TBI.
It is said the brunt of chronic brain damage incurred from boxing occurs in sparring, not fights. Shame you need to spar to develop a solid boxing base…
Marathon running
- premature onset joint degeneration
- serious endocrine pathology, most notably severe hypogonadism in the higher ranks of competitors.
- plausible increase in risk a-fib
Tennis
- premature onset joint degeneration… some of these guys/girls who are otherwise healthy (no connective tissue pathology etc) are getting hip and knee replacements in their 30s…
- screwed up shoulders
Etc
SPORTS when practiced competitively for the most part have nothing to do with health and longevity… it’s about competition and winning even if there is a price to pay for winning.
Exercise for longevity is more like… resistance training three times a week with a jog or two thrown in for good measure.
Bodybuilding is particuarly bad though
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rampant steroid use… and HGH, insulin, beta 2 agonists, DNP etc… actually just rampant drug use because bodybuilders also tend to use benzodiazepines, z-drugs, stimulants like amphetamines and recreational drugs. Being comfortable with needles for illicit steroid use already involves circumventing MANY social taboos
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orthopaedic injuries… how many competitive bodybuilders do you know who continued with heavy barbell workouts for decades and came out without spinal issues, injuries of the knees, hips, shoulders etc. The human body is only designed to lift so much
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vanity, narcissism and self absorption
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socially isolating at competitive levels (probably not great for mental health)
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crash dieting (long term metabolic effects of yoyo dieting aren’t great)
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cutting down to dangerously low BF%, severe dehydration prior to competition
Lots of athletes dehydrate themselves to cut/make weight… but very few are dipping down to 4-6% BF
Bodybuilding is one of the most unhealthy sports. You’d think with all that exercise you’d live a longer life… but it’s not just about the exercise, it’s about all else that comes with that sport and lifestyle.
Boxers die on average 10-15 years younger (avg lifespan for a pro boxer is 67). Do you know how much cardio/training one needs to undertake to be able to sustain a 12 round punch up?
A sport that stresses fantastic conditioning and adhering to a healthy lifestyle ultimately seems to substantially shorten practitioners lifespans.
Exercise doesn’t =/= a longer life. It is but one tool we can use to enhance quality of life and potentially increase our lifespans.
But exercise + brain damage? Or exercise + rampant drug use?
Sometimes the negative variable(s) can outright cancel out the positive effects mediated from exercise and vice versa.
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All completely true. The irony stems from the fact that, unique among all the sports you mention, bodybuilding as originally conceived and marketed claimed to showcase bodies developed to the pinnacle of health. The word ‘health’ was—and remains—in the title of many bodybuilding-focused magazines and media outlets. It continues to be invoked by many of its leading stars (Lee Haney—who is still healthy—has his own training cert). Given this history, the fact that health is now largely irrelevant to the bodybuilding conversation (at all but the most casual levels) is, at the very least, weird; the fact that no one seems to notice or mind may be even weirder. And more troubling.
Andrew Heffernan
“What I’m after is for people to live fully their unavowed dreams.” Moshe Feldenkrais
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Bodybuilding, as in, building the body, so to speak is actually healthy in some ways it’s done.
However I don’t expect ordinary people to understand what competitive bodybuilding involves, which is not healthy, natural or not. I competed once at an estimated bodyfat percentage of five to seven and felt mentally and physically sick from it. Uninvolved people generally are, unsurprisingly, unaware of this consequence.
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My only complaint is that you are seeing irony. Who on this forum was alive when bodybuilding was considered the pinnacle of health? The last possible time would have been the mid-1960’s and that is only because NO ONE was exercising for their health. Few took any consideration for their physical health. Just how old are you? IMO, it is impossible that you are younger than 70.
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Man, I don’t know. Muscle and Fitness promoted bodybuilding as the ultimate pursuit of health well into the 1990’s. The average guy didn’t know or believe that pro bodybuilders were on steroids. It wasn’t until I was editor-in-chief of Muscle Media 2000 in 1994 that we “exposed” bodybuilding drug practices.
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I’m not twisting your words, I’m asking you a question about your own potential biases, a clarification of your statement, to make sure I’m not misunderstanding your intention.
Unlike YT, Bitchute doesn’t editorialize by selecting who is allowed to post or not, based on the owner’s, CEO’s personal politics. If YT doesn’t like you, you get banned. The viewer in not allowed come to their own conclusions, by hearing all viewpoints and that is censorship, even if YT’s intentions are good(I don’t believe they are, it is about control)
I didn’t bring up the matrix analogy, you did. It was a good movie though, the sequels, not so much.
I’m not using anything, except posting a video, which I didn’t produce. You’re trying to hold me to a higher standard than the mainstream media and letting them get away with their propaganda unquestioned.
Maybe its your autism(not a criticism of you personally, I know you are highly intelligent, especially in the field of medicine, plus your family background) you seem to be capable of being hyper fixated on the micro rather than the entire broad story. It not just the data, it’s how it’s presented.
Experts may or may not directly be bound by constructs of university politics. They are affected by who pays the bills, and funds their research. Whether its big pharma, or government, he who pays the piper gets to call the tunes. Any dissenting voices in the medical profession were threatened with deregistration, if they didn’t tow the official line on Covid. There is no guaranteed totally independent position.
The article you referred is not an official government site, but one that says it uses official data. That doesn’t mean its automatically wrong. It appears to rely on donations , to exist. Once again it doesn’t automatically mean they are lying, but I couldn’t easily find out who actually runs it, or who is funding it, individuals, or perhaps vested interests. No accountability, and no clues to potential motivations.
Instead of referring people to huge articles that supposedly prove your point(and may in fact do), that probably no one is going to want to properly read, you would be more effective in explaining to rubes such as myself a briefer message, with no jargon, that refutes the actual points of the videos article, or at the very least addresses the concerns he brings up.
Remember, I respect you and your input, regardless of whether I agree with you or not on any particular issue.
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I was one of those dupes, that swallowed everything the Weiders put out when I was young. I knew about the existence of steroids, but really believed that just by working harder, you could still achieve the same results, just that it would only take longer.
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I’m 51. What you say may well be true in the insulated world of competitive bodybuilding—I don’t know, I’ve never competed.
Most dudes who lift weights, however, don’t have any intention of competing—they just want to look better naked, get a little stronger, and—bonus!—get fitter and healthier in the process.
The irony in the fact that a seemingly health-enhancing activity, at its highest levels, actually causes people to drop dead is pretty evident to me.
ANDREW HEFFERNAN
I owe everyone an apology. I did remember Weider claiming the health benefits of bodybuilding, I just didn’t think anyone believed what he was saying.
I didn’t start lifting weights until my sophomore year in college. After a year or so I looked through different muscle mags. Weider’s definitely had the best pictures and elaborate workouts. I tried one showing Sergio Oliva doing arms. He did 6 different bicep exercises and 6 different triceps exercises, super-setting them for 6 sets of 8 reps. That was 72 total sets. I got a great pump after 24 of the 72 sets. The remaining 48 sets I drained all the blood out of my arms, which felt like noodles when I finished. That was the end of me believing anything within the pages of Weider mags. He was promoting magazines, supplements, and his brand. Why would I believe he promoted health?
And I was lifting all along with the aim of competing. So it wasn’t very long to realize that bodybuilding was about building muscle and not optimizing health. I was in constant search of the “holy grail” of bodybuilding. No one who didn’t lift weights talked about lifting weights that I could tolerate listening to.
By the mid 1970’s the gym that I trained only consulted Iron Man Magazine for training advice. And the gym owner bought all his equipment from that which was advertised in Iron Man. We considered Weider magazines a total joke.
But once again: I apologize.
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I was an observer of a powerlifting team in the early 1980’s. I stumbled on their gym by accident and could not believe what I was seeing. They had an unlimited source for anabolic steroids both oral and intramuscular and had been using well before I arrived on the scene. Although prescribing anabolic steroids was still legal I never got involved in writing any prescriptions, but these guys would walk into this physician’s office with a grocery list of what they wanted, drop a urine sample, pay cash and get the prescriptions they wanted.
I moved multiple times since 1986 but many of these guys who were untested state champions and nationally ranked powerlifters consumed enormous amounts of testosterone. There were maybe 15 of these gentlemen. Most injected two or three different medications three or four times per week when cycling, not to mention taking at least three oral medications on a daily basis. Off cycle to them meant they were taking just a few D-bol a day. They exhibited signs of liver failure(steroid induced cirrhosis), hypertension, atrial fibrillation, and myocardial infarction. I chose to not go down that rabbit hole with them.
So, almost 40 years later I have seen some of these then 20 somethings died prematurely. None passed away until the mid or late 1990’s and I did not follow their life styles nor did I have much knowledge of their family histories. What I did know is at the time they were using these huge amounts of steroids they felt 8 foot tall and bullet proof and did not care about any long term consequences. But in their late 30’s or 40’s they succumbed to cardiovascular disease, cancer, suicide and substance abuse.
Is there a cause effect relationship here? I can’t say for sure but I definitely feel there is an association between there drug use and their morbidity and early mortality. But, at least half of these guys are healthy and happy with no apparent later life deleterious effects.
Ironically, I am a retired surgeon, almost 75 years old who has been on HRT for the last 10 years or so. My testosterone levels are monitored by my geriatrician and I inject a prescribed amount every two weeks. I could immediately tell the difference in multiple parameters once I started the therapy. My gym time is much more productive and general strength is well above what I see for my unmedicated age group. Is there direct causation? Not sure, but I think there is a real association. I recuperated from my total knee replacement quickly.If you ask me why I take testosterone, I will tell you, “Because I think it works.” There is no reason my testosterone level should be 100 ng/dl when it could be 800 ng/dl. Just because testosterone levels decrease with age doesn’t mean we have to tolerate it. No one accepts low bone density anymore just because it historically decreases with age. There is a new definition of normal out there.
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