[quote]bb85 wrote:
I don’t post on here…ever. But for the BB flat benchers out there, check out the attached picture.
Not that BB flat Bench is evil, but because of ego, incorrect form (the Bodybuilder “iron-cross”, arms-out bottom position as opposed to powerlfiting style) and a whole slew of other things, it is an EXTREMELY dangerous exercise for most people.[/quote]
Yes, but that guy tore it doing flat dumbbell press!
I prefer dumbbells. Had maxed out them in my gym but have recently taken to gaffa taping plates to the sides. People look at me strangely but they may be mistaking me for someone who gives a shit.
I have heard alot about how BB bench pressing is bad for shoulder joints, but how do you guys feel about BB incline presses (like 30-40 degrees), do you think those are better for the shoulder joints?
[quote]buckrice wrote:
From Chad Waterbury’s most recent article:
“… I don’t care how long a heavy, traditional barbell bench press has been part of the iron game, it sucks for your shoulder joints. I haven’t had a client do a full range of motion barbell bench press in three years. I’m happy to report that this change has allowed me to spend more time training them, and less time treating their soft tissue injuries.” (My emphasis added on full ROM.)
I think this says a lot. You may never convince a powerlifter to ditch the BB bench press, but I’m guessing the majority of us are probably better off considering alternatives (at least limited range, like board or floor presses).[/quote]
Chad wrote another article about two months ago along the same lines:
In this, he wrote:
"I’ve already trounced on the barbell bench press, but I have one more thing left to say about it: it’s not a great chest builder.
The same can be said for a dumbbell bench press, even though I like the exercise for many other purposes. The reason both of these “chest” exercises fail to add meat is because neither adequately challenges horizontal adduction â?? the movement your pectoral muscles is designed to do.
When you press a barbell or dumbbell while lying on your back, the line of resistance from the weights is going straight down. In order to challenge horizontal adduction, the line of resistance must be out at an angle, around 45 degrees relative to your torso. You can make up for part of this shortcoming by pressing dumbbells up and out at an angle, but even this modification might still keep a flat-chested guy from building the pecs his girlfriend desires.
That’s why my choice is the standing chest press with cables. The cables, when set correctly, will provide resistance against horizontal adduction throughout the entire movement. Besides, this chest exercise was a favorite of Arnold Schwarzenegger, and who can argue with that?"
I found this really interesting, because I’d been doing nothing but BB bench press for about a year at this point (kind of an experiment), and, in fact, my chest had totally deflated. People noticed and commented. So, after reading Chad’s article, I switched to the standing chest press:
Literally, after just two workouts, my wife noticed and mentioned that my chest was looking better, and it’s continued getting bigger and better defined since then. I’m never doing a BB bench press again!!!
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I honestly think you could argue both sides. DBs will allow for the ancillary muscles to work as far as stabilization goes. Of course BB work will typically allow you to press more weight which will result in greater stress put on the secondary muscles as well… That’s a real doozie. I guess the best answer would be to incorporate both to some degree. If you do Flat BB and Inc DBs one week, do Flat DBs and Inc BB the next.
S
[/quote]
thats exactly what i do with every lift that you can use both BB and DB. flat bench, incl bench, OHP, SOHP, BOR, curls. i do both BB and DB of each, i just change the order week to week.
[quote]speakman wrote:
buckrice wrote:
From Chad Waterbury’s most recent article:
“… I don’t care how long a heavy, traditional barbell bench press has been part of the iron game, it sucks for your shoulder joints. I haven’t had a client do a full range of motion barbell bench press in three years. I’m happy to report that this change has allowed me to spend more time training them, and less time treating their soft tissue injuries.” (My emphasis added on full ROM.)
I think this says a lot. You may never convince a powerlifter to ditch the BB bench press, but I’m guessing the majority of us are probably better off considering alternatives (at least limited range, like board or floor presses).
Chad wrote another article about two months ago along the same lines:
In this, he wrote:
"I’ve already trounced on the barbell bench press, but I have one more thing left to say about it: it’s not a great chest builder.
The same can be said for a dumbbell bench press, even though I like the exercise for many other purposes. The reason both of these “chest” exercises fail to add meat is because neither adequately challenges horizontal adduction Ã?¢?? the movement your pectoral muscles is designed to do.
When you press a barbell or dumbbell while lying on your back, the line of resistance from the weights is going straight down. In order to challenge horizontal adduction, the line of resistance must be out at an angle, around 45 degrees relative to your torso. You can make up for part of this shortcoming by pressing dumbbells up and out at an angle, but even this modification might still keep a flat-chested guy from building the pecs his girlfriend desires.
That’s why my choice is the standing chest press with cables. The cables, when set correctly, will provide resistance against horizontal adduction throughout the entire movement. Besides, this chest exercise was a favorite of Arnold Schwarzenegger, and who can argue with that?"
I found this really interesting, because I’d been doing nothing but BB bench press for about a year at this point (kind of an experiment), and, in fact, my chest had totally deflated. People noticed and commented. So, after reading Chad’s article, I switched to the standing chest press:
Literally, after just two workouts, my wife noticed and mentioned that my chest was looking better, and it’s continued getting bigger and better defined since then. I’m never doing a BB bench press again!!![/quote]
i don’t know, the theory and methodology behind it seem interesting. Was this truly one of
Arnold’s favorites??? Come on, i’ve never seen vids of him and Franco banging these out. I’m sorry i don’t see real size happening as a direct result of utilizing this exercise. I’ll add them on a chest day just to see, they might be an accessory exercise but not a staple. A women using a cable station doesn’t turn on my GREEN LIGHT for GROWTH signal.
Are you friend’s w/ Chad and just pumping his shit out there as a means of free advertisement?
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
speakman wrote:
buckrice wrote:
From Chad Waterbury’s most recent article:
“… I don’t care how long a heavy, traditional barbell bench press has been part of the iron game, it sucks for your shoulder joints. I haven’t had a client do a full range of motion barbell bench press in three years. I’m happy to report that this change has allowed me to spend more time training them, and less time treating their soft tissue injuries.” (My emphasis added on full ROM.)
I think this says a lot. You may never convince a powerlifter to ditch the BB bench press, but I’m guessing the majority of us are probably better off considering alternatives (at least limited range, like board or floor presses).
Chad wrote another article about two months ago along the same lines:
In this, he wrote:
"I’ve already trounced on the barbell bench press, but I have one more thing left to say about it: it’s not a great chest builder.
The same can be said for a dumbbell bench press, even though I like the exercise for many other purposes. The reason both of these “chest” exercises fail to add meat is because neither adequately challenges horizontal adduction Ã??Ã?¢?? the movement your pectoral muscles is designed to do.
When you press a barbell or dumbbell while lying on your back, the line of resistance from the weights is going straight down. In order to challenge horizontal adduction, the line of resistance must be out at an angle, around 45 degrees relative to your torso. You can make up for part of this shortcoming by pressing dumbbells up and out at an angle, but even this modification might still keep a flat-chested guy from building the pecs his girlfriend desires.
That’s why my choice is the standing chest press with cables. The cables, when set correctly, will provide resistance against horizontal adduction throughout the entire movement. Besides, this chest exercise was a favorite of Arnold Schwarzenegger, and who can argue with that?"
I found this really interesting, because I’d been doing nothing but BB bench press for about a year at this point (kind of an experiment), and, in fact, my chest had totally deflated. People noticed and commented. So, after reading Chad’s article, I switched to the standing chest press:
Literally, after just two workouts, my wife noticed and mentioned that my chest was looking better, and it’s continued getting bigger and better defined since then. I’m never doing a BB bench press again!!!
i don’t know, the theory and methodology behind it seem interesting. Was this truly one of
Arnold’s favorites??? Come on, i’ve never seen vids of him and Franco banging these out. I’m sorry i don’t see real size happening as a direct result of utilizing this exercise. I’ll add them on a chest day just to see, they might be an accessory exercise but not a staple. A women using a cable station doesn’t turn on my GREEN LIGHT for GROWTH signal.
Are you friend’s w/ Chad and just pumping his shit out there as a means of free advertisement?
[/quote]
I don’t see how you could use enough weight doing that. The girl has a nice ass though.
[quote]Misterhamper wrote:
I have heard alot about how BB bench pressing is bad for shoulder joints, but how do you guys feel about BB incline presses (like 30-40 degrees), do you think those are better for the shoulder joints?[/quote]
I think the angle at the armpit between the humerus and the torso is key (someone correct me if I’m wrong). The larger the angle (elbows flared out), the more stress is applied to the shoulder. It seems the elbows want to flare out less when doing inclines (or declines for that matter), so they’re probably a better choice than your standard flat bench.
I guess we should be saying that bodybuilder-style benching is hard on the shoulders, whereas powerlifter-style benching will allow you to keep your shoulders in their sockets when moving crazy weight (provided that your technique is solid, of course).
I’m not gonna say anything new here, but I guess I’ll put in my 2 cents. I think Flat BB bench is worthless for the chest, but I use it (as part of a main lift in 5/3/1) to get my general strength up in the chest, delts, and tris. I think Incline BB bench is much more effective for actually putting on size for the chest. I can’t comment on decline BB bench since I haven’t done that in a few years. As for size, nothing beats DB bench for incline, flat, and decline. I particularly like flat DB bench, I really feel that in my pecs.
How is the “standing chest press” essentially different from a cable crossover? Both will challenge horizontal adduction, but not with sufficient weight. As Chad even commented himself, you can do DB bench, pressing upwards at an angle and bringing the weights together.
As for the general issue of BB vs. DB pressing, some people, no doubt, are able to build impressive chests through BB pressing; however, I don’t think that’s the majority of natural trainers. For me at any rate, I just don’t get great pec stimulation from BB–I’m too delt dominant of a presser with fixed weights and movement tracks. With independent weights/movement tracks, using DB’s your dominant side can’t make up for your weaknesses on your other side. Further, by not being locked into a set movement pattern I find I get better pec activation and less shoulder /delt dominance. With DB I also avoid shoulder pain/injury issues, get a better stretch, produce good strength increases, and get generally thicker denser muscular development in my upper body.
When I hurt shoulder from BB BP, I switched to DB BP. When my shoulder recovered, I tried BB BP, and my max went up a lot. I wouldn’t say DBs were the only thing that contributed to the increased weight. I’m sure the pull-ups and dips helped a lot through the lats and triceps. My BB BP is certainly higher, but that’s to be expected. When I hit a plateau or have an injury, I swap for the alternative. DBs are hard to get in setup position when the weight starts to get heavy where forearm size starts to restrict it which is why I do hammer curls. Almost every guy I see benching with BB is disproportionately lifting with the dominant side first. DBs should help eliminate the strong/weak side I would think.
Most people aren’t going to say that DB is superior to BB press. However I believe we can all agree, that DB’s will build superior chest development. Also some of us have shoulder issues with the BB, have none with the DB’s because there is no impingement.
[quote]on edge wrote:
cyruseven75 wrote:
speakman wrote:
buckrice wrote:
From Chad Waterbury’s most recent article:
“… I don’t care how long a heavy, traditional barbell bench press has been part of the iron game, it sucks for your shoulder joints. I haven’t had a client do a full range of motion barbell bench press in three years. I’m happy to report that this change has allowed me to spend more time training them, and less time treating their soft tissue injuries.” (My emphasis added on full ROM.)
I think this says a lot. You may never convince a powerlifter to ditch the BB bench press, but I’m guessing the majority of us are probably better off considering alternatives (at least limited range, like board or floor presses).
Chad wrote another article about two months ago along the same lines:
In this, he wrote:
"I’ve already trounced on the barbell bench press, but I have one more thing left to say about it: it’s not a great chest builder.
The same can be said for a dumbbell bench press, even though I like the exercise for many other purposes. The reason both of these “chest” exercises fail to add meat is because neither adequately challenges horizontal adduction Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? the movement your pectoral muscles is designed to do.
When you press a barbell or dumbbell while lying on your back, the line of resistance from the weights is going straight down. In order to challenge horizontal adduction, the line of resistance must be out at an angle, around 45 degrees relative to your torso. You can make up for part of this shortcoming by pressing dumbbells up and out at an angle, but even this modification might still keep a flat-chested guy from building the pecs his girlfriend desires.
That’s why my choice is the standing chest press with cables. The cables, when set correctly, will provide resistance against horizontal adduction throughout the entire movement. Besides, this chest exercise was a favorite of Arnold Schwarzenegger, and who can argue with that?"
I found this really interesting, because I’d been doing nothing but BB bench press for about a year at this point (kind of an experiment), and, in fact, my chest had totally deflated. People noticed and commented. So, after reading Chad’s article, I switched to the standing chest press:
Literally, after just two workouts, my wife noticed and mentioned that my chest was looking better, and it’s continued getting bigger and better defined since then. I’m never doing a BB bench press again!!!
i don’t know, the theory and methodology behind it seem interesting. Was this truly one of
Arnold’s favorites??? Come on, i’ve never seen vids of him and Franco banging these out. I’m sorry i don’t see real size happening as a direct result of utilizing this exercise. I’ll add them on a chest day just to see, they might be an accessory exercise but not a staple. A women using a cable station doesn’t turn on my GREEN LIGHT for GROWTH signal.
Are you friend’s w/ Chad and just pumping his shit out there as a means of free advertisement?
I don’t see how you could use enough weight doing that. The girl has a nice ass though.[/quote]
I had the two exact thoughts…although I thought ‘nice ass’ first
We have a seated cable press that lets me load up the weight without struggling to keep your body in position but it’s a bitch to get the handles in position without straining my shoulder. The HS flat bench would seem to track similarly as the cables and you can load it up…my favorite.
I find for me that Im too delt and tri dominant to get enough stimulation for pec growth with BB pressing. I use for general strength, but look to incline DB press and flies for growth. I have tried the standing chest press as part of CWs Huge in a Hurry with some good results. It is possible to use enough weight on the standing press if you set up right. The chick in the video has a stance that is way too narrow front to back. If you get nice and low and lean into the weight like a solid Karate front stance, you can brace yourself to push some good weight.
Just thought i’d mention, it makes no sense when people say “bb for strength, DBs for chest”, when they use the bb bench to measure strength. That’s like saying, the more you bb bench, the more you can bb bench. Well duh.
Bb bench does engage more muscle fibres on the whole though, therefore the huge weights involved. It’s just not a mainly chest exercise which a lot of people like to believe. A great “mass builder” doesn’t mean all or even most of the mass goes to the chest.
[quote]giterdone wrote:
on edge wrote:
cyruseven75 wrote:
speakman wrote:
buckrice wrote:
From Chad Waterbury’s most recent article:
“… I don’t care how long a heavy, traditional barbell bench press has been part of the iron game, it sucks for your shoulder joints. I haven’t had a client do a full range of motion barbell bench press in three years. I’m happy to report that this change has allowed me to spend more time training them, and less time treating their soft tissue injuries.” (My emphasis added on full ROM.)
I think this says a lot. You may never convince a powerlifter to ditch the BB bench press, but I’m guessing the majority of us are probably better off considering alternatives (at least limited range, like board or floor presses).
Chad wrote another article about two months ago along the same lines:
In this, he wrote:
"I’ve already trounced on the barbell bench press, but I have one more thing left to say about it: it’s not a great chest builder.
The same can be said for a dumbbell bench press, even though I like the exercise for many other purposes. The reason both of these “chest” exercises fail to add meat is because neither adequately challenges horizontal adduction Ã???Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? the movement your pectoral muscles is designed to do.
When you press a barbell or dumbbell while lying on your back, the line of resistance from the weights is going straight down. In order to challenge horizontal adduction, the line of resistance must be out at an angle, around 45 degrees relative to your torso. You can make up for part of this shortcoming by pressing dumbbells up and out at an angle, but even this modification might still keep a flat-chested guy from building the pecs his girlfriend desires.
That’s why my choice is the standing chest press with cables. The cables, when set correctly, will provide resistance against horizontal adduction throughout the entire movement. Besides, this chest exercise was a favorite of Arnold Schwarzenegger, and who can argue with that?"
I found this really interesting, because I’d been doing nothing but BB bench press for about a year at this point (kind of an experiment), and, in fact, my chest had totally deflated. People noticed and commented. So, after reading Chad’s article, I switched to the standing chest press:
Literally, after just two workouts, my wife noticed and mentioned that my chest was looking better, and it’s continued getting bigger and better defined since then. I’m never doing a BB bench press again!!!
i don’t know, the theory and methodology behind it seem interesting. Was this truly one of
Arnold’s favorites??? Come on, i’ve never seen vids of him and Franco banging these out. I’m sorry i don’t see real size happening as a direct result of utilizing this exercise. I’ll add them on a chest day just to see, they might be an accessory exercise but not a staple. A women using a cable station doesn’t turn on my GREEN LIGHT for GROWTH signal.
Are you friend’s w/ Chad and just pumping his shit out there as a means of free advertisement?
I don’t see how you could use enough weight doing that. The girl has a nice ass though.
I had the two exact thoughts…although I thought ‘nice ass’ first
We have a seated cable press that lets me load up the weight without struggling to keep your body in position but it’s a bitch to get the handles in position without straining my shoulder. The HS flat bench would seem to track similarly as the cables and you can load it up…my favorite.[/quote]
Would not it be more affective put a bench in the middle of a cross-over, and bench press with the cables down?
The force is still coming 45 degrees and you can load much more weight than it would be standing like CW proposed…
I don’t see how you could use enough weight to do your chest justic in that split position? Standing upright would be as much of a concern as ‘pressing’.
I think DBS in a neutral grip are better, as it allows me to adduct at the shoulder which works the chest nicely, and it doesn’t fuck up my shoulder at all.
[quote]Peteconnor wrote:
Just thought i’d mention, it makes no sense when people say “bb for strength, DBs for chest”, when they use the bb bench to measure strength. That’s like saying, the more you bb bench, the more you can bb bench. Well duh.
Bb bench does engage more muscle fibres on the whole though, therefore the huge weights involved. It’s just not a mainly chest exercise which a lot of people like to believe. A great “mass builder” doesn’t mean all or even most of the mass goes to the chest.[/quote]
All depends on your goal !?
say youre a bodybuilder with a laggin chest then DB would be nice
Say youre a bodybuilder with a laggin tricep then BB would be nice
Say youre an athlete with a jacked up shoulder then DB would be nice
say your a powerlifter that competes with BB then BB would be nice
You gotta choose the right one for your goal !?
but dont understand this as only do one… its good to mix it up. but ive never had great succes with the BB bench even though i lift 25% more than the rest of my team my throw was rubbish…
now i changed to DBs and my throw has become good again…
the part about mass. i am thinking of it that there are so many muscles working together to do a bench press that maybe they just dont get stimulated enough to evolve so much ? i am just thinking out loud this has no proof !!
[quote]Onzs wrote:
Would not it be more affective put a bench in the middle of a cross-over, and bench press with the cables down?
The force is still coming 45 degrees and you can load much more weight than it would be standing like CW proposed…
[/quote]
I have only DB benched a couple times my whole time I’ve been lifting weights. Why? Cause I train alone in my basement and those couple times I had access to commercial gym.
The thing with reg. bench I think is that just doing too much with that wider grip your shoulders will get fucked if you don’t care of them and if keep doing a whole lotta presses without the right amount of volume of pulling.
A lot of people are guilty of this, even myself.
Compared to my arms, back, and shoulders. My chest lags and in reality SUCKS.
I also must say this last couple months is the first time I did incline benches.
Just TONIGHT I bought 100lb DB’s, I know they aren’t gonig to be heavy enough but I am pumped to use them.
I recommend people change their grip closer for benching as well.
I’m ALL about BB flat benching, right now my shoulder is bugging me a little bit from too much volume of pressing and just too much punchnig for boxing.
Anwyays though I’m pumped to see results of db pressing over the next few months.
