DB Hammer

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
81

davidian,
I wrote a rather lengthy reply to you that has gotten lost in cyberspace. So I’ll try again, although it won’t be as thorough.

Somethings I have noticed, personally coming from a WSB background

  1. DB is about bringing up your weakness. WSB is also about the same thing. Find your weakness, attakck it, and your lifts will go up.

  2. Recovery. In this sense I have noticed fewer joint aches. I think it is three fold.
    A. AREG limits volume to your current capacity. at a 6% drop off you train EOD on an upper/lower split. This also allows for more time away from the gym. After a workout with a 12% drop you get a whole week off before you attack the same muscle groups
    B. Always hammering heavy weights takes it’s toll. Many WSB guys take an “unloading” week. With DB’s system you do get a week’s rest every few weeks, plus you are only attacking your weakness. This means that you may spend time away from lifting heavy weights. You may speend more time bringing up strength-speed and speed-strength. This will allow for the trauma accumulated doing ME work to recover.
    C. Spending more time training the weakest, poorest biomechanical position. This will hela save your shoulders in the bench press. Prevent back injuries in the squat.

  3. Recovery. Again, yes. Back to position A. You will be spending less time in the gym, and more time healing. this means faster progress. As Charlie Francis says, “less IS more” You get 4 days rest between workouts and every fifth worout you take a week off (for the specific muscle group). In this sense recovery is not preventing injuries, but ensuring you have enough time in between workouts to optimize the supercompensation process.

There was more but I forget

82

Davidian,

Squattin600 touched on a lot of key points so I’ll address your question from a different angle…

After having trained via the Westside method for six months or so in the past (and coming from someone who has literally tried every program or system in existence) I will tell you to “take the plunge”- Dietrich’s system will not let you down!

I think I know where your question is coming from because when I dabbled with Westside I found that my squat went up a little bit but my bench actually went down. As a side note, I visited Louie and trained with him just to make sure I was doing it “right”- so please save me the “no one trains Westside but the guys at westside” quote, thanks. I’ve heard this same story re-versed in same form or another many times before; ‘The westside program has helped my squat but not my bench.’

Take Todd Hamer, DB gave him 30 lbs on his RAW bench in 3 weeks and when he resorted back to Westside training he noted that his board press was at a 20 lb PR. Then he went back to training Westside, for reasons I’ll never understand, and lost everything he gained during that 3 week period.

The philosophy is simple, get strong in the stretch and then learn how to use your equipment. I know it’s tempting to get sucked into equipment training, or short range training for that matter due to the fact you can handle heavier weights. After I benched 280 lbs more than my RAW bench with a borrowed double-denim which I slipped on like a starched t-shirt, I’ll admit that I got the bug to train more and more short range lifts, order up a bench shirt that actually fit, and see what I could do in gear.

But that is one thing I see powerlifters do wrong. Again, get the muscle strong in extension (‘the stretch’), carry it over to gear and short range lifts and then repeat the cycle as necessary. Fight the bug or you will end up fighting off injury!

Another major problem, aside from the lack of AREG, is the creed to “go heavy or go home”. This couldn’t be further from the truth. After the strength template fails you then you need to train a few weeks “off” using the power template. When you come back to the strength template it may take you a few sessions (as your neuro-duration abilities turn back on) but I guarantee you that you will smash your old personal bests!

Again, this is another problem powerlifters make. They think they have to train the squat, bench and deadlift heavy all in the same training block- “because it’s sport specific”, right? Then how come we don’t see more powerlifters training the squat, then the bench, then the deadlift in the same session? This is another problem powerlifters make. You shouldn’t do it all the time, but if you never do it then you will never be fully prepared for a meet.

If you look at a force curve of a max lift- especially if you under stand stress-strain diagrams- then you know that “strength” is the area under the curve. If we simplify this to a rectangle then area is base times height, right? The height of your box is how much force you put out, the width of your box is how long you sustain this force output. Dietrich calls these attributes MAG and DUR for the strength athlete.

Always center your goals around getting a bigger rectangle! Sometimes you emphasize height, other times you emphasize width, other times you set the stone for greater height and/or width developments. Another way to go about this (aside from the power template) is to incorporate EMS into DB’s basic strength template. Alternate sessions of absolute-strength and strength-endurance, select which methods and movements you need to develop as an individual lifter (you may need to reference “The Sports Book” for help here?), and let the EMS work help to increase the size of your ‘strength-rectangle’.
Peace,
Brad

83

Brad

285lbs over raw bench with the shirt? Amazing. I didn’t know it was possible. I’ve been thinking about DB’s methods. I’ll go with the powerlifting for now. It’s not like I’m training for sports. How would you set up modified westside using DB’s methods? Duration on Mon and Wed for lower and upper respectively and Mag for friday and sunday for lower and upper respectively. what exercises would you highly recommend for me to incorporate into the template? For how long? Switich to Mag and rate cycle? Back and forth like that? what about “accessory” , “supplementary” and pre/rehab exercises? What about warm ups? What exactly does DB with his clients for warm ups?

84

hey guys i don’t know too much about this guy but what you guys are saying is intriguing. Anyone know where i can buy his book online cheap?

85

You can buy his book online, but it ain’t cheap. It runs about $40. You can go to dave tates site (elitefts.com) or DB’s site (inno-sport.net).

Before the book though, read kelly baggets article under inno-sport exclusives, it’s called inno-sport basics or something like that. I’d suggest printing it out, and reading it multiple times. Then Read over the QnA’s, if they are not down yet, Then I’d pregress to the book. His stuff is tough, but IMO worth the effort.

I’d also like to address his making things “over complicated”. Once you work through two training cycles, or so, it really becomes more second nature. It just seems complicated and daunting at the beginning. In the end it’s rather simple.

86

Guys, the book is so over-complicated and un-intelligible it’s almost like a parody, and I still think it might ACTUALLY be a parody.

Unless you’re one of those people who simply must have every book that exists, save yourself the trouble.

Just take my word on this one? even if you TRIED to write an absurdly over-complicated and un-intelligible training book just as a goof, there’s no way it’d even compare to this one.

87

To me, the sign of a good strength coach is someone who can make a complicated subject simple. For example, CT, CW, Dave Tate, Coach Staley, coach Defranco, Don Alessi, are all very intelligent guys. Yet their articles are very understandable and they help me a lot. That is the sign of good, intelligent strength coaches!
That’s just my 2 cents.
Steel

88

Interesting remarks about DB’s book!

I understand his use of terminology but that is how he relates the material. It does require multiple readings to grasp the information better. I think most of us have read through Supertraining a few times? With any writing you want it to challenge you in your views. In this case training methods and physiological theories among other things. Not something that is a quick read but a necessity of reference.

Credit to DB, his recent writings are making it easier to understand his methods and apply them. Note: If you cannot grasp these then there is no hope for you! Hs email is always the best source but I have come across many who have applied his system with success and minimal if not nil communication with him. So that just leaves his book and articles. In fact, there is a basketball player in the U.K. that applied his system for his book to increase his vertical 9 inches. Good results? Depends on how you look at it, but nothing to scoff at! If someone such as him could train himself then intellegible coaches out there should have no problem “disecting” this information.

You can’t judge a book by its cover and just leave it at that. Nothing is going to be handed to you. You might actually have to dig deeper for understanding and explore all options. My opinion is there is nothing overcomplicated or un-intelligable about this or any of his information.

I would like to hear more concrete analysis of the book from charles staley if you could spare the time. Maybe this will help someone with issues to be explored before buying it? Anything erroneous you feel is in the book or lacking as well as application of the system as a whole?

It seems everytime I ask someone to do this I get nothing but angst and chicken scratch in return. Yes I am currently using his system with great success. 155lb bodyweight/ benched 350lbs+rawand vertical 37", have yet to electronically time myself sprinting. I am looking for better results so if someone could point me in the right direction then I would be more than willing to explore other options.

Good to see different experiences, opinions, and thoughts on this thread.

Jeremy

89

[quote]Tungsten wrote:
Brad

285lbs over raw bench with the shirt? Amazing. I didn’t know it was possible. I’ve been thinking about DB’s methods. I’ll go with the powerlifting for now. It’s not like I’m training for sports. How would you set up modified westside using DB’s methods? Duration on Mon and Wed for lower and upper respectively and Mag for friday and sunday for lower and upper respectively. what exercises would you highly recommend for me to incorporate into the template? For how long? Switich to Mag and rate cycle? Back and forth like that? what about “accessory” , “supplementary” and pre/rehab exercises? What about warm ups? What exactly does DB with his clients for warm ups? [/quote]

Tungsten,
I’m no powerlifter and I don’t claim to be, but that was my experience when I borrowed a buddies double denim. Maybe I just got lucky? But when I was at a powerlifting meet about a year ago I was in the warmup room talking to some of the lifters. One guy was squeezing into his Inzer Phenom (single ply poly) shirt and I asked him if it was true; Are people really getting 150 lbs out of that shirt? He said “at least…I get 160 to 180”. I also talked to a powerlifter recently who said he gets at least “mid-3’s” out of his shirt- meaning he gets at least 350 lbs out of his triple denim shirt.

What gear are you using? What are you getting out of your equipment?

Is powerlifting a “sport”? Then you can use his methods to train!

The rest of your questions are covered via the SuperSeven critical factors of his book and the information he presents on his site.

Peace,
Brad

90

I’m sorry, Charles, I’m going to have to go with Squattin600 and Jeremy on this one- it’s only as difficult as you make it out to be!

It only appears over-complicated at first because it’s an entirely different way of thinking. Unlike some of the training programs that any writer/coach can spit out, it’s a training system. This means that from his little book you could devise literally hundreds of thousands of training programs- probably EDT if you wanted!

As for it being “un-intelligible”, it turns out that a lot of the questions Mel Siff had regarding training DB had already answered!

I think you when you can take a 15 year old kid with the dedication to be the best and he can grasp the content of the book and reap greater results than his strength coach could give him then something is working.

The athletes and coaches that try to not to stray to far from their current belief system as they are reading the book are precisely the ones who have difficulty understanding the content, fail to get good results, and go on forums crying wolf.

Peace,
Brad

91

[quote]steel21 wrote:
To me, the sign of a good strength coach is someone who can make a complicated subject simple.[/quote]

Steel21,
Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought that the better coach was the one who got the better results!

I think that the better writer is the one who can make a complicated subject sound less complicated. I think that’s what you meant.

But if any of the above coaches you listed want to give me 30 lbs or more on my bench through internet consultations like DB did when he took a random athlete off a forum much like this then I am all for it!

I started DB’s system 4 years ago without even being able to lift my arms. 135 lbs in the bench felt like a truck was bearing down on me. This was because my baseball coach didn’t have knowledge of AREG so he threw my arm into shambles. I not only dodged surgery but DB has taken me to a 415 lbs bench and a 635 lbs squat (both RAW). All of the problems my previous coaches causes are now cured- I have nothing to complain about!

So if any coach wants to write me up a program and take my bench to 445 lbs or more in the next 3 weeks than I am game! No, I just didn’t finish trashing my system with a powerlifting meet…yes, I will do exactly what you say…no, I won’t get crappy sleep and nutrition before the post test…unlike DB’s original challenge athlete.

The only thing is…you can’t use any of DB’s methods. I want you to guess at how many sets I need, how many reps I need, what exercises I need, etc.

Until that day, I’m going to call good writers what they are and good coaches what they are.

The “SUJO” challenge is yours for the taking!

Peace,
Brad

92

Brad or Jeremy:

I just bought the book, and am attempting to decipher it (just kidding, although I will have to read it a few times). I have a simple question: how limited am I by not having a training partner(s)? I don’t particularly want one, either, but some of the stuff seems relatively dangerous and/or infeasible without numerous people there to assist.

93

[quote]dookie1481 wrote:
how limited am I by not having a training partner(s)?[/quote]

Dookie1481,
You need to round up some training partners! Not because you can’t safely train alone (I do it all the time) but because you will get better results with a group of dedicated individuals around you.

What methods or movements are you fearful of? You know that everything is individualized so you will be working within YOUR limits, right? The real danger comes from false application of the methods. As for spotting, set pins in a power rack. Get a countdown timer and whatever else you need for AREG application and you should be good to go.

Again, what are you fearful of?

Just like a 300 lb squatter shouldn’t adopt an 800 lb squatters loading parameters…stick to your abilities, use some common sense, and as long as you select from the list of options from each of the SuperSeven principles provided then you will see tremendous results, push injury to the wayside, and find what’s so damn funny about the way most people train in this day and age!

Peace,
Brad

94

Dookie,

I do just fine without one. I don’t use things like heavy eccentric squats and have had to work with the ISO’s but, in all it has worked just fine. I mainly use the speed-strength template so I do not run in to the need for those very much.

95

Life would be easier if we could all just keep rehashing Charlie Francis’ ideas and passing them off as our own…

Brad, im interested and book is ordered… ill get back to you. thank you for your response!

96

[quote]davidian wrote:
Life would be easier if we could all just keep rehashing Charlie Francis’ ideas and passing them off as our own…

Brad, im interested and book is ordered… ill get back to you. thank you for your response![/quote]

Davidian,
Please elaborate on your first statement…I haven’t the slightest idea of what you mean. Are you joking about the simplicity of his one-size-fits all training structure…or are you suggesting that CF’s stuff gets ripped off? If it’s the second one then I have a good idea of where you’re coming from! That guy rips everyone off, doesn’t he!!!

Sure, feel free to hit me up with some questions or feedback.

Peace,
Brad

97

[quote]Nuttall wrote:
dookie1481 wrote:
how limited am I by not having a training partner(s)?

Dookie1481,
You need to round up some training partners! Not because you can’t safely train alone (I do it all the time) but because you will get better results with a group of dedicated individuals around you.

What methods or movements are you fearful of? You know that everything is individualized so you will be working within YOUR limits, right? The real danger comes from false application of the methods. As for spotting, set pins in a power rack. Get a countdown timer and whatever else you need for AREG application and you should be good to go.

Again, what are you fearful of?

Just like a 300 lb squatter shouldn’t adopt an 800 lb squatters loading parameters…stick to your abilities, use some common sense, and as long as you select from the list of options from each of the SuperSeven principles provided then you will see tremendous results, push injury to the wayside, and find what’s so damn funny about the way most people train in this day and age!

Peace,
Brad[/quote]

  1. Yeah, I would lift better with stronger people around, and that will happen soon. I don’t want a partner, as I am pretty independant with this stuff.

  2. The issues I had with spotting were mostly related to the reactive and isometric stuff. Any ideas on how to use ISO without a spotter? Would a Smith Machine be sufficient for REA bench?

98

the Francis comment was directed at a different poster who replied to this thread.

I have the utmost respect for Francis, Brilliant coach, and gives out his information free of charge, and is always willing to help. More real world knowledge than 99.999999% of coaches on this planet.

99

I’ve been following this thread for a couple of days now, and have been very interested in the topic. I am a freelance S&C coach who works primarily high school athletes. I’ve begun to apply some of DB’s principles to my athletes training, and there results have been fantastic. All of them across the board have gotten stronger and faster and in a short amount of time.

I recently PM’ed Brad w/ a question I had regarding DB’s EMS protocol, and he asked me to share my own experience. I am a 6’2 265 pound man who just finished playing football. I recently had a couple of Arena football tryouts, and asked DB for help in designing a routine. Well, long story short, I ran a 4.45 second 40 yard dash @ a bodyweight of just over 260 pounds. THis was my best time regardless of bodyweight.

100

Driven, just out of interest, what times were you running before using DB’s methods?