We have fallen so far from Jim’s grace it’s little wonder why he has forsaken us.
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Fair enough. I know he doesn’t believe in that. If the problem is being weak all-over I don’t see it as a deal breaker if the supplemental is different from the main lift. I just understand it not to be a necessity. Carries over better to my sport needs so for me it’s not a question I have to spend any time thinking about personally.
Maybe OP understands from our discourse that he can, of he wants to, follow what Dave said and still operate within the confines of 531.
I’m not sure I got what I was looking for but I have gotten some great ideas how I could change how I have been looking at the templates and possibly enhance my training. For example, I have been thinking inside the box. Squat the 3 sets of 5 then squat with the supplemental (FSL,bbb, ect) and then assistance of push, pull, core/single leg work. All assistance work was one exercise so I would do sets of tri push downs till I reached the 25-100 reps. Now though I’m going to try to do a supplemental lift other than the main movement and different lifts for the assistance like suggested.
What’s funny is that’s actually what CTs neurotype thing kind of was. Basically a “do the type of training that you like/are geared for instead of the ‘best’ program”
I think he gummed it up too much with the neurotransmitter talk and now his forum is an unreadable wasteland to me.
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This scheme looks like extreme over complication that only the top 0.1% athletes need to worry about
Just remember that just because you could do something, doesn’t mean you should. You would need a good reason to use a different lift for supplemental, like a proven history that that lift did more for your main move than just doing the main move.
Yes that makes sense but there have been a few key points that have been made that reflect what my training has been missing. When it comes to the 5x5 work using a supplemental lift I think would be worth trying as one it keeps things different and interesting and two it’s going to be hard. I hate front squats but maybe it’s time to do them, see if they help build my squat. If you don’t experiment how will you ever know. Another point that was hit home was assistance work can be many different things not just one. I’ve been trying to switch things up but when it comes to assistance I do banded tri push downs for example and try to get at least 50. I’ve had to get a stronger band and all that but maybe I need to do other things. I know there are times when I finished one assistance exercise and finished the workout because I couldn’t do that assistance exercise anymore and not hit my rep number. Yes I know I can have off days and not hit the number but I also know I could have done another exercise and hot that total reps with ease. Most assistance work is in the 50-100 reps in many of the templates I do and I try to just hit 50. Part of that is time but another part is by the time I finish an exercise I’m done. A good example would be chin ups. With a band I can get 5-8 reps but that only lasts so long before I’m sore and can’t continue. I might be able to get 25 if I pace myself and limit the reps to 5 reps. Normally I would just say ok pull assistance is done but now I don’t have to worry about that and I can focus on day three exercises with three sets of 8-12 reps. If I try it and I find it doesn’t work I at least know that’s not it.
Another part of this is in the past I’ve done different programs. I started with starting strength got burnt out and found barbell medicine. I had an bench that was stalled and I used one of there templates that had some fun programming in it. The thing that I found was for whatever reason that template pushed my bench up. Was it the added curls or the banded overload work that did it or was it just the extra benching in the program, I don’t know but maybe that’s part of the key to using supplemental lifts with the 5x5 for me.
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I think experimenting with different approaches has value, as long as you’re making sure you can objectively measure success or failure and you aren’t just doing shit because it looks fun. I would try changing one thing per cycle and see what works for you.
The comedy here is that there is a certain neurotype that, in and of itself, places value ON neurotyping and a certain neurotype that, by it’s nature, considers it bunk. So already, the value of it is going to be limited, and then among those that place value on it, there will be some that can actually make USE of that info, while others will just obsess and spin their wheels.
Kinda like the whole “you can only be hypnotized if you think you can”. I read about the neurotypes and wonder why dudes want to be given permission to train.
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What does @T3hPwnisher think about this Daves idea that after supplemental work in the main movement or variation, all assistance is done bodybuilding style “pump it till its purple” with all the dropsets, supersets and all that bro-ish methodology?
That approach can definitely work
What is your prefered approach to assistance?
I don’t have one. Perhaps I haven’t expressed it well enough here, but I do not think assistance work is important. My quote is that it contributes to 10% of your success… The main and supplemental work are the drivers of results.
Now, it still needs to get DONE. NOT doing it is the big sin, but beyond that…
I’ll do single set rest pauses, I’ll do circuits, I’ll include the assistance work in a conditioning workout, I’ll make it something I do through out the day, I’ll do giant sets (usually including it in between sets of main work), I’ll split it up and do a 2 a day where the main work is done in the AM and the assistance in the PM, etc etc. Picking just ONE way to do it is a good way to get stagnant.
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By success, are you specifically referring to success in strength sports (e.g. powerlifting, strongman) or success in general muscle size increase for a recreational lifter?
Swap “success” with the word “results”. I’m using them interchangeably there.
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