Dark Matter Found?

If true this is exciting stuff. Well if you are really nerdy I guess, but I think it’s cool because it moves dark matter from theory to potential fact. Note the word potential. It’s not a slam dunk case, but it moves us closer. And if true along with Dark Energy it also proves the once thought kook Liebniz correct in that their is no such thing as empty space. He called it monadology. I think it should be called that in his honor because everybody though he was off his rocker with this stuff. He theorized this stuff in the 17th century.

PAGING DR. MATT!!! Love to hear your thoughts and what you know about this stuff.

[quote]pat wrote:

If true this is exciting stuff. Well if you are really nerdy I guess, but I think it’s cool because it moves dark matter from theory to potential fact. Note the word potential. It’s not a slam dunk case, but it moves us closer. And if true along with Dark Energy it also proves the once thought kook Liebniz correct in that their is no such thing as empty space. He called it monadology. I think it should be called that in his honor because everybody though he was off his rocker with this stuff. He theorized this stuff in the 17th century.

PAGING DR. MATT!!! Love to hear your thoughts and what you know about this stuff.
[/quote]

It is EXTREMELY cool. Your comments about their being no such thing as empty space, reminds me of Lawrence Kraus and his speech about nothingness. Cool stuff.

I love this stuff.

It’s always the last place you look.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

If true this is exciting stuff. Well if you are really nerdy I guess, but I think it’s cool because it moves dark matter from theory to potential fact. Note the word potential. It’s not a slam dunk case, but it moves us closer. And if true along with Dark Energy it also proves the once thought kook Liebniz correct in that their is no such thing as empty space. He called it monadology. I think it should be called that in his honor because everybody though he was off his rocker with this stuff. He theorized this stuff in the 17th century.

PAGING DR. MATT!!! Love to hear your thoughts and what you know about this stuff.
[/quote]

It is EXTREMELY cool. Your comments about their being no such thing as empty space, reminds me of Lawrence Kraus and his speech about nothingness. Cool stuff.
[/quote]

He certainly stretches the definition of nothingness.

Newspaper failed abit though:

“…measuring data at a rate of 7 Gigabits per second… That’s equivalent to filling a 1Gb USB memory stick every second.”

Gb = Gigabit

Way before scientists even speculated DM, Ancient Occultists already knew about this…nothing new.
Our bodies themselves are mostly “Dark Matter” per se… we’re all mostly empty space when observed sub-atomically, but our natural eyes deceive us, we observe each other in society as being mostly “matter”, but that’s bullshit, we are not mostly material substance at all.

[quote]Karado wrote:
Way before scientists even speculated DM, Ancient Occultists already knew about this…nothing new.
Our bodies themselves are mostly “Dark Matter” per se… we’re all mostly empty space when observed sub-atomically, but our natural eyes deceive us, we observe each other in society as being mostly “matter”, but that’s bullshit, we are not mostly material substance at all.

[/quote]

Yes we are…Our bodies are 100% material. Even if most of the material is air…air is not nothing.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Karado wrote:
Way before scientists even speculated DM, Ancient Occultists already knew about this…nothing new.
Our bodies themselves are mostly “Dark Matter” per se… we’re all mostly empty space when observed sub-atomically, but our natural eyes deceive us, we observe each other in society as being mostly “matter”, but that’s bullshit, we are not mostly material substance at all.

[/quote]

Yes we are…Our bodies are 100% material. Even if most of the material is air…air is not nothing.[/quote]I always find it amusing, in a good way, that no matter what we human critters start talking about it always eventually winds up in the realm of the philosophical. What is “space”? Is it nothing? We call it that because it’s a useful linguistic vehicle for conveying the concept of a region of our 3 dimensional environment wherein we don’t have a way of empirically verifying that anyTHING actually is. From a Christian philosophical standpoint I am rather convinced, but not incurably so at this point, that “nothing” doesn’t exist. An intentional double negative. The very definition of “nothing”, at least one meaningful to us, does not and indeed I would contend, CANNOT exist. From my again Christian philosophical perspective, the fact of this invincible resistance to definition does not in itself preclude existence, as we are neither the source nor the arbiter of ANY of the data or ANY of the interpretation of the data concerning anyTHING, anyWHERE, anyTIME. The absolute triune God of historic Christianity being alone this source and arbiter and the fact of His intellect infinitely surpassing ours in every way, necessitates that He knows alotta stuff that we don’t, see? The definitive answer to this question will, at least in this life, probably remain unanswered for any but Him.

This, is in itself, in my view a relatively minor philosophical point governed by others, the direct pursuit of which is usually more useful and productive. However it’s implications for biblical epistemology are quite profound.

Kamui, I can hear you thinking. I hasten to add that no, this does not render me vulnerable to the charge of pantheism. A galactically huge discussion that we are best off not embarking upon at the moment since our last galactically huge discussion is still awaiting my next very belated response. Also, when you read this (because you will not be able to resist this thread), As part of a class assignment from my church I am charged with the task of conducting a short interview with an unbeliever concerning their theory of knowledge, God, ethics etc. I would like to honor you with being the subject of this interview. I shouldn’t have to tell you that you will receive the utmost respect. I will quote you verbatim and you will be given an exact copy of what I will be turning in. No pressure and if you don’t want to, that’s ok.

Oh yeah. This should elicit some predictable snap responses about how science may one day indeed answer this question. It may also elicit 1 or 2 from others (like maybe Kamui) who have chased this a bit further and who do realize the enormous barriers between us and any potential answer to the immediately self defeating question: “is there such a thing as NOthing”? (or space if defined the same way?)

Hmm, i don’t know.
How many dozens of pages does a short interview have ?

Just kidding.
I will email you some contacts information.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Karado wrote:
Way before scientists even speculated DM, Ancient Occultists already knew about this…nothing new.
Our bodies themselves are mostly “Dark Matter” per se… we’re all mostly empty space when observed sub-atomically, but our natural eyes deceive us, we observe each other in society as being mostly “matter”, but that’s bullshit, we are not mostly material substance at all.

[/quote]

Yes we are…Our bodies are 100% material. Even if most of the material is air…air is not nothing.[/quote]I always find it amusing, in a good way, that no matter what we human critters start talking about it always eventually winds up in the realm of the philosophical. What is “space”? Is it nothing? We call it that because it’s a useful linguistic vehicle for conveying the concept of a region of our 3 dimensional environment wherein we don’t have a way of empirically verifying that anyTHING actually is. From a Christian philosophical standpoint I am rather convinced, but not incurably so at this point, that “nothing” doesn’t exist. An intentional double negative. The very definition of “nothing”, at least one meaningful to us, does not and indeed I would contend, CANNOT exist. From my again Christian philosophical perspective, the fact of this invincible resistance to definition does not in itself preclude existence, as we are neither the source nor the arbiter of ANY of the data or ANY of the interpretation of the data concerning anyTHING, anyWHERE, anyTIME. The absolute triune God of historic Christianity being alone this source and arbiter and the fact of His intellect infinitely surpassing ours in every way, necessitates that He knows alotta stuff that we don’t, see? The definitive answer to this question will, at least in this life, probably remain unanswered for any but Him.

This, in my view is a relatively minor philosophical point governed by others the direct pursuit of which is far more useful and productive.

Kamui, I can hear you thinking. I hasten to add that no, this does not render me vulnerable to the charge of pantheism. A galactically huge discussion that we are best off not embarking upon at the moment since our last galactically huge discussion is still awaiting my next very belated response. Also, when you read this (because you will not be able to resist this thread), As part of a class assignment from my church I am charged with the task of conducting a short interview with an unbeliever concerning their theory of knowledge, God, ethics etc. I would like to honor you with being the subject of this interview. I shouldn’t have to tell you that you will receive the utmost respect. I will quote you verbatim and you will be given an exact copy of what I will be turning in. No pressure and if you don’t want to, that’s ok.

Oh yeah. This should elicit some predictable snap responses about how science may one day indeed answer this question. It may also elicit 1 or 2 from others (like maybe Kamui) who have chased this a bit further and who do realize the enormous barriers between us and any potential answer to the immediately self defeating question: “is there such a thing as NOthing”? (or space if defined the same way?)[/quote]

Wait…you don’t believe that nothing can exist or does exist…this is huge Tirib…answer wisely. :wink:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:<<< The very definition of “nothing”, at least one meaningful to us, does not and indeed I would contend, CANNOT exist. From my again Christian philosophical perspective, the fact of this invincible resistance to definition does not in itself preclude existence, [/quote]Wait…you don’t believe that nothing can exist or does exist…this is huge Tirib…answer wisely. ;)[/quote]Keep tryin Christopher. =] I am doubting that there can be such a “thing” as "NOthing" and even then allow for such a “thing” that may simply be undefinable and incomprehensible to us as finite derivative creatures.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:<<< The very definition of “nothing”, at least one meaningful to us, does not and indeed I would contend, CANNOT exist. From my again Christian philosophical perspective, the fact of this invincible resistance to definition does not in itself preclude existence, [/quote]Wait…you don’t believe that nothing can exist or does exist…this is huge Tirib…answer wisely. ;)[/quote]Keep tryin Christopher. =] I am doubting that there can be such a “thing” as "NOthing" and even then allow for such a “thing” that may simply be undefinable and incomprehensible to us as finite derivative creatures.
[/quote]

So, you don’t believe a vacuum can exist?

[quote]Karado wrote:
Way before scientists even speculated DM, Ancient Occultists already knew about this…nothing new.
Our bodies themselves are mostly “Dark Matter” per se… we’re all mostly empty space when observed sub-atomically, but our natural eyes deceive us, we observe each other in society as being mostly “matter”, but that’s bullshit, we are not mostly material substance at all.

[/quote]

Excellent observation! Our bodies are actually just one step away from consciousness.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:<<< The very definition of “nothing”, at least one meaningful to us, does not and indeed I would contend, CANNOT exist. From my again Christian philosophical perspective, the fact of this invincible resistance to definition does not in itself preclude existence, [/quote]Wait…you don’t believe that nothing can exist or does exist…this is huge Tirib…answer wisely. ;)[/quote]Keep tryin Christopher. =] I am doubting that there can be such a “thing” as "NOthing" and even then allow for such a “thing” that may simply be undefinable and incomprehensible to us as finite derivative creatures.
[/quote]So, you don’t believe a vacuum can exist?[/quote]Why should I?

Because they’re the only things that keep carpets clean between shampoos.

[quote]Karado wrote:Because they’re the only things that keep carpets clean between shampoos.[/quote]Very cute LOL!!!

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:<<< The very definition of “nothing”, at least one meaningful to us, does not and indeed I would contend, CANNOT exist. From my again Christian philosophical perspective, the fact of this invincible resistance to definition does not in itself preclude existence, [/quote]Wait…you don’t believe that nothing can exist or does exist…this is huge Tirib…answer wisely. ;)[/quote]Keep tryin Christopher. =] I am doubting that there can be such a “thing” as "NOthing" and even then allow for such a “thing” that may simply be undefinable and incomprehensible to us as finite derivative creatures.
[/quote]So, you don’t believe a vacuum can exist?[/quote]Why should I?
[/quote]

To deny the possibility of a vacuum was to deny God’s creative power, for nothing was impossible to an omnipotent God.

Thomas E. Woods. How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization (pp. 89-90). Kindle Edition.

And, you’d be agreeing with Aristotle. :wink:

Creative power is right… I think God’s most creative days
were when he made Bugs and Insects…And tons of the creative, bizarre SEX they
were hard wired with too.
Praying Mantis’ killing it’s mate after copulating, Bugs with drill-like penii that drill
into the shell of the female, lol.

How about a species of Fish with a Penis on it’s head…Does that mean
the creator Just may have a sense of humor? Maybe a little? Tons of strange creatures…tons of very
strange copulating behaviors.
Who needs an “alien” planet to witness strange things? This IS an alien planet!
I Gotta stop watchin’ Nat Geo so much.

[quote]Karado wrote:
Creative power is right… I think God’s most creative days
were when he made Bugs and Insects…And tons of the creative, bizarre SEX they
were hard wired with too.
Praying Mantis’ killing it’s mate after copulating, Bugs with drill-like penii that drill
into the shell of the female, lol.
How about a species of Fish with a Penis on it’s head…Does that mean
the creator Just may have a sense of humor? Maybe a little? Tons of strange creatures…tons of very
strange copulating behaviors.
Who needs an “alien” planet to witness strange things? This IS an alien planet!
I Gotta stop watchin’ Nat Geo so much.
[/quote]

A vacuum being able to exist, and a vacuum existing are two different things. Just FYI.