No they didn’t. PE is primarily doing an Isolation first to pre-fatigue A target muscle (Large OR Small) followed by a compound movement to bring in additional muscles to help further fatigue the Target Muscle.
That is basically what i said…you are fatiguing the chest muscles with a fly first and the utilizing the chest, shoulders and triceps when doing the chest press within 3 seconds of the isolation exercise
how is what i said different than what you said?
Your explanation makes it sound like it’s ONLY for larger muscles. I can’t speak for AJ, as all his compound machines seemed geared to chest, back, or shoulders, but Darden and Mentzer were big on Pre-Fatigue groupings where the small muscles were worked first and then aided by larger muscles for greater fatigue.
But is the decline in bench press performance relevant? Maybe not, if the objective is to work the triceps harder. The triceps indeed might get more stimulation, even if the load is lower, because they are getting no help from the pecs. What is unknown here, and difficult to measure, is how much muscle tension is created in the triceps using the different scenarios (bench only with more weight vs lighter bench after pre-exhausting the pecs).
Yes, extremely relevant if one decides to use this methodology.
The objective of the double chest was to further fatigue the chest, NOT further fatigue the triceps.
The triceps will receive less stimulation because the nervous system will be involved as triggered by muscle spindles and Golgi bodies which keep the triceps muscles from firing due to a lack of coordinated movement due to chest muscle pre fatigue
What is known, your performance will decrease in the second exercise
Marc
Can you gjve an example or where Darden or Mentzer said that, so i can read it
i have Dardens books along with Mentzer and do not recall pre-fatiguing smaller muscles first
Well… if the purpose of the double chest machines was to further fatigue the chest muscles, then I see your point. It then ends up being an expensive way to get deeper fatigue. Might as well just do drop sets, or forced reps.
As for inhibition of the triceps because of the absence of pec support, I wonder if that has ever been studied? I would imagine that a lot of unintended things happen to exercise form and muscle recruitment patterns when you pre-fatigue certain muscle groups before doing an exercise.
I can’t tell if you really don’t know or are just acting deliberately ignorant!!
Darden - ‘Bigger Muscles in 42 Days’ - “Moving quickly, in less than 3 seconds, from a single-joint exercise to a multi-joint exercise, is called Pre-Exhaustion.”
Routines: BB Curl / DB Curl / Neg Chin-Up
Triceps Ext with DB / Triceps Pressdown / Neg Dip
He mentions these two supersets again in ‘The New BB for Old School Results’
Mentzer’s original pamphlets were ALL about P-F supersets. By the time of Heavy Duty I, he kept PFSS for triceps, but dropped them for biceps (probably due to his mistaken belief that RG pulldowns were the Grandaddy of biceps exercises…)
The Routine (pg 51) -“…Lying French Press/Pressdowns/ or Triceps Mach supersetted with Dips”
In HDII, he simply shows it as “…Triceps Pressdowns superset with Dips” (pg 102)
Ok, i re-read (HDII page 102) what you are saying and stand corrected, i was not being ignorant…i just recalled using the double machines to pre-exhaust
Leg ext then leg press
Pullover then pulldowns
Arm cross then chest press
Lateral raise the shoulder press
Just to play word games…my original expanation never used the word ‘only’, 
no no no Recruitment and firing rates are always orderly based on motor unit size (small motor units have less fibers, larger motor units have more fibers with a common nerve)
Effort above the recruitment threshold for a muscle, recruits and increases firing rates of all fibers (most average muscles are in the 80% range, then addition force is strictly from firing rate increases aka rate coding ), and we recruit them each and every set. Fatigue limits the force of the fibers as it builds but they all still are fully recruited and highly activated.
no no no
To what?
Could you specifically state what I stated is wrong?
Your previous incoherent reply is confusing, so I will not try to decipher what point you are trying to illuminate.
Marc
this
We recruit all fibers over and over and over. No matter if it’s more reps, more sets, or other exercises. Force loss is from fatigue in the fiber (energy and coupling, etc.) so the fiber loses force the longer or more times it’s contracted.
Most muscles fully recruit ALL fibers when effort is above 80% of maximum
My reply is not incoherent, it’s exact.
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