Put some flour on that, season it, and then deep fry it.
We’re having Danuggets for dinner.
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This is me during most medical procedures, dentist injection into the gums: laughing, site injection at the start of the vasectomy: laughing (Dr actually commented that was a first), even went for a sports massage the other day - when she hit the really painful spots: laughing.
My wife hates coming to medical procedures with me (usually the dentist) says it makes her embarrassed, but I have so little control over it and no idea why!
Hope the recovery goes well!
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LOL!!! Gross. And thank you for making me laugh.
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You too?! Maybe we should start an inappropriate laughter club. I wonder if that’s how we deal with medical/social anxiety of some sort. When a complete stranger is touching an unusual part of my body, I try to be delightful and keep composure but then everything becomes funny for some reason.
Health professionals probably prefer patients who laugh over patients who yell at them.
That’s hilarious. Just tell her how much more embarrassing it’d be if you started crying every time instead. Laughter is way more fun.
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I’m pretty much full lurker mode now, but
My wife is on 7mg/wk and that still puts her at about 3x the reference range. You’re on half that.
I know it look silly when you’ve got dudes running 250mg Test, 200mg Deca, 50mg Var and 3IU GH all under the guise of “TRT”, but 3.5mg/wk isn’t actually that low… of course, if you feel better (without side effects) at slightly more, then doing that is also not unreasonable.
Defy Medical has a provider by the name of Mike who has treated my wife and I well, they cost about $1500/yr.
I am quite interested in the Progesterone stuff, I need to get better acquainted with it (moreso for my wife).
I agree with this approach. Frontloading 2x weekly dose on first injection has worked well for others, including myself. You could also consider using Test Propionate as it will have a faster effect, but you will also have to inject more frequently. Dosage would be effectively the same between Prop and Cyp, although Prop is technically considered about 20% more potent than Cyp.
Also, thank you for posting about Long Length Partials the other day. I started a discussion on another forum with meatheads like me, and they all swear by it… if you’re going to failure - go to failure.
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Booooooooo! 
Did life get busier? Hope everything’s good!
Sometimes I’m more of a lurker too, so I totally get that. But you add a lot of value to conversations here and we enjoy your perspective.
Ok good to know! HRT for women just seems so imprecise. Like, “here, just take this amount every week, don’t worry about retesting your T levels, and we’ll see you next year!”
I get that there are major irreversible consequences when women overuse androgenic drugs, but I assumed the amount I was prescribed wouldn’t do much to raise it.
So this…
Is really comforting. Thank you!
This is great info. Actually, I’m going to share this info with my brother and sister-in-law too. They’ve been looking around for hormonal help and general practitioners don’t do much on that front.
I believe it’s the most underrated hormone (for women) to replace and nobody talks about it.
My doc said that the reason women have PMS is because they’re producing an insufficient amount of progesterone.
People get confused about this a lot though. They often blame progesterone for their skin problems and their carb cravings, but it’s the other way around. Progesterone actually fights those things and all the problems caused by estrogen dominance.
I read a book on it several years back and one of the things this doctor discussed was why some women have postpartum depression. She said it was because their progesterone tanks after they give birth. But it rises steadily while they’re pregnant giving them a sense of wellbeing. So when it crashes, it can cause a lot of distress. I’m paraphrasing my understanding of it. So take everything I write with a grain of salt.
If you ever get a sec, google stuff like, estrogen dominance among women and/or progesterone deficiency, and you’ll see all the common symptoms women complain about: bloating, weight gain, sleeplessness, irritability, carb cravings, low libido, etc.
I often wonder how many women have a progesterone deficiency and don’t even know it.
Excellent advice! Thank you so much for not lurking; we need you here!
So glad it was helpful. I often go back and forth on that topic because experts are so divided.
Dr. Mike from RP Strength, for instance, is always talking about full ROM, and his stuff really resonates, doesn’t it? But on the other hand, I tend to get great results (and less joint stress) from a shortened ROM on many lifts.
It’s tough when so many amazing professionals disagree with one another.
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I always thought this was ridiculous - for HRT and for birth control… let’s do exactly 0 hormone tests and just give this teen girl the same birth control we give every other female from the age of 12-45, because there’s obviously no difference in hormonal state between those age ranges.
*eyeroll*
Viktoria Felkar spoke about this specifically, something about her birth control being the wrong one and causing her severe mental concerns. Once she had one that was progesterone based - her PMS issues subsided. I haven’t watched the video in some time, but it was one of her youtube vids in conversation with some well-known TRT advocates.
She specializes in female hormone optimization for sports, FYI. (i’m still quite uninformed on this side of things)
If your provider won’t give you a blood test, which I strongly recommend you get, you can order your own at \privatemdlabs.com
I would probably do the medium Quest option of these, but you would know better than I would. Different dosages affect people differently; if you can handle a higher dose without sides - I genuinely don’t see a reason you should not be taking a higher dose. I’m also not that risk averse so take it with a grain of salt.
Ugh, RP…
So I love Mike Israetel - like I would happily buy him a beer and just chat with the dude. But he continually spouts his Reps In Reserve training, despite 99% of people being absolutely terrible at gauging RIR/RPE (by a few reps or more). Nevermind that all data currently points to an exponential benefit of reps in proximity to failure (particularly spiking on RIR2-0 range). And lets act like we don’t see him training his competitors to failure, while also saying not to train to failure… Perhaps there is some other motivation for the misleading of his followers (his entire training program is bust if he says “train to failure”).
His diet advice is solid for natties and those who are ‘reasonably’ enhanced, but for guys taking a LOT of drugs, the protein parameters need to increase from 1g/lb BW to like 2g/lb BW.
It could be boiled down to:
- 1g/lb BW protein
- 0.3g/lb BW fats
- carbs = the remainder to caloric goal.
His choice in exercises seem decent, but it is dependent on what you are looking to do. Pre-fatigue is mostly nonsense, but it can be helpful in nuanced situations when you cannot feel the target muscle… this typically no longer applies when you have a decade or so of training under your belt, but outliers always exist.
Every big guy I know trains to failure, so make of that what you will. 
Well, life is busy, I’m trying to step away from unnecessary dopamine sources “dopamine detox” or whatever… I’m not doing a good job of it.
TBH I don’t think most people here really want my opinions for the same reason(s) Paul Carter is no longer around. Not that I find myself anywhere near his caliber, but he is my spirit animal.
I lurk on some of the logs of people I enjoy talking to, but this forum is a bit too politically correct for me - to be totally honest. I made a thread recently that made that clear to me.
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It’s insane. And doctors are quick to prescribe birth control to any young teen who has acne. Been there, regretted that.
Funny how my doctor never recommended healthy eating and exercise. Because that’s what ended up working. My bodybuilding coach had me cut out all junk food, most dairy, and processed carbs, (so basically a paleo diet before that was trendy), and my skin incidentally cleared up.
RIP Coach Joe Pete. If I hadn’t met him I’d be obese right now.
She was so smart to find a better option because the pill is not just the pill. And it’s all so dang tricky. There are some that don’t have nearly the drawbacks as others.
I’m grateful to not be on it. In fact, I make it a goal to be as fertile as possible even though I’ll never have kids. (Chris got the snippy-snip years before we met.) 
You’re far more informed than most men and a whole lot of women (including younger-me).
She would be open to that I’m sure. So if you’re thinking I should retest, I will. Maybe in January or February? That site you linked to above is awesome!
I’m posting it again because it might be handy for anyone swinging by: Fast Hormone Blood Testing for Women Near You
His teaching style is entertaining and it seems like most of what he says – on YouTube at least – is great advice. But on just one or two things (ROM, RPE, for instance) I’ve been a little more skeptical.
Okay THIS speaks volumes. I trust what experts actually do over what they say you should do.
Good points!
Yeah that makes sense and that seems like what I’ve seen too.
We probably all need this. So good for you! high-five
Paul Carter was a paid contributor who wrote articles for us. People loved his opinions! So I don’t think that’s why he’s not submitting articles here any longer.
This is going to sound odd, but sometimes strength coaches submit articles here for a while and then decide it’s not a thing they have time for anymore. Or perhaps they feel like their content is better spent on social media. Who knows?
But people in this community love your advice and hot takes. I believe this is true even when they disagree with you. Do you have controversial opinions? Sure! But if there’s something we don’t like about what you said, we have many options: scrolling right on past, discussing it, debating it, agreeing to disagree, or any other healthy reaction.
But I understand feeling the need to back off a bit.
I must’ve missed the PC stuff you’re talking about. It seems like there’s a pretty wide variety of perspectives here with more libertarian and conservative-leaning voices than most internet platforms. But if I’m wrong, then that’s another reason you need to stick around!
Listen to Thomas Sowell.
Actually, come to think of it, I’m pretty bad at this. 
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What do you mean?
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Wait. What do you mean what do I mean?
Sometimes people write articles about things they needed to get off their chest, or things they’re most passionate about, and at some point they don’t feel the need to continue writing articles about it any longer. They may take their content in a different direction, like purely social media, or podcasts, or simply in-person training. Now, I’m not saying that’s what happened in Carter’s particular case because I don’t know. But it’s not an uncommon occurrence.
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That makes sense. I was asking whether it was that they “tried out” all their big ideas here, before going off into the world with what worked, or more just that they said their piece and it was time to move on. You answered it. Thanks!
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Oh I’m so glad you asked for clarification! 
I can see how it could be interpreted that way.
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Yesterday’s workout was somewhat experimental. The doc who removed a chunk of my back is also a lifter, and while stitching me up he said that I would for sure pop a stitch if I do any exercise that stretches my back.
The stitched up area is smack in the middle of my back (between scapulae) and seems to be where the arrow is pointing on the lower part of the trapezius.
It’s hard to believe traps go this low, isn’t it?
He said I could train shoulders and hit chest using machines. So that’s basically what I did yesterday.
Arnold Press: 3 x failure
Lateral Raise: 10 x 10
Cable Rear Delt Flye: 3 x failure
Seated Chest Press: 3 x failure
Weighted Walking Lunge: 4 x out and back
What really hurt my back-hole was the walking lunges.
Pushing weight overhead and laterally didn’t cause a problem, but somehow holding a measly 25-pound plate at torso level irritated the heck out of that area.
But I got an awesome pump in the quads by going super controlled during the descent, and letting the lowered knee hover above the floor before pushing back off with the opposite side foot. I love lunge.
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Perhaps an indication that lunges with the weight locked out overhead is a viable alternative?
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Possibly! I’m wondering if just the isometric contraction required to hold weight in any position might be the cause.
But then again, momentary pain during a workout is totally fine. As long as the stitches are staying put, I’m okay with it.
What’s kind of sucky is that by bedtime, the pain is agonizing. So I’ve been having to take ibprofin just to sleep.
Test Results
Check out the highlighted numbers.
It’s proof that you can do basically all the right things: eat adequate calories, avoid alcohol, avoid junk food, work out regularly, bonk regularly, and still have low testosterone.
There’s actually a perk to having these results. If I can achieve a decent body comp with extremely low T-levels, what can I do when they’re optimal? That’s an exciting thought.
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Progesterone: The Point of Too Much
Found it! You know you’re taking too much when all you want to do is nap and cuddle.
It feels like the opposite of estrogen-dominance where you’re wired yet can’t focus, can’t sleep through the night, feel somewhat on-edge, and constantly insecure. Not to mention, the puffiness from water retention, the acne, the cramps, and the migraines.
So finding the balance is key. But I’d rather be in cuddle-mode than the other extreme. Chris might disagree after I clung to him like a koala bear for three hours of mindless TV on Sunday.
This was us in cuddle-mode on Thanksgiving in 2009.
The progesterone schedule my doc gave me is a bit too aggressive. But my levels did need to be higher than what I was taking before going to see her. And believe it or not, figuring this out is kinda fun.
The counter-intuitive thing about progesterone is that it leans you out a bit if you were estrogen-dominant. And it’ll do so without calorie counting or extra exercise. In fact, I’ve been skipping workouts (due to stitches on my back), eating whatever I want, and feeling leaner during luteal phase which is when women tend to experience the opposite.
All of this is leading me to believe that maybe we should be tracking our hormones instead of our calories.
The progesterone-estrogen balance isn’t super straight forward but it is figure-out-able. As I witnessed last February, if you take too much for too long – or during all four phases of the 28 day cycle – it can start to have the reverse effect and you may notice yourself retaining more water or feeling a little softer.
So taking it when your body is supposed to be producing it in higher amounts seems like the most reasonable thing to do. I’ll be bumping it up (higher than previously) only during days 14-ish to 27-ish, and then apart from that, only taking half-doses around bedtime if feeling under-recovered.
The Over-Exercise Paradox
Incidentally, I believe overdoing it with exercise is what lead to estrogen-dominance in the first place. And by “the first place” I mean, like, decades. But there was a time in my 20s where I didn’t have a period for three years, so there was probably no dominance of anything.
But I’m starting to wonder if maybe the women, who seem to be going all out and “doing everything right” but still can’t change their bodies, are just experiencing a hormonal imbalance. And instead of exercising harder or restricting more calories, they need to be seeing a doctor who’s studied women’s hormones.
And here’s a hot take: Maybe the eat-less, move-more approach is an oversimplification that works well for men, but eventually acts as an endocrine disruptor for women. Because a severe enough disruption in our hormones can cause our bodies to hang onto fat instead of mobilizing it.
(We have an incredible article coming up about that. I was so honored to get to edit it.)
Another fun-fact my doctor gave me? She said estrogen-dominance causes carb cravings. If she’s right, think of all the implications related to that!
So anyway, HRT is a bit of a trial and error thing. This is not advice for anyone else, but mainly just some notes to remember for (my own) future reference.
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I’ll concede to in addition to, but most people just need to not eat like an asshole.
Possibly. Essential bodyfat is 10-13% for women, and 3-5% for men. Meaning, any lower and you are risking literal death.
- It’s quite difficult for men to get below 3% bodyfat and most Olympia competitors only hit close to that 3% marker for a couple hours when they peak.
- For any woman to be “stage ready” is going to require single digits, and that is a much more serious risk for health. However, I think this state is much easier to maintain (being below essential bodyfat percentage) than the male equivalent.
It’s bro science (probably supported by actual science out there somewhere), but I think spending years in this low bodyfat state is quite damaging for women’s reproductive health - which very much includes hormones in this case. You’re always lean, and likely in that 10-13%BF range… I mean, you can count abs, right?
At any rate, I don’t like the “eat less, do more” approach to dieting, unless going to extremes. It lends itself to falling flat very quickly. I much prefer the method that involves getting 1g/lb BW protein, 0.3g/lb BW fats, and carb reduction to lowest extent that is manageable (for both hunger and performance) - and only adding cardio for weight loss when the scale stops moving.
I would also add to the bro science that I think hormonal and physical stress lends itself to the body adapting in often unwanted ways. Gymnasts train more than anyone on this forum, are not unhealthy low bodyfat levels, and still often don’t have their periods… I think it’s the female body’s way of saying “we’re not in a favorable child-rearing state right now”.
What that does hormonally? I couldn’t tell you, but would be interested to read about.
I’ll keep an eye out.
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For sure, but I think we’re talking about two different things.
Like you said, there’s definitely a time when a woman can experience a hormonal disruption from being too lean. In that case, she’s likely low in all hormonal production, and there’s a good chance she won’t have a consistent 28-day cycle. There’s no estrogen dominance, because estrogen is too low to be dominant.
But on the other hand, consider a slightly more common population of women. How many are struggling with their weight while hammering their bodies with cardio (or metcon) and counting calories?
I’ve met so many women like this!
So that’s why I suspect this is often a result of estrogen dominance. My theory is that those who can’t lose weight, despite eating in a deficit and working out consistently, are dealing with high estrogen and low progesterone.
They don’t lose their cycle because they have sufficient body fat for it, but they experience a lot of other symptoms, like these:
This is just a random list I grabbed off of a google image search for estrogen dominance. But there are many others like it with the same symptoms.
And it sucks because women who experience this are working hard, being disciplined, and doing everything “right” by the standards of fit pros who’ve just never delved into the topic of women’s hormones. Sometimes they’re even accused of lying or sneaking food and not tracking it.
I’ve never experienced anything like that, but I’ve seen plenty of that behavior from fit pros on social media before.
Absolutely, and I’d guess it can have long-term effects that are also no-bueno. Even for those who don’t care about reproducing.
You bring up a great point, and to be honest I’m not sure. So I wonder if they simply have a couple things going for them, like muscle growth and age.
Do gymnasts who are no longer in their competitive years stay that jacked and lean for the rest of their lives? I don’t know.
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Regarding gymnasts, I read once where one gold-medalist female (Mary Lou Retton?) never had a period until after she retired from the sport, then later had trouble conceiving. So I think it maybe has something to do with the fact they become high-level athletes with very low body fat even before they hit puberty.
A few years ago there was a minor controversy when a little-girl gymnastics team posted some photos from their beach trip. They all had full-on 6-packs and were like 10 years old. People freaked out. This isn’t it, but they can be quite ripped, and that has to do something hormonally around puberty time.
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