[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Haavik wrote:
http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-5169888-7.html?tag=page;next
Yeah. Hot. Oh wait, it said that she raped the boy. Nevermind, that makes sense.[/quote]
Dude, you can’t rape the willing.[/quote]
Would you tell that to the parents of a 14 year old girl?
Edit: actually that one was 12 at the time.[/quote]
Do you seriously believe that there is no difference based on gender?
DD, your entire argument was based on gender. That it’s no different for an adolescent boy to have sex with an older woman than it is for an adolescent girl to do the same. That’s what I disagreed with.
You’re losing your own point, but part of that is my fault for arguing about something stupid, the authority thing, and I was wrong, like I admitted in my last post.
I don’t think these situations are acceptable either. I think the women are seriously fucked up in the head. My whole thing is that I don’t think that there is a victim in these situations. There is a difference because of gender.
You never even responded to my argument on the last page, you ignored it. I don’t see how that’s “tearing it apart” or whatever you said. You tore apart my authority question, but that’s pretty easy. It was a stupid argument.
Here it is again though, go nuts.
[quote]
Go look at those pics and tell me you wouldn’t have wanted to pound every one of those women after you hit puberty. Yes or no.
It comes down to whether or not I believe there was a victim in any of the cases. I was a 12 year old heterosexual boy once. I would not have been a victim if I was banging my hot math teacher unless she got pregnant or gave me an incurable STD.
I just don’t think it’s likely that a sexually matured heterosexual male will be victimized by having sex with an older woman.
I think it is much more likely for a 12 year old girl to be victimized by an older man or woman, or a for 12 year old homosexual boy to be victimized by an older man. I was never either of those things, so I may be wrong.
The construct is as much biological as it is social. Men can’t have sex without arousal, unless of course they’re gay. Women can.[/quote]
I’m also going off of the assumption that the boys are sexually matured, but I thought we all were. Otherwise it’s pedophilia.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I think the other big point people are missing is how horribly this violates teacher ethics. Its similar to a boss sleeping with a person whose job they control.
An authority figure like a teacher should never do anything like that, even if you believe a 12 year old can consent.[/quote]
This I do agree with. They are taking advantage of their position, but not the age of the kids
[quote]Dre the Hatchet wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
No one has answered why its more wrong to sleep with a 12 year old girl.
[/quote]
it`s fair to say that girls are a lot more confused and unstable (hence all the fucking eating disorders whereas guys at that age tend to eat everything in sight) and really don’t KNOW what they want. Hell, a lot of women up to their 20’s are confused, unstable, don’t know what they want and make poor choices with sexual partners that leave them hurt.
[/quote]
Lol at this whole paragraph. This is dumb. Many girls know what they want and many boys are confused to broadly say its okay to sleep with a 12 year old boy because â??boys are less confusedâ?? is retarded.
Many females have a much bigger sex drive than many males. This again is a big time over generalization. I believe in large part brought about by social convention rather than biological science.
HOWEVER, once again, if a 12 year old boy can consent, you would be okay with a hideously ugly fat old woman talking you into sex, or one with an STD, or a man talking you into sex when you were 12?
It seems like the reason you guys think it acceptable is because â??sheâ??s hot so you can be proud of it growing upâ?? (hence the view of the reverse situation). What if it were a woman so ugly youâ??d regret it growing up? How pretty she is or how proud of it you are later (or even if itâ??s a she at all) shouldnâ??t change your moral stance on the situation.
You guys are biased and morally shallow. A 12 year old has no business having sex with an adult. No 12 year old is mature enough to grasp the possible consequences.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I think the other big point people are missing is how horribly this violates teacher ethics. Its similar to a boss sleeping with a person whose job they control.
An authority figure like a teacher should never do anything like that, even if you believe a 12 year old can consent.[/quote]
This I do agree with. They are taking advantage of their position, but not the age of the kids[/quote]
Do you really classify a high school or middle school teacher as an “authority figure?” Besides, who really holds the power in the relationship? If they are found out, who stands to lose more?
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Haavik wrote:
http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-5169888-7.html?tag=page;next
Yeah. Hot. Oh wait, it said that she raped the boy. Nevermind, that makes sense.[/quote]
Dude, you can’t rape the willing.[/quote]
Would you tell that to the parents of a 14 year old girl?
Edit: actually that one was 12 at the time.[/quote]
Do you seriously believe that there is no difference based on gender?[/quote]
If it’s so apparent show me the difference.
[quote]SickAbs wrote:
“In July 2006, Pamela Rogers was ordered by a Tenn. judge to seven years in jail for violating her probation on a sentence for having sex with a 13-year-old boy. At the hearing she said, “I am willing to do anything to rehabilitate myself.” Yet in 2007, she received an extra two years for again sending nude photos to the boy.”
She was convicted, broke probation by sending him nude texts and videos etc, was sentenced for breaking probation, then got an extra 2 years for sending more! Wtf could a thirteen yr old boy have for this 23 yr old blonde to want him like that?. Now thirteen yr old girls on the other hand…[/quote]
nice avi Sickabs. LMAO
So I just want to knwo: Where were all these hot teachers when I was in school?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Haavik wrote:
http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-5169888-7.html?tag=page;next
Yeah. Hot. Oh wait, it said that she raped the boy. Nevermind, that makes sense.[/quote]
Dude, you can’t rape the willing.[/quote]
Would you tell that to the parents of a 14 year old girl?
Edit: actually that one was 12 at the time.[/quote]
Do you seriously believe that there is no difference based on gender?[/quote]
If it’s so apparent show me the difference.[/quote]
Double D most of the guys on these boards are thinking as a guy. As a parent things change. I used to think this way until my own son came of age. I did not want my son to smash everything that moved, and I would have killed a fucking teacher if she did this to my kid. As a parent when a child has a loss of inocence a little part of you dies inside. If you are a parent you will understand if not dont be hating on me. And before somebody gives me shit, I have 5 teenagers from 14-19 both boys and girls.
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
You could also say the whole construct of high fiving a 12 year old boy sleeping with a 35 year old teeacher while putting away a man sleeping with a 12 year old girl for 20 years is also nothing more than a social constuct.
No one has answered why its more wrong to sleep with a 12 year old girl.
Since no one will answer that one, how about this. A 35 year old man sleeping with a 12 year old boy. Still think a 12 year old boy is old enough to consent? If not, your differentiation has nothing to do with the child in question and you need to rethink your view.
What if a 35 year old woman is sleeping with a 12 year old girl?
If you aren’t biased the answer to all these questions including the original situation should be the same. [/quote]
Go look at those pics and tell me you wouldn’t have wanted to pound every one of those women after you hit puberty. Yes or no.
It comes down to whether or not I believe there was a victim in any of the cases. I was a 12 year old heterosexual boy once. I would not have been a victim if I was banging my hot math teacher unless she got pregnant or gave me an incurable STD.
I just don’t think it’s likely that a sexually matured heterosexual male will be victimized by having sex with an older woman.
I think it is much more likely for a 12 year old girl to be victimized by an older man or woman, or a for 12 year old homosexual boy to be victimized by an older man. I was never either of those things, so I may be wrong.
The construct is as much biological as it is social. Men can’t have sex without arousal, unless of course they’re gay. Women can.[/quote]
So if they were ugly, then it’d be wrong?
“I think it is much more likely for a 12 year old girl to be victimized by an older man” Give me a reason why? The only reason I’ve heard is social convention. But regardless your post acknowledges that your argument is in no way absolute. Even if the claim were true, each case boy or girl, would need to be examined on an individual basis.
“The construct is as much biological as it is social. Men can’t have sex without arousal, unless of course they’re gay. Women can.” Yes and no. Men (especially boys) can have erections without arousal. Aside from your assertion being wrong, if a 12 year old girl is aroused, then its okay?
“It comes down to whether or not I believe there was a victim in any of the cases.” There is a victim if there is risk to the child. All sex has risk. Psycological/emotional impact on the child. Possible regret. Possible media storm. STDs. pregnancy.
pretty sure its been shown that these perceived variances in emotional stability by gender have been dis-proven. For the most part males and females go through all the same emotions, have the same levels of emotional maturity/intelligence, and experience the same level of angst growing up. So if a 12/14 year old boy is more comfortable sleeping with a 30year old teacher it’s because of societal norms, not because he’s more emotionally mature at that age than a female. So if what we’re talking about are norms, which are transient and subjective at best (in some cultures its more acceptable for old men to marry and sleep with young girls than the other way around), then it stands to reason that positive responses to these affairs are just perpetuating a kind of male neurosis; one where we feel insecure/unstable about being insecure/unstable, and where we talk ourselves into doing things we’re not always ready to do - only to bury the mental re-repercussions later. Does that make any sense? idk…
Having said that… I would have given it fucking HARD to Ms Meece… REAL fuckin hard… Additionally, I’ve dated girls that were just really really fucked up crazy - far more than I could ever imagine being, so who the fuck knows.
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I think the other big point people are missing is how horribly this violates teacher ethics. Its similar to a boss sleeping with a person whose job they control.
An authority figure like a teacher should never do anything like that, even if you believe a 12 year old can consent.[/quote]
This I do agree with. They are taking advantage of their position, but not the age of the kids[/quote]
Do you really classify a high school or middle school teacher as an “authority figure?” Besides, who really holds the power in the relationship? If they are found out, who stands to lose more?[/quote]
This is even more wrong than most of this thread. YES they are a huge authority figure. Go read some books on early childhood development. Something like this can screw up a child for life.
[quote]secondplace wrote:
pretty sure its been shown that these perceived variances in emotional stability by gender have been dis-proven. For the most part males and females go through all the same emotions, have the same levels of emotional maturity/intelligence, and experience the same level of angst growing up. So if a 12/14 year old boy is more comfortable sleeping with a 30year old teacher it’s because of societal norms, not because he’s more emotionally mature at that age than a female. So if what we’re talking about are norms, which are transient and subjective at best (in some cultures its more acceptable for old men to marry and sleep with young girls than the other way around), then it stands to reason that positive responses to these affairs are just perpetuating a kind of male neurosis; one where we feel insecure/unstable about being insecure/unstable, and where we talk ourselves into doing things we’re not always ready to do - only to bury the mental re-repercussions later. Does that make any sense? idk…
Having said that… I would have given it fucking HARD to Ms Meece… REAL fuckin hard… Additionally, I’ve dated girls that were just really really fucked up crazy - far more than I could ever imagine being, so who the fuck knows. [/quote]
[quote] wrote:
Double D most of the guys on these boards are thinking as a guy. As a parent things change. I used to think this way until my own son came of age. I did not want my son to smash everything that moved, and I would have killed a fucking teacher if she did this to my kid. As a parent when a child has a loss of inocence a little part of you dies inside. If you are a parent you will understand if not dont be hating on me. And before somebody gives me shit, I have 5 teenagers from 14-19 both boys and girls.
[/quote]
Finally some people with heads on their shoulders in this thread. It’s about time.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]secondplace wrote:
pretty sure its been shown that these perceived variances in emotional stability by gender have been dis-proven. For the most part males and females go through all the same emotions, have the same levels of emotional maturity/intelligence, and experience the same level of angst growing up. So if a 12/14 year old boy is more comfortable sleeping with a 30year old teacher it’s because of societal norms, not because he’s more emotionally mature at that age than a female. So if what we’re talking about are norms, which are transient and subjective at best (in some cultures its more acceptable for old men to marry and sleep with young girls than the other way around), then it stands to reason that positive responses to these affairs are just perpetuating a kind of male neurosis; one where we feel insecure/unstable about being insecure/unstable, and where we talk ourselves into doing things we’re not always ready to do - only to bury the mental re-repercussions later. Does that make any sense? idk…
Having said that… I would have given it fucking HARD to Ms Meece… REAL fuckin hard… Additionally, I’ve dated girls that were just really really fucked up crazy - far more than I could ever imagine being, so who the fuck knows. [/quote]
[quote] wrote:
Double D most of the guys on these boards are thinking as a guy. As a parent things change. I used to think this way until my own son came of age. I did not want my son to smash everything that moved, and I would have killed a fucking teacher if she did this to my kid. As a parent when a child has a loss of inocence a little part of you dies inside. If you are a parent you will understand if not dont be hating on me. And before somebody gives me shit, I have 5 teenagers from 14-19 both boys and girls.
[/quote]
Finally some people with heads on their shoulders in this thread. It’s about time.
[/quote]
Hell I am orginally from East Tennesse, we may be hillbillys but we can evolve. 
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
Not sure sure you guys would think it would be great to bang a teacher as 12 year old when she gets pregnant and has your kid. Maybe you wouldn’t care but maybe you would and maybe you’re just not old enough to get sucked into that just yet.
Just sayin.[/quote]
Or get an STD. I mean hell, she’s got to be a slut (the sceezy kind not the kind discussed in the other thread) to sleep with 12 year old kids.
I know at 12 I wasn’t mature enough to make that decision, any adult that would have slept with me would have been taking advantage. It’s why its why they have a special name for it, statutory rape.[/quote]
Or put you through a major shitstorm as media, parents and school administrators react. That of course doesn’t address the right or wrong of it, since it is a side effect of societal response but it is again about being too young to choose whether you can handle that shit.
Being at the centre of a controversy is not an easy thing to deal with for any adult. It is too much for any kid.[/quote]
You could also say the whole construct of high fiving a 12 year old boy sleeping with a 35 year old teeacher while putting away a man sleeping with a 12 year old girl for 20 years is also nothing more than a social constuct.
No one has answered why its more wrong to sleep with a 12 year old girl.
Since no one will answer that one, how about this. A 35 year old man sleeping with a 12 year old boy. Still think a 12 year old boy is old enough to consent? If not, your differentiation has nothing to do with the child in question and you need to rethink your view.
What if a 35 year old woman is sleeping with a 12 year old girl?
If you aren’t biased the answer to all these questions including the original situation should be the same. [/quote]
Steel Nation DID answer your question. 99% of us on this forum are guys; we dont know how a 14 year old girl thinks, but we do remember how a 14 year old boy thinks. The answer to your “35 yr old man - 12 year old boy” question is the same - in all likelihood at least 90% of us are heterosexual, so we really have no idea how a 12 year old gay boy (since I am giving the question the benefit of the doubt that the participants are of the same orientation. Cuz if they’re not, then it’s definitely rape) would feel. I could go off on a tangent about how society being what it is, a 12 year old gay boy is likely to be MUCH more confused than a 12 year old hetero, unless he was raised in an extraordinarily open and accepting area, but I wont.
You are really hammering the age point far too hard. There are 20 year olds that are simply not mature enough to make a decision about who they sleep with, the precautions needed, and the potential consequences, but nobody is waving a flag for them.
Additionally, you continue the construct with the hypothetical 35 year old male. Is the size of the age gap your main point? What if it were a 21 year old student teacher and a 17 year old. Or hell, most seniors are 18 when they graduate, what if there were a 19 year old who got held back?
Look, as far as these situations - teachers, female or otherwise, sleeping with students - go, they are not ok. These women should not be teaching kids. If I were a parent, I doubt I’d want my 12 year old son sleeping with anyone, whether they were the same age as my son or not. People have asked “What could this 13 yr old have that made her want him so bad?” but in my opinion that is completely missing the point. In my thoroughly unprofessional and non-expert assessment, these women need help. But I have a hard time seeing them as predators. If you based your entire argument around the fact that it’s a wild violation of professional ethics for any teacher to sleep with their students, I’d be much more in agreement with you. That’s why it’s not ok for profs to sleep with students, even if they are doing post-grad work. Or for that matter doctors to sleep with (current) patients, or any “authority” type figure to sleep w a “subordinate.” But you’re not, you’re trying to base it on age and present the genders not as equal, but as identical and interchangeable, and i dont buy it.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
Not sure sure you guys would think it would be great to bang a teacher as 12 year old when she gets pregnant and has your kid. Maybe you wouldn’t care but maybe you would and maybe you’re just not old enough to get sucked into that just yet.
Just sayin.[/quote]
Or get an STD. I mean hell, she’s got to be a slut (the sceezy kind not the kind discussed in the other thread) to sleep with 12 year old kids.
I know at 12 I wasn’t mature enough to make that decision, any adult that would have slept with me would have been taking advantage. It’s why its why they have a special name for it, statutory rape.[/quote]
Or put you through a major shitstorm as media, parents and school administrators react. That of course doesn’t address the right or wrong of it, since it is a side effect of societal response but it is again about being too young to choose whether you can handle that shit.
Being at the centre of a controversy is not an easy thing to deal with for any adult. It is too much for any kid.[/quote]
You could also say the whole construct of high fiving a 12 year old boy sleeping with a 35 year old teeacher while putting away a man sleeping with a 12 year old girl for 20 years is also nothing more than a social constuct.
No one has answered why its more wrong to sleep with a 12 year old girl.
Since no one will answer that one, how about this. A 35 year old man sleeping with a 12 year old boy. Still think a 12 year old boy is old enough to consent? If not, your differentiation has nothing to do with the child in question and you need to rethink your view.
What if a 35 year old woman is sleeping with a 12 year old girl?
If you aren’t biased the answer to all these questions including the original situation should be the same. [/quote]
Steel Nation DID answer your question. 99% of us on this forum are guys; we dont know how a 14 year old girl thinks, but we do remember how a 14 year old boy thinks. The answer to your “35 yr old man - 12 year old boy” question is the same - in all likelihood at least 90% of us are heterosexual, so we really have no idea how a 12 year old gay boy (since I am giving the question the benefit of the doubt that the participants are of the same orientation. Cuz if they’re not, then it’s definitely rape) would feel. I could go off on a tangent about how society being what it is, a 12 year old gay boy is likely to be MUCH more confused than a 12 year old hetero, unless he was raised in an extraordinarily open and accepting area, but I wont.
You are really hammering the age point far too hard. There are 20 year olds that are simply not mature enough to make a decision about who they sleep with, the precautions needed, and the potential consequences, but nobody is waving a flag for them.
Additionally, you continue the construct with the hypothetical 35 year old male. Is the size of the age gap your main point? What if it were a 21 year old student teacher and a 17 year old. Or hell, most seniors are 18 when they graduate, what if there were a 19 year old who got held back?
Look, as far as these situations - teachers, female or otherwise, sleeping with students - go, they are not ok. These women should not be teaching kids. If I were a parent, I doubt I’d want my 12 year old son sleeping with anyone, whether they were the same age as my son or not. People have asked “What could this 13 yr old have that made her want him so bad?” but in my opinion that is completely missing the point. In my thoroughly unprofessional and non-expert assessment, these women need help. But I have a hard time seeing them as predators. If you based your entire argument around the fact that it’s a wild violation of professional ethics for any teacher to sleep with their students, I’d be much more in agreement with you. That’s why it’s not ok for profs to sleep with students, even if they are doing post-grad work. Or for that matter doctors to sleep with (current) patients, or any “authority” type figure to sleep w a “subordinate.” But you’re not, you’re trying to base it on age and present the genders not as equal, but as identical and interchangeable, and i dont buy it.[/quote]
At 12 years old they are pretty much interchangeable. If you are going to hold that there is some big difference, you are going to need to show it (I’ll help you out and let you know current study shows they aren’t different, so you’ll have a hard time).
I cannot believe you guys think its okay for any adult to sleep with a 12 year old. That is seriously sick. Any adult that would do that should be locked up.
edit: Oh, and I tore apart steely’s answer.
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I think the other big point people are missing is how horribly this violates teacher ethics. Its similar to a boss sleeping with a person whose job they control.
An authority figure like a teacher should never do anything like that, even if you believe a 12 year old can consent.[/quote]
This I do agree with. They are taking advantage of their position, but not the age of the kids[/quote]
Do you really classify a high school or middle school teacher as an “authority figure?” Besides, who really holds the power in the relationship? If they are found out, who stands to lose more?[/quote]
Yes, absolutely. Students, by and large, look up to their teachers. And if they don’t they set about looking for ways to skirt or undermine the teacher’s authority. So absolutely, yes I do.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
Not sure sure you guys would think it would be great to bang a teacher as 12 year old when she gets pregnant and has your kid. Maybe you wouldn’t care but maybe you would and maybe you’re just not old enough to get sucked into that just yet.
Just sayin.[/quote]
Or get an STD. I mean hell, she’s got to be a slut (the sceezy kind not the kind discussed in the other thread) to sleep with 12 year old kids.
I know at 12 I wasn’t mature enough to make that decision, any adult that would have slept with me would have been taking advantage. It’s why its why they have a special name for it, statutory rape.[/quote]
Or put you through a major shitstorm as media, parents and school administrators react. That of course doesn’t address the right or wrong of it, since it is a side effect of societal response but it is again about being too young to choose whether you can handle that shit.
Being at the centre of a controversy is not an easy thing to deal with for any adult. It is too much for any kid.[/quote]
You could also say the whole construct of high fiving a 12 year old boy sleeping with a 35 year old teeacher while putting away a man sleeping with a 12 year old girl for 20 years is also nothing more than a social constuct.
No one has answered why its more wrong to sleep with a 12 year old girl.
Since no one will answer that one, how about this. A 35 year old man sleeping with a 12 year old boy. Still think a 12 year old boy is old enough to consent? If not, your differentiation has nothing to do with the child in question and you need to rethink your view.
What if a 35 year old woman is sleeping with a 12 year old girl?
If you aren’t biased the answer to all these questions including the original situation should be the same. [/quote]
Steel Nation DID answer your question. 99% of us on this forum are guys; we dont know how a 14 year old girl thinks, but we do remember how a 14 year old boy thinks. The answer to your “35 yr old man - 12 year old boy” question is the same - in all likelihood at least 90% of us are heterosexual, so we really have no idea how a 12 year old gay boy (since I am giving the question the benefit of the doubt that the participants are of the same orientation. Cuz if they’re not, then it’s definitely rape) would feel. I could go off on a tangent about how society being what it is, a 12 year old gay boy is likely to be MUCH more confused than a 12 year old hetero, unless he was raised in an extraordinarily open and accepting area, but I wont.
You are really hammering the age point far too hard. There are 20 year olds that are simply not mature enough to make a decision about who they sleep with, the precautions needed, and the potential consequences, but nobody is waving a flag for them.
Additionally, you continue the construct with the hypothetical 35 year old male. Is the size of the age gap your main point? What if it were a 21 year old student teacher and a 17 year old. Or hell, most seniors are 18 when they graduate, what if there were a 19 year old who got held back?
Look, as far as these situations - teachers, female or otherwise, sleeping with students - go, they are not ok. These women should not be teaching kids. If I were a parent, I doubt I’d want my 12 year old son sleeping with anyone, whether they were the same age as my son or not. People have asked “What could this 13 yr old have that made her want him so bad?” but in my opinion that is completely missing the point. In my thoroughly unprofessional and non-expert assessment, these women need help. But I have a hard time seeing them as predators. If you based your entire argument around the fact that it’s a wild violation of professional ethics for any teacher to sleep with their students, I’d be much more in agreement with you. That’s why it’s not ok for profs to sleep with students, even if they are doing post-grad work. Or for that matter doctors to sleep with (current) patients, or any “authority” type figure to sleep w a “subordinate.” But you’re not, you’re trying to base it on age and present the genders not as equal, but as identical and interchangeable, and i dont buy it.[/quote]
At 12 years old they are pretty much interchangeable. If you are going to hold that there is some big difference, you are going to need to show it (I’ll help you out and let you know current study shows they aren’t different, so you’ll have a hard time).
I cannot believe you guys think its okay for any adult to sleep with a 12 year old. That is seriously sick. Any adult that would do that should be locked up.
edit: Oh, and I tore apart steely’s answer.[/quote]
Come on, Duce, I know you can debate better then this
a) L-O-L as the kids say at you “tearing apart” steely’s answer.
b) are you including me in the “you guys think it’s ok for any adult to sleep…”? Did you read the part where i wrote “These situations are not ok”?
c) I have not read any study on gender differences, nor do I care to. Much like I read a lot of the studies on performance that are posted on here as a SUPPLEMENT to my own experience, not a SUBSTITUTION for. There are very real differences between boys and girls at all ages, toddlers to adults.
Beyond that, why didnt you address any other points I made?
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
Not sure sure you guys would think it would be great to bang a teacher as 12 year old when she gets pregnant and has your kid. Maybe you wouldn’t care but maybe you would and maybe you’re just not old enough to get sucked into that just yet.
Just sayin.[/quote]
Or get an STD. I mean hell, she’s got to be a slut (the sceezy kind not the kind discussed in the other thread) to sleep with 12 year old kids.
I know at 12 I wasn’t mature enough to make that decision, any adult that would have slept with me would have been taking advantage. It’s why its why they have a special name for it, statutory rape.[/quote]
Or put you through a major shitstorm as media, parents and school administrators react. That of course doesn’t address the right or wrong of it, since it is a side effect of societal response but it is again about being too young to choose whether you can handle that shit.
Being at the centre of a controversy is not an easy thing to deal with for any adult. It is too much for any kid.[/quote]
You could also say the whole construct of high fiving a 12 year old boy sleeping with a 35 year old teeacher while putting away a man sleeping with a 12 year old girl for 20 years is also nothing more than a social constuct.
No one has answered why its more wrong to sleep with a 12 year old girl.
Since no one will answer that one, how about this. A 35 year old man sleeping with a 12 year old boy. Still think a 12 year old boy is old enough to consent? If not, your differentiation has nothing to do with the child in question and you need to rethink your view.
What if a 35 year old woman is sleeping with a 12 year old girl?
If you aren’t biased the answer to all these questions including the original situation should be the same. [/quote]
Steel Nation DID answer your question. 99% of us on this forum are guys; we dont know how a 14 year old girl thinks, but we do remember how a 14 year old boy thinks. The answer to your “35 yr old man - 12 year old boy” question is the same - in all likelihood at least 90% of us are heterosexual, so we really have no idea how a 12 year old gay boy (since I am giving the question the benefit of the doubt that the participants are of the same orientation. Cuz if they’re not, then it’s definitely rape) would feel. I could go off on a tangent about how society being what it is, a 12 year old gay boy is likely to be MUCH more confused than a 12 year old hetero, unless he was raised in an extraordinarily open and accepting area, but I wont.
You are really hammering the age point far too hard. There are 20 year olds that are simply not mature enough to make a decision about who they sleep with, the precautions needed, and the potential consequences, but nobody is waving a flag for them.
Additionally, you continue the construct with the hypothetical 35 year old male. Is the size of the age gap your main point? What if it were a 21 year old student teacher and a 17 year old. Or hell, most seniors are 18 when they graduate, what if there were a 19 year old who got held back?
Look, as far as these situations - teachers, female or otherwise, sleeping with students - go, they are not ok. These women should not be teaching kids. If I were a parent, I doubt I’d want my 12 year old son sleeping with anyone, whether they were the same age as my son or not. People have asked “What could this 13 yr old have that made her want him so bad?” but in my opinion that is completely missing the point. In my thoroughly unprofessional and non-expert assessment, these women need help. But I have a hard time seeing them as predators. If you based your entire argument around the fact that it’s a wild violation of professional ethics for any teacher to sleep with their students, I’d be much more in agreement with you. That’s why it’s not ok for profs to sleep with students, even if they are doing post-grad work. Or for that matter doctors to sleep with (current) patients, or any “authority” type figure to sleep w a “subordinate.” But you’re not, you’re trying to base it on age and present the genders not as equal, but as identical and interchangeable, and i dont buy it.[/quote]
At 12 years old they are pretty much interchangeable. If you are going to hold that there is some big difference, you are going to need to show it (I’ll help you out and let you know current study shows they aren’t different, so you’ll have a hard time).
I cannot believe you guys think its okay for any adult to sleep with a 12 year old. That is seriously sick. Any adult that would do that should be locked up.
edit: Oh, and I tore apart steely’s answer.[/quote]
Come on, Duce, I know you can debate better then this
a) L-O-L as the kids say at you “tearing apart” steely’s answer.
[/quote]
If my response was laughable surely you can point out why.
Yes, that was directed at you. That was meant to be read that you believe there are situations where a child can sleep with an adult and it not be wrong. These situations being wrong goes way beyond just the violation of teacher ethics.
This is just wrong. I cannot retort an argument that ignores the scientific facts. Itâ??s like claiming the grass is terquise. There is no retort other than to say, you are simply wrong and in denial of the facts.
[quote]
Beyond that, why didnâ??t you address any other points I made?[/quote]
The graying of boundaries as the child gets older and with a younger adult? I agree it becomes a gray area. All the examples in front of us are not in that area, hence I didnâ??t respond to it.
The way a lot of people look at it:
Male teacher + 14 year old girl = Statutory rape.
Female teacher + 14 year old boy = He won the lottery.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I think the other big point people are missing is how horribly this violates teacher ethics. Its similar to a boss sleeping with a person whose job they control.
An authority figure like a teacher should never do anything like that, even if you believe a 12 year old can consent.[/quote]
This I do agree with. They are taking advantage of their position, but not the age of the kids[/quote]
Do you really classify a high school or middle school teacher as an “authority figure?” Besides, who really holds the power in the relationship? If they are found out, who stands to lose more?[/quote]
Yes, absolutely. Students, by and large, look up to their teachers. And if they don’t they set about looking for ways to skirt or undermine the teacher’s authority. So absolutely, yes I do.[/quote]
I suppose you and DD are right about that. I’m just having trouble coming up with a scenario where the teacher could use her authority to damage the student without having it completely ruin her own life.