Damn Christians are at it Again...

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

It’s fantasy to YOU. You have no idea of the actual history that surrounds Christianity and the Bible. You condemn things you know nothing about. And Christianity is the only thing that people like you are allowed to condemn without ever having read the Bible, much less actually study religion.
[/quote]

Funnily enough, it wasn’t until I actually studied Christian doctrine in an academic setting that I became militant about it.

My parents did me the favor of not indoctrinating me from early childhood. You see, children are stupid, naive, and gullible. And when they are told fantastical lies by adults who they trust unquestioningly, it is only natural that they believe those lies. The lie then becomes so familiar to them that by the time they have become intelligent enough to critically evaluate claims, it has far too strong a hold on them.

When you are spared from that cruel indoctrination, however, and you (as an intelligent adult) read things like “a snake told a woman to eat an apple” or “a man put two of every animal on Earth in a boat to survive a big flood” or “a man lived for three days inside a whale that had swallowed him” or “a virgin had a baby” or “a man walked on water” or “a guy was killed and then rose from the dead”, you have a pretty fucking difficult time respecting the book from which the stories came or, for that matter, the people who for some unspeakable reason have decided to devote their lives to the preposterous mythologies of bygone primitives.[/quote]

  1. Some children are more ‘stupid, naive and gullible’ than others.

  2. It’s not about respecting a book. It’s about respecting our own culture, tradition, heritage and our ancestors who lived their lives with more morality, modesty, discipline, courage and fortitude than we ever could.

  3. The greatest nations in history were founded on ‘mythologies’ and religion dominated every aspect of their citizens’ lives.

  4. What shared values/morals/behavioural standards will Western civilisation have in the absence of religion?

  5. Do you feel happy when you see a Victorian-era church that has been sold and turned into an ‘arts centre’ or something due to decline in attendance?

102

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Let’s leave it to the parents to tell the kids all about homosexuality. There’s a novel idea and one that lefty’s won’t like.[/quote]

Exactly where religion belongs…at home. And at Church. Not in our schools, unless it’s a religious school.

103

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]JEATON wrote:

It was the part where you were discussing the equivalent of studding the merits of the American way of life in the academic setting of the former USSR.
[/quote]

Study is study, and fact is fact. And I know stupid shit when I see it.

As for the whole “I’m twice your age” thing…get over it man. It has literally nothing to do with what I wrote.

The great existential questions with which we are dealing are not revealed to you in some ceremony on your 30th birthday. They are older and more mysterious than the sun. You know nothing more of the nature of God or the origin of matter than do I. That I am half your age is absolutely inconsequential.

And if you think it isn’t…my father is agnostic and he is 69 years old–much older than you. Will you yield to him and admit that you’re nothing but an incompetent young fool in light of his advanced age? I didn’t think so.

Really…if you want to deal with anything I put in my original post (you still haven’t in any way, shape, or form), go ahead. I welcome intelligent debate. But shouting “I’m older than you” is not intelligent debate.[/quote]

I have no wish or need to beat you up. I am having conversation. You do seem, however, to become frustrated and dig your hole deeper.
Study most certainly is not study, meaning they do not mean the same thing in all situations.
Just as the saying “practice makes perfect” is incorrect. Perfect practice makes perfect. If you are studying a topic in an academic environment where there is negative bias against that subject, you are not going to be able to examine and assemble the pieces in a meaningful and useful way.
As far as facts go, there are partial facts, clouded facts, misapplied facts. Facts are just data points, and data points can vary widely in their usefulness depending on the subject being studied. Each has its own unique variable.

Also, I could not help but to know more about the nature of God than you do, as I speak with Him daily, read his word, ect. while you admittedly file him away in the same manor as you might leprechauns or unicorns.

As for my age, it simply shows that someone can at one state of his life feel as or more strongly as you do now, and 20 years later change his thoughts 180 degrees.

As far as your father, I am truly sorry. But there is still tile left and I hope he discovers this most wonderful of gifts before his days are through.

104

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

It’s fantasy to YOU. You have no idea of the actual history that surrounds Christianity and the Bible. You condemn things you know nothing about. And Christianity is the only thing that people like you are allowed to condemn without ever having read the Bible, much less actually study religion.
[/quote]

Funnily enough, it wasn’t until I actually studied Christian doctrine in an academic setting that I became militant about it.

My parents did me the favor of not indoctrinating me from early childhood. You see, children are stupid, naive, and gullible. And when they are told fantastical lies by adults who they trust unquestioningly, it is only natural that they believe those lies. The lie then becomes so familiar to them that by the time they have become intelligent enough to critically evaluate claims, it has far too strong a hold on them.

When you are spared from that cruel indoctrination, however, and you (as an intelligent adult) read things like “a snake told a woman to eat an apple” or “a man put two of every animal on Earth in a boat to survive a big flood” or “a man lived for three days inside a whale that had swallowed him” or “a virgin had a baby” or “a man walked on water” or “a guy was killed and then rose from the dead”, you have a pretty fucking difficult time respecting the book from which the stories came or, for that matter, the people who for some unspeakable reason have decided to devote their lives to the preposterous mythologies of bygone primitives.[/quote]

Or how about the conclusions of the Jesus Seminar - conducted by 150 biblical scholars:

“The Seminar concluded that of the various statements in the “five gospels” attributed to Jesus, only about 18% of them were likely uttered by Jesus himself”.

How about some plain old fucking accuracy?

105

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

It’s fantasy to YOU. You have no idea of the actual history that surrounds Christianity and the Bible. You condemn things you know nothing about. And Christianity is the only thing that people like you are allowed to condemn without ever having read the Bible, much less actually study religion.
[/quote]

Funnily enough,[/quote]

Funnily enough?

[quote]it wasn’t until I actually studied Christian doctrine in an academic setting that I became militant about it.

My parents did me the favor of not indoctrinating me from early childhood. You see, children are stupid, naive, and gullible. And when they are told fantastical lies by adults who they trust unquestioningly, it is only natural that they believe those lies. The lie then becomes so familiar to them that by the time they have become intelligent enough to critically evaluate claims, it has far too strong a hold on them.

When you are spared from that cruel indoctrination, however, and you (as an intelligent adult) read things like “a snake told a woman to eat an apple” or “a man put two of every animal on Earth in a boat to survive a big flood” or “a man lived for three days inside a whale that had swallowed him” or “a virgin had a baby” or “a man walked on water” or “a guy was killed and then rose from the dead”, you have a pretty fucking difficult time respecting the book from which the stories came or, for that matter, the people who for some unspeakable reason have decided to devote their lives to the preposterous mythologies of bygone primitives.[/quote]

Wow I am so blown away by your wisdom I just don’t know what to say. 22 years old and you have God, religion and the whole freakin universe all figured out. And of course you can’t possibly be wrong because you’ve never ever thought something was right and then later on it turned out to be the exact opposite, no that’s never happened.

Thumbs up kid!

(eye roll)[/quote]

Another ZEB tactic - he attacks your age. Ad hominem in its many forms. You can’t possibly have a valid opinion because you’re younger than him and well, 50-something year old guys are just aren’t wrong. The problem with that is that there are millions of 50-something year old guys that don’t believe what ZEB believes and therefore, that fallacious age paradigm melts like Charlie Sheen’s face on drugs.

106

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]JEATON wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

It’s fantasy to YOU. You have no idea of the actual history that surrounds Christianity and the Bible. You condemn things you know nothing about. And Christianity is the only thing that people like you are allowed to condemn without ever having read the Bible, much less actually study religion.
[/quote]

Funnily enough, it wasn’t until I actually studied Christian doctrine in an academic setting that I became militant about it.

My parents did me the favor of not indoctrinating me from early childhood. You see, children are stupid, naive, and gullible. And when they are told fantastical lies by adults who they trust unquestioningly, it is only natural that they believe those lies. The lie then becomes so familiar to them that by the time they have become intelligent enough to critically evaluate claims, it has far too strong a hold on them.

When you are spared from that cruel indoctrination, however, and you (as an intelligent adult) read things like “a snake told a woman to eat an apple” or “a man put two of every animal on Earth in a boat to survive a big flood” or “a man lived for three days inside a whale that had swallowed him” or “a virgin had a baby” or “a man walked on water” or “a guy was killed and then rose from the dead”, you have a pretty fucking difficult time respecting the book from which the stories came or, for that matter, the people who for some unspeakable reason have decided to devote their lives to the preposterous mythologies of bygone primitives.[/quote]

Speaking of naivete…[/quote]

Push beat me to it.

“Funnily enough, it wasn’t until I actually studied Christian doctrine in an academic setting that I became militant about it.” Priceless.
[/quote]

Care to explain to me which substantive part of my post was so naive? Was it the part about the talking snakes? Or the living in whale?

You people are unbelievable.[/quote]

It’s the part where, faced with a claim, and unable to directly and/or quickly refute that claim or, recognizing that they cannot, they are reduced to attacking grammar or spelling. This form of fallacious “argument” is a hybrid of several, showing shared traits among numerous fallacious argument types. However, it is used so often in the pages of PWI, it deserves it’s own name.

107

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

It’s fantasy to YOU. You have no idea of the actual history that surrounds Christianity and the Bible. You condemn things you know nothing about. And Christianity is the only thing that people like you are allowed to condemn without ever having read the Bible, much less actually study religion.
[/quote]

Funnily enough,[/quote]

Funnily enough?

[quote]it wasn’t until I actually studied Christian doctrine in an academic setting that I became militant about it.

My parents did me the favor of not indoctrinating me from early childhood. You see, children are stupid, naive, and gullible. And when they are told fantastical lies by adults who they trust unquestioningly, it is only natural that they believe those lies. The lie then becomes so familiar to them that by the time they have become intelligent enough to critically evaluate claims, it has far too strong a hold on them.

When you are spared from that cruel indoctrination, however, and you (as an intelligent adult) read things like “a snake told a woman to eat an apple” or “a man put two of every animal on Earth in a boat to survive a big flood” or “a man lived for three days inside a whale that had swallowed him” or “a virgin had a baby” or “a man walked on water” or “a guy was killed and then rose from the dead”, you have a pretty fucking difficult time respecting the book from which the stories came or, for that matter, the people who for some unspeakable reason have decided to devote their lives to the preposterous mythologies of bygone primitives.[/quote]

Wow I am so blown away by your wisdom I just don’t know what to say. 22 years old and you have God, religion and the whole freakin universe all figured out. And of course you can’t possibly be wrong because you’ve never ever thought something was right and then later on it turned out to be the exact opposite, no that’s never happened.

Thumbs up kid!

(eye roll)[/quote]

Did you know that the bulk of atheists in the US (and probably abroad) are young males? Do you think that’s a coincidence?

Just some food for thought - [/quote]

Here we go with yet another fallacious causation argument based on a well-funded, double-blind, statistically normalized study of one.

108

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]JEATON wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

It’s fantasy to YOU. You have no idea of the actual history that surrounds Christianity and the Bible. You condemn things you know nothing about. And Christianity is the only thing that people like you are allowed to condemn without ever having read the Bible, much less actually study religion.
[/quote]

Funnily enough, it wasn’t until I actually studied Christian doctrine in an academic setting that I became militant about it.

My parents did me the favor of not indoctrinating me from early childhood. You see, children are stupid, naive, and gullible. And when they are told fantastical lies by adults who they trust unquestioningly, it is only natural that they believe those lies. The lie then becomes so familiar to them that by the time they have become intelligent enough to critically evaluate claims, it has far too strong a hold on them.

When you are spared from that cruel indoctrination, however, and you (as an intelligent adult) read things like “a snake told a woman to eat an apple” or “a man put two of every animal on Earth in a boat to survive a big flood” or “a man lived for three days inside a whale that had swallowed him” or “a virgin had a baby” or “a man walked on water” or “a guy was killed and then rose from the dead”, you have a pretty fucking difficult time respecting the book from which the stories came or, for that matter, the people who for some unspeakable reason have decided to devote their lives to the preposterous mythologies of bygone primitives.[/quote]

Speaking of naivete…[/quote]

Push beat me to it.

“Funnily enough, it wasn’t until I actually studied Christian doctrine in an academic setting that I became militant about it.” Priceless.
[/quote]

Care to explain to me which substantive part of my post was so naive? Was it the part about the talking snakes? Or the living in whale?

You people are unbelievable.[/quote]

It’s the part where, faced with a claim, and unable to directly and/or quickly refute that claim or, recognizing that they cannot, they are reduced to attacking grammar or spelling. This form of fallacious “argument” is a hybrid of several, showing shared traits among numerous fallacious argument types. However, it is used so often in the pages of PWI, it deserves it’s own name.[/quote]

Hold back there Skippy. I answered his question myself with plan language. I could care less if he wrote funnily. And I am not a “they.” Got a question for me? Ask me.

Notice that I have not called anyone laughable, ignorant, naive, (yet).

Truth is, other than a very few general things, you do not have a clue as to what or how I believe.

109

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]JEATON wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

It’s fantasy to YOU. You have no idea of the actual history that surrounds Christianity and the Bible. You condemn things you know nothing about. And Christianity is the only thing that people like you are allowed to condemn without ever having read the Bible, much less actually study religion.
[/quote]

Funnily enough, it wasn’t until I actually studied Christian doctrine in an academic setting that I became militant about it.

My parents did me the favor of not indoctrinating me from early childhood. You see, children are stupid, naive, and gullible. And when they are told fantastical lies by adults who they trust unquestioningly, it is only natural that they believe those lies. The lie then becomes so familiar to them that by the time they have become intelligent enough to critically evaluate claims, it has far too strong a hold on them.

When you are spared from that cruel indoctrination, however, and you (as an intelligent adult) read things like “a snake told a woman to eat an apple” or “a man put two of every animal on Earth in a boat to survive a big flood” or “a man lived for three days inside a whale that had swallowed him” or “a virgin had a baby” or “a man walked on water” or “a guy was killed and then rose from the dead”, you have a pretty fucking difficult time respecting the book from which the stories came or, for that matter, the people who for some unspeakable reason have decided to devote their lives to the preposterous mythologies of bygone primitives.[/quote]

Speaking of naivete…[/quote]

Push beat me to it.

“Funnily enough, it wasn’t until I actually studied Christian doctrine in an academic setting that I became militant about it.” Priceless.
[/quote]

Care to explain to me which substantive part of my post was so naive? Was it the part about the talking snakes? Or the living in whale?

You people are unbelievable.[/quote]

It’s the part where, faced with a claim, and unable to directly and/or quickly refute that claim or, recognizing that they cannot, they are reduced to attacking grammar or spelling. This form of fallacious “argument” is a hybrid of several, showing shared traits among numerous fallacious argument types. However, it is used so often in the pages of PWI, it deserves it’s own name.[/quote]

lol I noticed that three people jumped on the word “funnily.” Which is great because that is said correctly. If you say “funny enough” it’s like saying “odd enough” instead of “oddly enough.”

But that’s definitely more important than addressing the undeniably stupid Judeo-Christian drivel that I listed in my post, right…

110

[quote]JEATON wrote:

Also, I could not help but to know more about the nature of God than you do, as I speak with Him daily, read his word, ect. while you admittedly file him away in the same manor as you might leprechauns or unicorns.
[/quote]

I do have to note here that this isn’t entirely true. I do put most of the Bible’s stories in the same cabinet as unicorns and the lucky charms leprechaun, that’s true. But I believe in God. I just don’t believe in your God, or Allah, or Yahweh, or Krshna, or any of the other make-believes.

I think that the most likely explanation for the existence of matter lies in a being outside of the laws of physics. I simply can’t wrap my head around eternal regress. So, I am an agnostic who leans toward believing in a creator.

However, I believe that it is unspeakably arrogant for men and women to think that they know not only that God exists beyond any doubt (they don’t), but also that they know His nature and will (they don’t) and speak to him daily (they don’t).

111

Now I want you go back and think really hard how the United States of America became the greatest nation in the world. Was it by promoting homosexuality? Or, was it by having a strong Judeo/Christain base?

Are you serious? Your country didn’t become the greatest country in the world by having a strong Judeo/Christian base, it became the greatest country in the world a) through slavery b) through having an enormous wealth of primary resources, combined with a giant ever-expanding labour force of hard working immigrants, and c) through staying out of both world wars for as long as possible, while making astronomical profits from exporting manufactured goods (and, for the record, I am not shitting on America for doing so; I wouldn’t have wanted to get dragged into that shit either).

Your country was founded largely by a cadre of enlightened atheists, diests, and agnostics who favoured the separation of church and state. You should keep their vision alive by keeping the two separate. God has no place inside schools. Teach your kids Christian values at home, take them to church, but don’t force your internally incoherent fairy tales of my kids at school. They’re there to learn, not to be indoctrinated.

Lastly, you Christians have to lighten-up on the gays. Some people are born homosexual; that’s just reality. Get over it.

112

[quote]squat junky wrote:

Your country was founded largely by a cadre of enlightened atheists, diests, and agnostics who favoured the separation of church and state. You should keep their vision alive by keeping the two separate. God has no place inside schools. Teach your kids Christian values at home, take them to church, but don’t force your internally incoherent fairy tales of my kids at school. They’re there to learn, not to be indoctrinated.

Lastly, you Christians have to lighten-up on the gays. Some people are born homosexual; that’s just reality. Get over it.[/quote]

THIS.

113

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

Another ZEB tactic - he attacks your age. Ad hominem in its many forms. You can’t possibly have a valid opinion because you’re younger than him and well, 50-something year old guys are just wrong. The problem with that is that there are millions of 50-something year old guys that don’t believe what ZEB believes and therefore, that fallacious age paradigm melts like Charlie Sheen’s face on drugs. [/quote]

I can only compare you to that piece of crap that one occasionally steps in. No matter how hard you try to scrape it off the smell just follows you around. Just as you follow me from thread to thread. What is it that bothers you? The fact that I’ve shown you to be an intellectual light weight, and in fact a cut and paste fraud? Well consider this my effort to scrape you off the bottom of my shoe.

I far prefer being a 50’sh guy who occasionally chides a 22 year old on his lack of experience on various political/religious topics than a 40 something guy like you who gives homemade porn lessons to 22 year old’s. But that is what you do. And that’s not all, you are behind a list of questionable posts.

From a lengthy post on how to make better pornography. And no it wasn’t a joke you fielded plenty of questions on the topic from 20 year old’s. You were their “porn guru”. To a thread that you began on how to Chloroform people and then duck tape them. Yes everyone you read that correctly. Now I think we all know what purpose possessing such knowledge would serve.

And when you’re not jotting off your usual perverted posts you’re busy bullying women. I can’t count the number of posts that I quickly reviewed where you beat down a female who had the temerity to actually stand up to you. Time and again you out shouted your victims with a litany of profanity’s. It seems like you prey on weakness, especially if the victim is female. But that is after all what a bully does.

And it was rather easy to find these posts (I can link you if they like we both know where they are). Every time your name came up it was attached to something sleazy, or border line illegal. I literally took the first few posts I found, I can’t imagine what else is out there. And quite frankly I think I’d rather look directly into the sun than read another one of your disgusting posts. If you had a modicum of dignity left (do you?) you would tip toe out of here because no one with an ounce of integrity on either side of the political spectrum is impressed by you.

What you should be doing is trying to be a good example to your young son. What would he want his father to be doing in his spare time? I assure you it would not be bullying women on the Internet, or giving pornography lessons to 20 something’s. And no doubt he would be appalled by your desire to learn how to chloroform and duct tape people.

Once again, get help, instead of stalking me around the Internet you should be in therapy. Because in the long run you’re likely to lose far more than your wife and whatever she took with her if you don’t clean up your act.

114

Sorry to post this but after spending some time in PWI I have to ask… how many of you people actually train? I know ‘Push’ does. I can’t find a post on a ‘training’ thread in most of your profiles. I can’t find pics or vids of lifts etc.

You guys know there are sites JUST for debating things like this. :smiley:

Seriously though. I think public education is a joke we told ourselves a long time ago and have long since forgotten the punch line. We are arguing this drivel while many schools have 30 or more children in class per educator? The school systems in many parts of our country are underfunded and the teachers unqualified and in some cases, deviant.

Going along with the original post, I think what your community is doing at large is beautiful. Even though I do NOT agree with teaching any part of any religion in school, we are a country facing manifold failures of public systems and services. Our public education system needs help badly, and I’m tired of believing the government can or should be any part of the solution.

If anything is going to get any better, I believe it will involve communities caring enough about the academic development of their children enough to pool their resources and time to improving it. What this will look like in many rural areas will likely be a combination of secular and religiously backed entities. That a community at large who are by vast majority of a particular religious belief, will try to involve their teachings in academia is a given. That activist groups will advocate for the smallest minority within that area is a given.

I don’t understand the heat on either side really. If you don’t have more of an influence on your child’s most deeply held beliefs than their school does, you are failing on a very deep level. I am a parent of a teenage son so I have at least a little clout. Just my two cents.

EDIT: Double D, sorry I didn’t say you to. 10 years training, (2 PLing)

115

[quote]Vires Eternus wrote:
Sorry to post this but after spending some time in PWI I have to ask… how many of you people actually train? I know ‘Push’ does. I can’t find a post on a ‘training’ thread in most of your profiles. I can’t find pics or vids of lifts etc.

[/quote]

I don’t really post in the training threads. I started lifting in high school and under a different user name read the bodybuilding forums religiously and asked a good amount of questions. That was years ago though. These day I come on here for the articles and the supps store.

While I’m on the site, though, I like debating things in the PWI forum though because a lot of these people are smart and the topics interest me. I spend enough time planning and executing my workouts in real life, I really don’t often feel the need to discuss it much anymore.

117

[quote]Vires Eternus wrote:
Sorry to post this but after spending some time in PWI I have to ask… how many of you people actually train? [/quote]I had 6000 plus posts in the training forums before here and I will match my training intensity against anybody here. I do still need to get some pics, but there are reasons why that will be difficult now. I have gained about 45 lean pounds as an over 40 guy in the last 5 years.

118

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Vires Eternus wrote:
Sorry to post this but after spending some time in PWI I have to ask… how many of you people actually train? [/quote]I had 6000 plus posts in the training forums before here and I will match my training intensity against anybody here. I do still need to get some pics, but there are reasons why that will be difficult now. I have gained about 45 lean pounds as an over 40 guy in the last 5 years.
[/quote]

Damn fine! Just had to wonder, though. Anyone else want to post numbers? My profile’s open and I post vids. Some impressive, some pretty stupid. I’d just like to see if, while posting these discussions on a training site, our collective brawn keeps up with the brain.

120

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Vires Eternus wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Vires Eternus wrote:
Sorry to post this but after spending some time in PWI I have to ask… how many of you people actually train? [/quote]I had 6000 plus posts in the training forums before here and I will match my training intensity against anybody here. I do still need to get some pics, but there are reasons why that will be difficult now. I have gained about 45 lean pounds as an over 40 guy in the last 5 years.
[/quote]

Damn fine! Just had to wonder, though. Anyone else want to post numbers? My profile’s open and I post vids. Some impressive, some pretty stupid. I’d just like to see if, while posting these discussions on a training site, our collective brawn keeps up with the brain.[/quote]

My numbers are in the TCA’s PR thread for the most part.[/quote]

I have a log.