Dad needs help - youth sports

In my experience this encapsulated both the fun and valuable lessons that can be internalized in sports.

The grind and games themselves were enjoyable overall but ran a gamut from downright shitty to feeling on top of the world. The ability to self-manage through shitty to on top was an early lesson that adults often have a hard time coming to terms with.

As an aside and general comment to the thread, I’ve never understood joining a sport and not competing. Sports exist for competition. If you just want to have fun go play frisbee golf or have a nerf war or something.

I again see a line between being an overbearing parent living through kids & helping a child through difficulty in a controlled environment until they can realize value themselves and see sports as perfect for this, especially as a kid starts to slip and has to put in work. His disinterest is very possibly occurring because he feels like he is failing now and he wants to quit, which would be terrible to instill.

Imagine walking in to job interviews later and if honest telling the employer “I’m not really here to accomplish anything, I don’t want to be challenged to grow and I really just want to have fun. As soon as it feels hard I’m going to quit”.

Fuck that.

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For interactive sports, I understand that there are different leagues with different levels of competition and focus on participation vs. winning. That makes perfect sense since you can’t play hockey or football and such without having interactive games. You can vary how seriously you take the score in those games, but you just don’t have that sport without the games. It feels different for non-interactive sports where competition is inherently focused on winning since you can do “participation” without even going to the competition. But they create the competition anyways and then ride the line between competition and participation trying to be everything to everyone.

Isn’t gymnastics a sport featured in the Olympic Games competition?

I guess I’m saying that I don’t see any problem with having competitions for gymnastics, archery, bowling or any other game you can play by yourself. In fact, I think it is generally a good thing to measure yourself against your peers at just about any age.

I could see problems arising if the people running the competition are trying to please every parent.

I feel like that is the VAST majority of this site. Lots of folks lifting, very folks competing in bodybuilding, strongman, powerlifting, crossfit, etc. I can understand it.

What sport ?

There’s a difference between exercising in general and competing though.

The problem isn’t people using weights for exercise.

It would be weird for someone to sign up for a powerlifting competition or bodybuilding show and then never get out of their comfort zone during training & prep, show up just to have fun, lose definitively and not have accomplished a single thing physically or mentally through the process. Just go be an exerciser.

What I’m reading in this thread is a kid is involved in a sport (or competition) that he does enjoy. He rode inherent talent for a while and other kids who are presumably putting in more work are now catching him. Instead of digging in and building on his inherent talent to improve and compete, he’s caving and quitting. To each their own but this isn’t a scenario I would encourage either actively or passively.

If he just doesn’t give a shit legitimately then fine, work on aligning and developing interests. But that’s not what I’m personally reading.

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Ah, I would consider that to actually be competing: that explains my confusion.

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It’s the fun part for me too.

I agree, and place myself in this category. That’s why I don’t chime in on any competition threads - other people know more, so what am I going to add?

Never miss a good chance to shut up.

But the people who do are inspirational. Think about Pumping Iron where Arnold is just working out and “it’s like cumming”, but Lou is screaming “Arnold!” on every rep.

It’s the same tools but the motivation is different.

This. It’s like the saying “people don’t quit jobs, they quit bosses.”

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I’m not contending that gymnastics can’t be a serious sport. The question is what does competition mean when it’s a casual sport.

It’s the same way that I felt about amateur strongman competitions. I did some competitions and while they were fun, it’s not like I am going to go pro anytime soon. So then it started to feel like I was paying some money and travelling to get some people to watch me lift weights. Occasionally you get access to some cool equipment that I wouldn’t have otherwise gotten to mess around with. But ultimately it started to feel flat for me.

I fully realize this is a subjective judgment and there are lots of reasons that a person may or may not compete. But I also can’t brush aside the idea that competing at a low or even intermediate level in a non-interactive sport feels somewhat performative.

I understand. I never had any real interest in competitive lifting but I still enjoyed pushing the limits with my personal lifting.

Kids athletics is different than adults playing sports for hobbies. It doesn’t necessarily have to be, but I still think some form of competition is good for most kids.

Most kids will have to compete as adults whether they want to or not.

I read it as a parent with mixed feelings about his own reactions.

The kid, his abilities, and all that are secondary, if they’re up for any consideration at all.

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Spent a lot of time watching my daughter play travel soccer on Long Island. If you know, you know.

When they won, she rode home with mom.

When they lost, she rode home with me.

My post game debrief was always, “Did you play hard? Did you have fun? Were you a good team mate?”

Never about winning or losing.

We are in the very early stages of sports and activities in general. My daughter is enrolled in a few activities to both test interest and so she can begin learning things.

I intentionally chose taekwondo as an activity for the discipline and lessons it instills aside from the kicking and fun.

They cover many ideas and even thought processes systematically and one slogan they drill and recite as part of their belt progression at her age (Cubs) is “Winners never quit and quitters never win, I’m not a quitter, I’m a winner!”

At this age they don’t do forms and they do test on various kicks, defense stances et cetera however everybody passes if they show some semblance of understanding. They do have to know the various phrases and lessons they are taught (which will be replaced by forms later).

Our questions are similar to yours with your daughter because we want her to enjoy the experience enough to keep doing it and do it enthusiastically as we know she is absorbing values with experiences.

Through her toddler phase and pre-taekwondo we worked hard to redirect frustrated emotion to desire to find a way by suggesting trying again, trying a different way and finally asking for help. It worked a little, and I know age was a factor as she got better at managing emotion but as early as four at taekwondo she began reciting the winner phrase unprompted through frustrations in and out of taekwondo.

And she has used to it draw on for tough activities like finishing monkey bars, building Lincoln log sets, counting to 200, and all the small things that are giant challenges at her age. She can pass kindergarten right now and starts next fall. She has even managed to learn some Spanish. Not taekwondo related directly but she takes it upon herself to learn and she actually embraces challenge and it’s because the value of working through and getting on top has been instilled already, with any easily digestible catch phrase we were able to explain internalized to pivot on.

And this is where I would revisit the posts earlier about creating structure and leading through it. Become the highway. Be an open road but with lanes and dividers. Keep quitting and the thought spiral it devolves in to on the other side, in the opposite direction.

Love them in loss and struggle, sympathize then encourage. Instill drive and desire towards a goal achievement (winning an event in a controlled athletic scenario) which is initially beyond a horizon a kid can see on their own. It’s one of those funny things you have to do and then look back on to understand and appreciate. Cue a parent, coach or mentor. Someone who can pull them out of themselves and guide on the way.

It’s not a competition between being emotionally supportive and encouraging or supporting drive and tenacity as a parent. They can and should coexist. And this is true for any leadership role frankly.

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You’re both right.
I’m struggling with my emotions on how to best handle the situation, while also trying to figure out how to keep him moving forward in the sport he says he loves and is his favorite.

I want him to learn the value of work and effort, but I also want him to be a kid. One of the kids he competes against does nothing other than swim / practice, while one of his good buddies only plays video games and plays D&D. I want to find the middle ground (and not give as many f*cks along the way). Haha

The feedback and different perspectives have all been helpful. I’m neither a perfect man nor parent—I have room to grow.

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This is completely anecdotal and I realize there are a myriad of other factors at play but I remember a friend growing up, and we ultimately sort of went down different paths and moved on, who basically lived for video games.

As little kids we would play outside, go fishing, ride bikes, compete over any random thing, just do kid stuff. He was very fast and good at youth sports. As junior high came around he also saw his inherent speed and talents eclipsed by kids who worked harder and out of his control were more favored by puberty.

He never really fought to be good after that. It was like he just kind of felt like he had met his level. Peaked at 13 you could say. He got really in to video games, which he probably used a bunch of cheat codes for.

Anyways, it’s been years but last I heard he was an adult living at home and worked at a video game store for years, then moved up to retail cell phone sales. His parents never pushed him, never challenged him. His mom was the super enabling type, anything for her little baby to feel happy and coddled.

Thats the best kind! :+1:

The ones that have it all figured out, well, good for them. For everyone else, it can be pretty difficult and frustrating. Awesome, but difficult.