Cycling Protocols, Re-working an Old Favourite

Pharma
1

OK… so the diamond pattern was discontinued a while ago now and for obvious reasons - orals usually this was implemented as most injectables have a natural taper in and out of a cycle really.

I used it for my first cycle in 1998, and it worked lovely, as soon as i started taking 6 dianabols a day, 3 weeks into the cycle i grew!!! lmao!

So we see for orals it is a little stupid, but what about the oils… specifically the ones that make US wait.

(we already paid, now you expect us to wait? FUCK YOU “drug” if that is what you really are…)

ANYWAY… why is it that Test for example takes 5 weeks to present effect? It isnt the half-life/whole life of the drug… is it due to build up in the total dose, and would it be better to front load properly and accurately - worked out from the half lives over a 5 week period?

OR is it just a matter of the receptors being activated by these supra-physiological levels of this hormone for that amount of time and it would still kick in, and with the required effect, if the dose was tapered into - or less n the early weeks as all we need is activation by the drug at this point? (With the sole purpose of using less total product to get to the actual effective point of the cycle)

For Eg,

MODEL 1)

Wk1-250mg
Wk2-250mg
Wk3-375mg
Wk4-375mg
Wk5-500mg
Wk6-500mg
Wk7-continued

Would we have the same total effect as 500mg taken through weeks 1-4. Especially as we get very little from the drug during this phase.
This alone would save 1250mg! We could use that for another 2.5 weeks! Mmmm… Budgetting…

OR what about a frontload - would this allow you to start gaining from week 3?

MODEL 2)

Wk1-1000mg
Wk2-1000mg
Wk3-500mg
Wk4-continued

This uses the same amount of drug as the first 5 weeks of 500mg per week, but we have our total dose reached by the beginning of week 4, rather than the end of week 5 (thats 2 weeks!) - this would allow you to get more weeks of growth but without having to go over the 12 week limit for HPTA “recovery”
OR WOULD IT? Would we still have to wait to the 5th week and those large doses taken this early would have been a waste, lost in the abyss that is “the first few weeks where nothing works!”?

If that is the case then it MUST be possible to do this:

MODEL 3)

Wk1-500mg
Wk2-500mg
Wk3-500mg
Wk4-500mg
Wk5-1000mg
Wk6-1000mg
Wk7-continued

On this one, if the front load dose is wasted in “MODEL 2)” then we build up normally as if we are doing a 500mg cycle… and wait till week 5 -THEN, when the results are coming…, and the gates of result are flooding open… and… AND… AND… WE FLOOD the bastard with massive doses to make the most of the anabolism we are experiencing. If the 1000mg doesnt work in week 1, then it must work on week 5?!

I am not trying to “change the world” i am just an imaginative thinker - without us, no-one would have anything to laugh about in the pub so fuck you very much!

BUT… what do you say - to the guys who can help me here…?! I honestly think my logic has something here…

JJ

2

keep it simple stupid! jk i have no idea nor the knowledge to really participate here. looks good on paper though lol

3

What I’m getting is that with my proposed injectable I will start noticing its effects 4-5 weeks in due to the requirement of the build up of the hormone in my system. So hypothetically, a front load will allow me to experience the effects at an earlier date, ie 3 weeks in instead of 5.

In my case 5 weeks in I would total 3,750mg of Test E. In order to reach that same total by week three I would have to pin 1.5 grams of test in week 1 & 2 and returning to 750mg/week on week 3. It looks good on paper but in real life I would be pretty damn sketchy. Also if the kick in is not effected by the build up but by some other means, I would have wasted all that precious test. Interesting stuff JJ.

4

Not entirely sure what you’re saying JJ. I sent you a PM on a similar subject before finding this thread. So this response is more for everyone else.

I put little to no belief in the myth that it takes several weeks to see and feel the effects of longer estered products. As I said in my cycle log I started Sunday with 375mg of Test E, wednesday another 375mg of Test E. As of friday I was up 9-10lbs; in five-six days. I am absoluetly seeing feeling the effects of test e the very first week.

5

[quote]saps wrote:
Not entirely sure what you’re saying JJ. I sent you a PM on a similar subject before finding this thread. So this response is more for everyone else.

I put little to no belief in the myth that it takes several weeks to see and feel the effects of longer estered products. As I said in my cycle log I started Sunday with 375mg of Test E, wednesday another 375mg of Test E. As of friday I was up 9-10lbs; in five-six days. I am absoluetly seeing feeling the effects of test e the very first week. [/quote]

True enough, but the full effect wont be apparent till week 3-5 depending on the person, for me it is well into the 4th week and by week 5 i am ready to rock…!

I know you said that frontloading doesnt work… and i am inclined to agree… what about using the protocol where you dose 500mg (or whatever your usual dose 750mg whatever) for the first 4 weeks then on the week where you tend to “blow up” double the dose or add 50% of the current dose and take advantage of the extra test when it really matters…

What about that?

Or what about tapering the dose upwards to save on test for those of us who dont get much the first few weeks? Would the same effect at the 4-5 week mark happen even if lower doses were used in the beginning of the cycle during the weeks of no apparent effect?

i know for you saps you seem to be getting something, but as a rule of thumb it isn’t until at earliest week 4 before people start seeing results…

What about you Bushy? I know you got a bit of info to totally rubbish this idea! i am pretty sure the taper of injectables protocol is old as most old cycles have a diamond pattern even with deca/Sust/Test whatever…

Joe

6

[quote] JJ wrote:

I know you said that frontloading doesnt work… and i am inclined to agree… what about using the protocol where you dose 500mg (or whatever your usual dose 750mg whatever) for the first 4 weeks then on the week where you tend to “blow up” double the dose or add 50% of the current dose and take advantage of the extra test when it really matters…

What about that?

Or what about tapering the dose upwards to save on test for those of us who dont get much the first few weeks? Would the same effect at the 4-5 week mark happen even if lower doses were used in the beginning of the cycle during the weeks of no apparent effect?

i know for you saps you seem to be getting something, but as a rule of thumb it isn’t until at earliest week 4 before people start seeing results…

[/quote]
Again no JJ. The reason doubling your week 5 dosage won’t be more effective is the same reason front loading does not per se work that much better. If you say it takes 4 weeks for your levels to build up adequately then why would you immediately notice a double dose at week 5?

A better method is to run prop alongside for the first 3 weeks if you want the more immediate kick.

JJ not sure you’re trying to re-invent the wheel or build a better mouse trap but I don’t think you’re going to stumble onto some unproven new protocol. What we know works works for a reason and we know it for a reason too.

We could conduct an informal survey but almost all people I would bet are seeing and feeling something from longer estered test prior to week 4. I will admit my strength has not surged very much yet this first week its been my bodyweight and pump-ability. I further agree and acknowledge that my results will be all the greater come week 4 or 5 versus week 2 but I still say there is tangible evidence and proof that the Test is beginning to work. I cannot think of someone not noticing some effects a week after their first pin. So while my current cycle experience might be above average I don’t think its extra-ordinary by any means.

Finally, JJ with as many cycles as you have done can you really say you didn’t notice results or start seeing or feeling anything prior to week 4?

7

[quote]saps wrote:
JJ wrote:

I know you said that frontloading doesnt work… and i am inclined to agree… what about using the protocol where you dose 500mg (or whatever your usual dose 750mg whatever) for the first 4 weeks then on the week where you tend to “blow up” double the dose or add 50% of the current dose and take advantage of the extra test when it really matters…

What about that?

Or what about tapering the dose upwards to save on test for those of us who dont get much the first few weeks? Would the same effect at the 4-5 week mark happen even if lower doses were used in the beginning of the cycle during the weeks of no apparent effect?

i know for you saps you seem to be getting something, but as a rule of thumb it isn’t until at earliest week 4 before people start seeing results…

Again no JJ. The reason doubling your week 5 dosage won’t be more effective is the same reason front loading does not per se work that much better. If you say it takes 4 weeks for your levels to build up adequately then why would you immediately notice a double dose at week 5?

A better method is to run prop alongside for the first 3 weeks if you want the more immediate kick.

JJ not sure you’re trying to re-invent the wheel or build a better mouse trap but I don’t think you’re going to stumble onto some unproven new protocol. What we know works works for a reason and we know it for a reason too.

We could conduct an informal survey but almost all people I would bet are seeing and feeling something from longer estered test prior to week 4. I will admit my strength has not surged very much yet this first week its been my bodyweight and pump-ability. I further agree and acknowledge that my results will be all the greater come week 4 or 5 versus week 2 but I still say there is tangible evidence and proof that the Test is beginning to work. I cannot think of someone not noticing some effects a week after their first pin. So while my current cycle experience might be above average I don’t think its extra-ordinary by any means.

Finally, JJ with as many cycles as you have done can you really say you didn’t notice results or start seeing or feeling anything prior to week 4?[/quote]

I know - you are right. i just want to invent something. I always try at least… blue sky thinking!

Yeah, i do feel something before week 5 on most inj. But i have only done Test the once and that was overlapped with Nandrolone, so i couldnt say for sure. I will be able to analyze my results more accurately this next time.
The last time, i didnt notice a kick till 5, but i was a little bigger, and stronger but i thought that was the nandro… but it was real crap, so i coulodnt be sure!
As i said, next time.

It isnt that i was trying to re-invent the wheel, as when others do it pisses me ff! But just interested in finding out a little about the specific dymamics of dosing and action of drug.

Saps, what about the last one… the taper in. i know this WAS used with results in the past… say:

Wk1- Cyp 200mg Deca 200mg DBOL 350mg
Wk2- Cyp 400mg Deca 200mg DBOL 350mg
Wk3- Cyp 400mg Deca 400mg DBOL 350mg
Wk4- Cyp 600mg Deca 400mg DBOL 350mg
Wk5- Cyp 600mg Deca 400mg DBOL 350mg
Wk6- Cyp 600mg Deca 400mg DBOL 350mg
Wk7- Cyp 600mg Deca 400mg
Wk8- Cyp 600mg Deca 400mg
Wk9- Cyp 600mg Deca 400mg
Wk10-Cyp 200mg Deca 400mg

This is very similar to the diamond cycles of the 90’s and it worked for 20 years between the 80’s and 2000 or so…

I was wondering if it would have a lesser effect if compared to a steady state cycle as above but with 600mg, 400mg and the 350mg for the duration of week 1 through to 10 - respectively.
Is it a valid way to dose, or more accurately, why was it changed? What were its flaws?

Joe

8

I don’t understand the thinking behind tapering in; I just don’t. Under the protocol you listed above. By the start of week 4 you would only have pumped 1000mg of Cyp in versus 1800mg if you did a steady 600mg EW. If your concern is not having good results into week 4. Do you think your results would be better at the start of week 4 by having put 1000mg or 1800mg of Cyp into your system by then?

Also as a side not the above listed cycle would be a titanic mistake. In week 10 start reducing Test and maintaining a Deca level at double the Test dosage. You might just be typing for typing sake but I must point it out just incase you weren’t.

9


Cycle
Test
Week 1 - Week 99004994909454323…

10

[quote]saps wrote:
I don’t understand the thinking behind tapering in; I just don’t. Under the protocol you listed above. By the start of week 4 you would only have pumped 1000mg of Cyp in versus 1800mg if you did a steady 600mg EW. If your concern is not having good results into week 4. Do you think your results would be better at the start of week 4 by having put 1000mg or 1800mg of Cyp into your system by then?

Also as a side not the above listed cycle would be a titanic mistake. In week 10 start reducing Test and maintaining a Deca level at double the Test dosage. You might just be typing for typing sake but I must point it out just incase you weren’t.[/quote]

Yeah i wasnt thinking about that - it was to point out the taper in really more than anything.

Your point is valid, but that is the point, would less gear in this situation give the same results, seeing as more gear doesnt give great results in the first few weeks.
This is a well used protocol, and i want to know what is so wrong with tapering in a long ester injectable. (forget the deca, was just a loose example)

DOES it actually reduce effects in comparison to a steady state dose cycle? What is the reasons we switched to the same dose throughoput - do we know or did we just follow the leader on this one?
IS it more productive to use that much gear in the early stages?

I know you think it is saps… i just want a few points of view.

Joe

11

[quote]retailboy wrote:
Cycle
Test
Week 1 - Week 99004994909454323…[/quote]

?