this aint talking shit bud , its just annoying hearing somebody try to mother me on dangerous substances they use themselves, the sole reason i do this is for max gains, not for the bandwagon ride.
Yea, shoulders, traps and upper chest are a good sign of androgensā¦ But if its androgens you want, do tren.
Tren is my all time favourite. I dont get any sides besides some cough here and there, and just producing lots of heat, which my girl loves about that cuz shes always cold, lol.
Anyways, i am not a big fan of orals for muscle building. I like Anavar for the look, and i love Stanazolol for the strength but if you want to build size your best bet is :
1)Test up to 1 gram
2)Tren E up to 1 gram, or Ace up to 750
3)EQ up to 1 gram.
The doses are the MAX, so you start somewhere halfway, see how it goes. That is what most big guys take. I am 6ā2 and the biggest i have been i was around 260 - probably in my profile pic.
So start half way, up the dose if needed. Most important is FOOD. Food is 99% of the gains. On that cycle id like to gain at least 0,5-0,7lbs a week. If weight is not moving either food is not enough or training is fucked.
If calories increase a lot, you can also add small doses of insulin(200% safe, as opposed to morons who claim that if you overshoot it you can dieā¦ i have overshot it 100 timesā¦ unless you take 1000ius instead of 10 which is like the whole pen, its completely safe as long as you have some candy on hand for safety).
Of course, GH up to 10ius a day if you can afford it. @Bauber is one of the biggest guys here, he did smth similar, but also added Deca to the mix.
Im not saying anyone should do it but im saying - you can start somewhere in low ranges, or just pick a couple of compounds, and slowly work up if needed and then add the others. It will give you a playground for some 3 yearsā¦
Also, you would blast for at least 9months and then do a 3 month cruise.
But againā¦ if you dont eat enough to gain weight weekly, its pointless to do.
Keep in mind, that all that will cost a lot more than just some average test dose and a pack of anadrol. Sadly, this shit is someway a bit about the money. The more money you spend, the more you can get and take, the more POTENTIAL you have.
This is just my opinion and experience on stuff. I hope the ā200mgs of test a week is what Cbum takesā police wont throw stones at me 
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I donāt think this is true. We donāt all have the same goals. Many of us here have thought about risk reward a lot. We come to different conclusions about what we are willing to do.
It sounds like you want to be big and are willing to take a lot. If thatās the case listen to @hankthetank89. His advice about using mostly injectables, using fairly high doses, and using for longer periods is what will get you the most muscle, and IMO the best physique. Comes with the most cost too (and this isnāt just dying early). It costs a lot of money (medical stuff like blood work can be as much as the gear), It likely will have long term cosmetic costs (stuff like going bald, acne scars, or aging skin).
You talk about 35 like it is some distant age that will seem like a long time. I am 35, and 25 felt like it was only like 3 years ago. I started taking testosterone about 5 years ago, and even since then my perspective has changed. Iāve learned that my original goal would have required more than what I am willing to give. I now more or less just want to be questionable if I am on gear or not while staying pretty lean. I cruise on 160 mg/wk Test E, and I blast infrequently (less than once a year). Iāll probably do a blast here soon at like 400 mg/wk. Why so low? Because I want it to be sustainable. No sense in blasting a gram of test and a gram of tren to then cruise on 160 mg/wk. Almost all the gains will go away with time. The blasting and cruising doses should be related IMO.
If you realize your goal requires you to cruise on 500 mg/wk test, and blast 2 grams of gear for 9 months out of the year, and you have to keep doing that until youāre ready to be done, I think it is worth it to think āis this really worth it to me?ā. Maybe it is. It isnāt for most, and that is why there is only a few here like Hank (which is his decision, and I respect that). We just have different goals, which is fine.
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this is the answer ive been looking for, thank youš could i replace my orals with deca?
why dont you like orals? they seem to be pretty effective is there any particular reason why?
i wanna hit 200 before touching tren to max its effects , the orals seem to help me put on decent size.
also , my diet is way better than before, i eat to the point i have a hard time sleeping sometimes , i still feel like im not growinf fast enough, then again i only started about 2 months ago and added 10+lbs so maybe its body dysmorphia , my watch barely fits me anymore from being able to swing side to side. only problem is actually consistency with the food, im a roofer so pays arent always optimal one week ill eat like a king the next ill be hungry 3 days of the week , i try to make up for it wirh mass gainer shakes tho.
i found an easy breakfast hack with tuna & mayo , easy af to make and high calories &protein + 4 raw eggs / 1400calories & ~85 g of protein in the mornings, chicken breast strip for lunch +45g & super is huge /4 chicken burgers, brown rice, hash browns & massgainer shake with 4 raw eggs + ~110g is this enough?
At 6ā3" you should be able to get to a lean 200 lbs naturally. I donāt mean disrespect, but I think you need to learn how to gain more than you need drugs.
To look big and jacked at 6ā3", youāre going to need to weigh a minimum of 230 lbs. Thatās if you have good genetics too. If you donāt you will need to weigh more. Youāre using more than I have to get to 200 lbs. What do you expect you will have to take to actually be big and jacked?
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everybody starts somewhere thefuck? im somali skinny by nature ive always been super skinny i shit everything right out, im eating more than my gut can handle right now and spend 2 hours in the gym after 10hour shifts of the hardest labor work out there and still push the same numbers as the big guys, i cant make miracles happen but this should give me the edge i need, what more do you want? i put on 10lbs in barely 2 months the previous weight gain from 155~160 was from doing weighted pushups & pullups on the daily with protein shakes for over a year, then i started using a gym and started growing more.
i know guys who are 5ā8 230 without training, i know guys who are 6ā7 180 like me , everybody is built different.
im the definition of hard gainer , simply eating more wont do shit while natty ive done it before and im still doing that, so what now?
Yesā¦ Id say 1g of test and 1g of deca or 750NPP as the max dose on these.
They are just bad for everything. First is the potential liver damage. Then its the potential acne and shitty skin. But what pisses me off the most is the fucking acid reflux. For me, at least, if i do them long and on a bulk, if i roll over in my sleep on my stomach, i vomit some liquid acid in my mouth and i cant get that taste away for the rest of the night. And when that is not happening i get the heartburn thing 3x times a day. So i guess they are bad for my stomach. One thing is dying of a heart attack which if lucky is just BOOM - DEAD. Something else is being kinda alive but getting in line for liver transplants, or having some sort of stomach cancer that just kills all the fun. So approach to steroids is - if its a heart attack, im fine. But what i dont wanna do is kill some of my organs and remain alive. So as far as my heart is good(which i do check) i need my other organs working along and i kinda believe that orals do fuck up stuff more than anything.
Myea, but do they? They tend to give a lot of water weight. Esp shit like anadrol and dbol. That is 0 muscle. Its just water retention.
1)Taking 100-150 anadrol a day is way less toxic than tren
2)With tren - what you see is what you get sizewise because it doesnt bloat. When you drop the anadrol you piss away half the āgainsā 3 days after.
3)The size you gain will also be needed to maintain. And you cant maintain orals. I think taking large doses of orals is pretty shit idea. But i am sure you can take large doses of test and deca for years and be ok-ish. Not a smart idea, but what i mean is - the bigger you get the more you need to maintain so there is no point of taking stuff you cant take smaller doses of forever.
I need total calories. I never cared for macros. If you eat somewhat normal foods, at 5000kcal a day your protein will be fine no matter what, so i dont count macros, i just go for calories. If weight gain stops, i bump 500kcal up. You really need to know the calories.
I have to agree on this. At 6ā2 i started gym when i was 14. I was 200lbs when i was around 18-19. Then i started steroids and i was around 230lbs fat, which turned into 220lbs super lean, when i was fighting.
Nowdays im 260lbs on a bulk, 245-250 when lean.
But yea, i agree that if you dont get fat natty, it means you dont eat enough. There is only 1 sign which tells us that we have enough food to growā¦ we get fat. If your bodyfat is not increasing, you never really know if you are growing at full potential.
When we take this much steroids, it is smarter to get max benefit and some fat, and then just torch it with tren and GH in a month.
Now if you take so much drugs and you remain lean, you maybe grow at 10% of the possible speed you could have. You just never know.
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i was 6ā2 147lbs when i startedā¦ and yes, eating is the hardest partā¦ when i bulk i cant tie my shoes because the food comes up and spills out of my mouthā¦ sometimes in the middle of the night i woke up with vomit and food in my mouthā¦
sometimes its diarrhea 3 times a dayā¦ its constant smelly farts - sometimes like 1 every 3 minutes.
i have to eat so much, i actually wake up to catch the breath because i sometimes stop breathing on a bulk at nightsā¦
it is horrible, but trust me - you probably are still eating too littleā¦
count the caloriesā¦ with 10hour work shifts of manual labour id say you :
1)Need at least 6000kcal a dayā¦
2)You cant afford to train for 2 hoursā¦ you are wasting even more food after the workā¦ id find a way to train no more than 45mins. 1 hour max. Every useless rep you do, is a calorie burned that needs to be replaced with food which still hasnt even digested yet.
damn 
so if i finish my anadrol cycle and hop on deca right away will i still lose those gaind or would they harden with the new stuff?
my guy says npp is worth it so im debating that as well, recommendation?
are empty calories a thing or can i eat anything? my boys on tren say they eat cake and it goes to muscle which i believe because theyre all little mini hulks but im not on that so im worried about the excessive fats, im taking vegan mass gainer and shit because im lactose intollerent which makes it alot harder but my shakes still contain about 1500 a bottle.
i am gaining body fat tho im losing my abs even tho i train them often and feel them growing underneath, so good sign??
i feel like i literally cannot eat more i cant bend down and im tired at work because i have to sit in bed at night sometimes from being too full -.- i can try adding food throughout the day i guess but im eating mostly lean shit like chicken breast strips, 6k calories almost seems impossible for me im gagging at 4~4.5k 
so how should i destroy my muscles then within that time frame? i do 2 muscle groups a session , i pyramid ,7 sets up & down 3 different excersises then burnout on a medium weight till i can barely move that body part, then the same with 2nd muscle group , its just alot but if i dont do that i feel like i havent done enough?
im nearing my reply limit, would it be possible for you to dm me so we can actually figure this out you seem like the type of guy i wanna take advice from tbh i dont give a fuck about protocols i only care about results and you seem the same way
My point is that you shouldnāt start your lifting journey with steroids. There is a lot to learn. Some of it is how you need to eat to grow. Some is how you need to train to grow. Some of it is learning that this shit takes time.
I donāt need the same strategies as you do. It is individual. My body seems to do fine with hunger signalling. I donāt have to try to eat extra to gain. If I am training hard enough, I get hungry enough and eat to support the training. Getting really lean, is more tough for me. I have to use tricks Iāve learned over time to make that easier.
How long have you been doing this? Donāt expect to gain a lot if its only been a few months, and especially if you donāt eat enough.
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i did body weight and calisthenics for over a year because the gf thought it was hot so i kinda had my base down before the gym, but yeah youre right it is still very early im kicking myself for no reason. and idk what else to do for food except more shakes man im literall eating more than both my parents and brother combined, i just have insane metabolism and have a hard time putting on weight, can i eat āempty caloriesā ? like candy and shit to fill those gaps or is that useless because ill literally puke if i eat more
Deca will take around 5 weeks to fully kick in. Anadrol will take a few days to clear out. Simple math. Yes, you will lose the BLOAT. But those are not the gains. The thing with stuff like anadrol and dbol is that you never really know what is gains and what is water.
NPP bloats less than Deca, but its also 100mg per ML, which means its twice as expensive as Deca and you will have to pin a lot more volume.
I would still suggest you just doing tren. But both are good options anyway.
Yes. You NEED them calories. Esp with that line of work. Dont drink water, drink grape juice. Dont eat rice, eat bread. Dont eat chicken, eat fattest beef or pork. This will definetly fuck the lipids up but thats the price of a bulk for a hardgainer.
Yes, me too, thats why i get diarrhea on a bulk alot because i can easy eat 2000kcal worth of chocolate but the chocolate sometimes doesnt want to co-opperate
Yes, slowly losing abs while gaining weight on a bulk means you probably have good calories. Still need to count em to know if you need to drop em(if getting too fat) or up em(if weigh is not moving).
Thats a bad choice if you cant eat and are a hardgainer. Look up JM Blakelies diet for a bulk. Just eat pizza and pour olive oil on top
Id say - start with taking less breaks. Use compound exercises. For exampleā¦ 5x10 Bench superset with 5x10 Bent Over Rowsā¦ chest/back/bis/tris - done. 2min rest between supersets(do the rows while the 2min rest goes after the bench). Should take no more than 20mins with warmup included. Can add 3x12 of arm supersets. Thats like 28mins total, and basically whole upper-body done.
my IG link is in my profile, you can msg me there 
iāll message you and reply to all these points on there , i have before and after pics on my profile as well you can see the progress , thank you 
I agree here.
Have you ever met someone that is really impressive that hasnāt trained for at least 5 years? I donāt think I have. Sure, the guys who win Mr. Olympia titles looked quite impressive after a year or two, but I havenāt met them. They also have rare genetics. I donāt think many people understand how rare those genetics are. It may be less than 1/100,000 for the top guys.
My point with that is be patient. It seems like you are in a huge rush, but if you stick with it, you could end up doing this for decades.
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My question is what is your long term goal?
I know that we are all different, and in some cases, very different. I, myself, would have not taken AAS except that I wanted to compete and wanted every bit of edge I could get. I absolutely love competition. I competed in my mind with everyone in the gym. I started powerlifting to improve my bodybuilding, but I couldnāt resist competing in powerlifting.
What is your long term goal? I am not suggesting that you too should compete. It is not for everyone. Powerlifting competition is fun. Bodybuilding competitionā¦ not so much.
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not looking to compete, i box and work hard im looking to peak in those 2 , be ready to fight anyone who tries me , not be a scrawny bitch if i go to jail, be able to pickup my girl and fuck her for hours standing up with her in my arms , just be an overall beast of a man tbh
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I think you should just learn more about training and eating and also learn more about steroids , and do what you think is best for you , but yeah , you need to learn more about food and training
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Mostly just look good TBH. I am okay with just being sorta big while being lean. Kinda a running back physique. A physique resembling Frank Zane would be the dream, but wonāt likely happen haha.
I may do another powerlifting meet, IDK. I like bench and deadlift so Iād probably do push pull. Iād like to total 1,000 or over at under 200 lbs. Iāve done that total in the gym, but I was over 200 lbs. If I thought I could do it with a water cut and make it into the 181 class, that would take the state record by a big margin. I think it would put me top 20 in the US, and top 40 world. That is only push pull though. Smaller talent pool than full power.
Edit: not sure if directed at me?
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Something to consider, before you go all out with AAS, taking in the grams per week. You can grow muscles far faster than you can strengthen tendons. If you get really strong, especially quickly, you will be capable of hurting yourself much more than anyone could hurt you.
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I agree. Something Iāve considered. Having two shoulder injuries a few weeks after ending blasts makes one think. Especially when one of the injuries made my bench drop 200 lbs. Not that I could do more but it hurt. No, I had to grind the weight up, and I had to lift my butt to get 200 lbs less than I benched 3 weeks earlier.
That stalled progress more than the gear helped me. Not a worthwhile trade off.
Itās why next blast will be half the gear.
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