Cyber Warfare

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Ok, now what?

This is getting out of hand.

edit

http://news.yahoo.com/north-korea-experiencing-severe-internet-200418060.html

Ok NK let’s see what ya got. lol.
[/quote]

The last link is what I was thinking the other day when someone suggested that the US Government hire the hackers themselves.

Hackers are minor league compared to what the US Government can do in this area.[/quote]

Well…where do you think we get the manpower to run our technological assets? Hackers of course, lol.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
when the hackers threatened to attack cinemas showing The Interview it became a national security threat if the hackers were backed by foreign powers.[/quote]

In my opinion it becomes a national security threat regardless of backing by foreign powers here. It’s a crime until you threaten terrorist actions in a serious manner. Obviously not inclusive of the angry rants and BS all of us see every day on the internet, but when you commit a multi-million dollar crime, and then on top of it threaten seriously to commit attacks on civilian targets…well you are now not a criminal. Now you are a terrorist and that falls with our national security apparatuses.[/quote]

Almost all modern commerce depends on the internet these days. Depending on the level of threat, at some point I would treat an attack on the internet the same way I would treat blowing up a dam or power facility.

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
when the hackers threatened to attack cinemas showing The Interview it became a national security threat if the hackers were backed by foreign powers.[/quote]

In my opinion it becomes a national security threat regardless of backing by foreign powers here. It’s a crime until you threaten terrorist actions in a serious manner. Obviously not inclusive of the angry rants and BS all of us see every day on the internet, but when you commit a multi-million dollar crime, and then on top of it threaten seriously to commit attacks on civilian targets…well you are now not a criminal. Now you are a terrorist and that falls with our national security apparatuses.[/quote]

Almost all modern commerce depends on the internet these days. Depending on the level of threat, at some point I would treat an attack on the internet the same way I would treat blowing up a dam or power facility. [/quote]

I thoroughly agree. On the other hand, if I was taken seriously every time I was pissed of and said “I’ll kill you!” …then I’d probably have been executed about 1,412,590 times by now. I’m not sure I made it clear in my above post, but I definitely view attacks on the internet as serious things, potentially but not necessarily terroristic. And I was trying to avoid some troll bringing up the spy nets on everyday use by specifying ‘serious threats of violence’ made vs. trolling

…I’m definitely not articulating well today.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Ok, now what?

This is getting out of hand.

edit

http://news.yahoo.com/north-korea-experiencing-severe-internet-200418060.html

Ok NK let’s see what ya got. lol.
[/quote]

The last link is what I was thinking the other day when someone suggested that the US Government hire the hackers themselves.

Hackers are minor league compared to what the US Government can do in this area.[/quote]

Well…where do you think we get the manpower to run our technological assets? Hackers of course, lol.[/quote]

I should have worded my thoughts better.

My belief is that the US Government has employees already that are better trained and have better resources available to them to cause as much damage as they wish without going out and hiring criminal hackers.

I admit I am not an expert in cyber technologies. That’s part of the reason I am taking part in this discussion, so I can possibly learn something

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Ok, now what?

This is getting out of hand.

edit

http://news.yahoo.com/north-korea-experiencing-severe-internet-200418060.html

Ok NK let’s see what ya got. lol.
[/quote]

The last link is what I was thinking the other day when someone suggested that the US Government hire the hackers themselves.

Hackers are minor league compared to what the US Government can do in this area.[/quote]

Well…where do you think we get the manpower to run our technological assets? Hackers of course, lol.[/quote]

I should have worded my thoughts better.

My belief is that the US Government has employees already that are better trained and have better resources available to them to cause as much damage as they wish without going out and hiring criminal hackers.
[/quote]

Oh no, I agree with you. I was just having a little fun with you is all. It is also known that the government likes to try to enlist previously private employees with most or all of the skills but none of the resources in their previous jobs…for that matter the FBI has openly thought about dropping their marijuana restriction so that they can try to attract college kids in comp. sci. or comp. engineering because of a talent shortage. I can’t remember where the article I read was, but it was funny. I suppose you could call potheads criminal…?? lol.

What this country should seriously do is create a national internet. This would be run the way the internet actually started. On this system would be all the government departments, all the power grids, spy satellites, the Pentagon, military information, CIA, FBI, etc. The stuff we could internalize and shut off from other governments. There would be no way they could hack into it because it would basically be closed to them. Any computer people out there think this idea is a good one or is it crap? What do you think?

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
What this country should seriously do is create a national internet. This would be run the way the internet actually started. On this system would be all the government departments, all the power grids, spy satellites, the Pentagon, military information, CIA, FBI, etc. The stuff we could internalize and shut off from other governments. There would be no way they could hack into it because it would basically be closed to them. Any computer people out there think this idea is a good one or is it crap? What do you think?[/quote]

Great idea. We can put all the servers in hardened satellites in geosynchronous orbit with relays down to earth, so that no human will have access to them. It will be a perfect, secure, closed system running EVERYTHING.

What would be a good name for it…? I know! SKYNET!

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
What this country should seriously do is create a national internet. This would be run the way the internet actually started. On this system would be all the government departments, all the power grids, spy satellites, the Pentagon, military information, CIA, FBI, etc. The stuff we could internalize and shut off from other governments. There would be no way they could hack into it because it would basically be closed to them. Any computer people out there think this idea is a good one or is it crap? What do you think?[/quote]

Great idea. We can put all the servers in hardened satellites in geosynchronous orbit with relays down to earth, so that no human will have access to them. It will be a perfect, secure, closed system running EVERYTHING.

What would be a good name for it…? I know! SKYNET![/quote]

There’re a number of dystopian science fiction stories about computers/AI controlling natural resources and means of production and so on. Remember Logan’s Run by William F. Nolan and George Clayton Johnson? To control global population people are given an implant that turns yellow when the person is aged 0-6, blue when they’re 7-13, red when they’re 14-20 and the day they turn 21 it turns black the person must report to a clinic to be euthanased. If they refuse to report for “compulsory” euthanasia they become illegal “runners” and are hunted down by “Deep Sleep Operatives” aka “Sandmen”. And then there’s the idea of an AI system deciding for whatever reason(possibly with good intentions) decide to exterminate the human race as in The Terminator films.

Once we delegate the decision to go to war and the waging of wars to machines and artificial intelligence systems we’ve pretty much sealed our own fate. That is if we’re not all annihilated by an asteroid, a plague, a nuclear holocaust, some pandemic, gamma ray burst, zombie apocalypse, mass movement or cult that turns to genocide that Aum Supreme Truth or some Islamic fundamentalist with Soviet nuclear devices on a fleet of cargo ships or some group of Eco-fascist scientists in tweed jackets who decide to exterminate the human race to save the planet from us as in Tom Clancy’s novel Rainbow Six.

The point is existential threats to the human race are everywhere and there’s no where you can hide from modernity and its consequences. We’re becoming numbers and treated like herd animals in public places by recorded messages and flashing lights telling us where not to stand and not to smoke and which way the masses should shuffle to get to the Apple store or the Walmart and which way to drive home; which lane, which route, where we can park and where we can’t and how fast we can go etc etc. And to access essential services or even exist without getting locked up we need to carry identification and know all our numbers and PINS and passwords just to access our own funds.

Pretty soon, we’ll get barcodes visible under black light tattooed somewhere on our bodies and video cameras on every street in every city and urban area will scan and follow every individual; any designated as terrorists and unlawful enemy combatants will be terminated by any number of means; electrocution would be easy and effective. A computer system monitoring the individual with cameras could electrify any suitable object he may come into contact with such as a urinal or a metal street pole or door handle. Computers and software will get all the “evidence” on individuals and thereby make them “suspects” and eventually “targets”. Western cities will see drone strikes on a daily basis as enemies of the state are purged or maybe even “sacrificed” as the Aztecs did to their enemies in the Flower War. Aum Supreme Truth was a very powerful organisation in the early 90’s and controlled a significant industrial capacity. It’s not inconceivable that Islam or some quasi-mystical political movement or cult will become a threat to mankind.

I worry less about robots and more about our banking system and how to protect my wealth.

How To Be Invisible by JJ Luna is worth reading.

Before EVERYTHING gets computerized and automated, one can still maintain a level of privacy and anonymity.

A dual citizenship is worth exploring as well. When things get too bad, having the plan in place to get the fuck out will be priceless.

Also, an advantage of a dual citizenship is international banking. Many banks wont accept American citizens as clients because of recent demands by the Obama administration to disclose private information. Google FATCA. https://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog/2014/3/25/us-citizen-no-foreign-bank-account-for-you.html

Banks are NOT a safe place to keep your money, assuming you have any substantial assets. There is legislation being discussed right now to CONFISCATE the funds held by US citizens in a move similar to what happened in Cypress. If you think it can’t happen here, think again.

Owning property in another country is a good idea as well - it’s an asset that the US government cannot seize. Gold, silver, diamonds, art, etc… can be purchased relatively easily and anonymously (and held indefinitely and transported easily).

I’m not paranoid, I see the world for what it is. It’s not science fiction - they don’t NEED robots to enslave us. They just need to hold our money hostage, and Facebook to distract us.

The water is just about boiling, but the frog hasn’t noticed yet.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I worry less about robots and more about our banking system and how to protect my wealth.

I’m not paranoid, I see the world for what it is. It’s not science fiction - they don’t NEED robots to enslave us. They just need to hold our money hostage, and Facebook to distract us.

The water is just about boiling, but the frog hasn’t noticed yet.[/quote]

X2

The threat of our financial system collapsing should be a much bigger concern to people than some shit hole nation on the other side of the world.

I’m pretty sure we’re already slaves to money, it’s just matter of time before the gov’t makes that money worthless and the slaves see their life for what it really is.

anyways, here some new app for your phone and a new reality show to keep everyone distracted.

Seems it might have been disgruntled former Sony employees…

[quote]2busy wrote:
Seems it might have been disgruntled former Sony employees…

Yeah, I saw that. Could you imagine if NK mysteriously lost all Internet access for 8 hours and it wasn’t even them?

Hilarious.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I’m not paranoid, I see the world for what it is. It’s not science fiction - they don’t NEED robots to enslave us. They just need to hold our money hostage, and Facebook to distract us.

The water is just about boiling, but the frog hasn’t noticed yet.[/quote]

AC - combined with the survivalist thread i must say im pretty shocked at how much of a nut job you appear to be lol.

for someone who comes across as mostly rational and logical in their posts you appear to have built up an extreme level of paranoia/fear of the world/ “The Man”/ “Big Govt.” etc.

granted forum posts are often exaggerated in order to illustrate a point and i agree to an extent about your views on the world at large.

however, i would be GENUINELY very interested in your reasoning behind having such an extreme world view. this isnt a request for you to defend yourself but as a poster i greatly respect id be keen to see where your level of fear/paranoia (not trying to antagonise by choosing those descriptions) arises from.

or maybe it is easier for you to explain where you see America/the West/the world in 5/10/25 years.

again the main reason im asking is your mindset of what seems to be total fear must have some solid grounding for a smart guy like you.

[quote]TheCB wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I’m not paranoid, I see the world for what it is. It’s not science fiction - they don’t NEED robots to enslave us. They just need to hold our money hostage, and Facebook to distract us.

The water is just about boiling, but the frog hasn’t noticed yet.[/quote]

AC - combined with the survivalist thread i must say im pretty shocked at how much of a nut job you appear to be lol.

for someone who comes across as mostly rational and logical in their posts you appear to have built up an extreme level of paranoia/fear of the world/ “The Man”/ “Big Govt.” etc.

granted forum posts are often exaggerated in order to illustrate a point and i agree to an extent about your views on the world at large.

however, i would be GENUINELY very interested in your reasoning behind having such an extreme world view. this isnt a request for you to defend yourself but as a poster i greatly respect id be keen to see where your level of fear/paranoia (not trying to antagonise by choosing those descriptions) arises from.

or maybe it is easier for you to explain where you see America/the West/the world in 5/10/25 years.

again the main reason im asking is your mindset of what seems to be total fear must have some solid grounding for a smart guy like you. [/quote]

My son just got back in town tonight, so I’ll give this question the attention it deserves tomorrow. I didn’t take it the wrong way. But I want to be thorough with my answer.

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Yeah, I saw that. Could you imagine if NK mysteriously lost all Internet access for 8 hours and it wasn’t even them?

Hilarious.
[/quote]

Chances are, the internet outage in N. Korea was Anonymous’s deed.

In any case, if it is genuinely the case that the event was due to disgruntled Sony employees, then they’re monsters for abusing the name of 9-11. I hope they all get arrested and go to prison for a long time on terrorism charges.

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Yeah, I saw that. Could you imagine if NK mysteriously lost all Internet access for 8 hours and it wasn’t even them?

Hilarious.
[/quote]

Chances are, the internet outage in N. Korea was Anonymous’s deed.

In any case, if it is genuinely the case that the event was due to disgruntled Sony employees, then they’re monsters for abusing the name of 9-11. I hope they all get arrested and go to prison for a long time on terrorism charges.
[/quote]

How about Obama jumping the gun before getting all the facts ? Not the first time he has done it, or the last.

[quote]TheCB wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I’m not paranoid, I see the world for what it is. It’s not science fiction - they don’t NEED robots to enslave us. They just need to hold our money hostage, and Facebook to distract us.

The water is just about boiling, but the frog hasn’t noticed yet.[/quote]

AC - combined with the survivalist thread i must say im pretty shocked at how much of a nut job you appear to be lol.

for someone who comes across as mostly rational and logical in their posts you appear to have built up an extreme level of paranoia/fear of the world/ “The Man”/ “Big Govt.” etc.

granted forum posts are often exaggerated in order to illustrate a point and i agree to an extent about your views on the world at large.

however, i would be GENUINELY very interested in your reasoning behind having such an extreme world view. this isnt a request for you to defend yourself but as a poster i greatly respect id be keen to see where your level of fear/paranoia (not trying to antagonise by choosing those descriptions) arises from.

or maybe it is easier for you to explain where you see America/the West/the world in 5/10/25 years.

again the main reason im asking is your mindset of what seems to be total fear must have some solid grounding for a smart guy like you. [/quote]

Why don’t I trust THE STATE?

Well for starters, I’ve had my life impacted by the State from an early age. Growing up in Baltimore, I was harassed by police officers as soon as I became a teenager. Now, I was on my own since I was 16 and during that time, I made choices that were not legal. I did what I felt I had to do to survive and I ended up getting drawn into something that I couldn’t get out of. Long story short, I was arrested for armed robbery.

At the time of my arrest, I was beaten severely. I did NOT resist arrest. I was beaten several other times before my trial by the guards at the Annapolis detention center. I was also involved with several altercations with other inmates that resulted in me being stabbed as the guards watched.

During my trial, I was charged with over 70 counts (that I had nothing to do with) from robbery to assault. Not just the crime I was arrested for. The prosecutor was determined not to go to trial and used every dirty trick in the book to suppress the evidence that I was beaten by the police and the guards. In fact they confined me to solitary between the time of my conviction and my sentencing hearing. Guess who got some nice visits from the guards while in solitary? A plea was eventually beaten out of me, both literally and figuratively. And I’m not the only one, I met plenty of other inmates with a similar experience.

As I navigated my way through the criminal “justice” system, I personally experienced and witnessed COUNTLESS civil rights violations from beatings to covered up murders to prostitution and guards bringing in narcotics. While a ward of THE STATE, I was stabbed five time, hit with a lock in a sock that fractured my skull, cut half a dozen time and got into well over 200 violent confrontations. Many of these events took place within sight of or with the full awareness of the correctional officers. One of my injuries involved the tendons in my right hand being severed. I was denied proper medical attention and as a result, have a permanent disability in that hand, despite having three surgeries after I got out. When I finally got out, I was beaten by Prince Georges county police on four separate occasions. Every attempt I made to find out more information on the officers, was met with, “well you’re just a felon”. Fine, I’m just a felon. I guess all I have to do is go to work everyday and work hard, right? Wrong. When I got off parole, I moved to Virginia in hopes of getting away from the craziness in Maryland.

My experience with the police in Virginia has not exactly been pleasant either. During my transition, I had an issue with transferring my title and registration, I had paid for everything, but was waiting for the right sticker to come in the mail. Of course I was pulled over (not for a traffic violation, for the sticker). When I tried to explain the situation, the officers didn’t give a fuck. They illegally searched my vehicle, inventoried everything and towed and IMPOUNDED my vehicle and left me on the side of the fucking road. THE STATE effectively violated my civil rights and STOLE my property legally over a fucking STICKER that I had paid for and even showed the receipt that I had paid for. Even though I had paid, it cost me over a thousand dollars to get my car back. I never received my personal property from the vehicle.

After reaching the top of the electrical field in a short amount of time, I found an opportunity to get into the mortgage business. At that time, there was no barrier to entry, anyone could sell mortgages. So I did. I spent years building up a successful mortgage business. I invested in several other businesses and built myself up pretty well. Even after the crash, I adjusted and continued to do well. When Dodd-Frank was passed, one of the provisions was licensing for all loan officers (because the EVIL loan officers brought down the economy, right? It had NOTHING to do with the banks…) Despite my excellent record and reputation, I was denied a license because I was a felon.

So in one fell swoop, THE STATE took my livelihood. Top producer to “go find another career” in one day. Fortunately, I had my former electrical career to fall back on.

THAT’S WHY I DON’T TRUST THE STATE.

But my experience got me thinking, well, if they can do THAT because I’m a felon, what else can they take from me? So I started reading and becoming involved in political discussions. I was already a student of history, but I renewed my focus on some of the similarities between Empires and what has historically cause them to fail and fall.

I have arrived at the conclusion that the United States of America is an empire in decline. I could cite examples and draw parallels with bread and circus of the Roman empire is the same as welfare and social media in today’s environment and I could go on and on about how our freedoms are being eroded and so on and so forth, but that doesn’t really matter to me - I’m a felon, I basically HAVE no rights or freedoms anymore. You can SAY that I do (and according the Constitution, I “should”), but my direct experience tells me otherwise. The ones with the GUNS get the final say, and I’m not allowed to have a gun (despite the second amendment, which clearly grants me that right, as a citizen. Last time I checked, I’m still a citizen…).

So if THE STATE can beat me, arrest me, take my livelihood, violate my rights and my due process and legally steal my property under NORMAL circumstances, what could they do to me under MARTIAL LAW? Let’s take a look:

In 2012, our dear leader signed another executive order, the National Defense Resources Preparedness Executive Order 13603. It was to “update” an existing executive order from the '50’s from the Truman administration granting the executive branch control over private businesses, resources, raw materials etc… for “national defense purposes”. The Truman law ALSO gave the executive branch power to impose wage and price controls, settle labor disputes, control consumer and real estate credit, and establish “contractual priorities”. It was generally understood that this would be done in an extreme need and most likely accompanied by Martial Law (which I’ll touch on later). But our dear leader changed a few things: Obama added, under section 203(b) the phrase, “under both emergency and non-emergency conditions” and in section 102, “in peacetime and in times of war”.

Yes, ladies and gents, he has a pen, and he’s not afraid to use it.

Now I can go on and on about that, but WHY am I so worried about all that stuff? I mean that’s for MARTIAL LAW, you silly chicken, right?

Well the next obvious question is, “what could trigger martial law?”.

Well, we saw what that would look like with Katrina. So it’s safe to assume that any natural disaster would trigger it. Also probably any kind of pandemic. Widespread civil unrest? Another terrorist attack?

How about economic collapse… Now, what does that look like? I mean we ARE 18 TRILLION dollars in debt. Let me say that again:

18 TRILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT

Let’s talk about the elephant in the room.

But first, let’s put that number in perspective. If you were to count to a million, it would take a week. If you were to count to 18 trillion, it would take 31 thousand YEARS… That’s a big fucking number. We pay INTEREST on this debt. Last year, the US paid 430 BILLION on INTEREST PAYMENTS. That’s at an interest rate of about 2.5% which is historically low (and kept low because of the QE that has been artificially keeping rates down).

Is anyone foolish enough to believe that those interest rates will STAY that low? I mean, how much artificial market manipulation will our shareholders stand? What happens when the rate goes up to FIVE percent, which is still historically low? That would put our our interest payment at nearly ONE TRILLION PER YEAR. That’s TWO THIRDS of our tax revenue…

Is this starting to get anyone’s attention?

But I haven’t even TOUCHED the liabilities yet!

7.8 TRILLION in gov’t pension, accounts payable, environmental
23.8 TRILLION for Social Security for participants as of 2013
27.3 TRILLION for current Medicare participants

Combined with the federal debt and subtracting federally held assets, that comes to:

71 TRILLION DOLLARS in debts, liabilities and UN-financed obligations that WE, the taxpayers of the United States of America, are on the hook for.

Now does anyone REALLY think that’s going to happen? It is PURE FANTASY. It’s a Ponzi scheme. There’s no way to pay for it without massively inflating our currency.

Speaking of currency, given our obligations and being over leveraged, how long do you think we will hold on to our status as the world’s reserve currency? Does the average American even know what that is or what it means?

For the uninformed: a Reserve Currency is a currency held in significant quantities by governments and other entities as part of their foreign exchange reserves. The Reserve Currency (currently the US dollar) is used in international transactions as the “hard” currency. What that means for the US is that we have a significant advantage because we can purchase imports and borrow across borders more cheaply because we don’t have to first convert our currency. It’s a big deal. And we are poised to lose it.

See this article: http://www.moneynews.com/Ed-Moy/dollar-reserve-currency-economic/2014/07/23/id/584482/

If that happens, we are almost CERTAIN to have higher interest rates on our debt, which equals reduction in services, higher taxes and inflation.

Our unsound fiscal policy and fiat currency ultimately led to the financial crash several years ago that was “averted” (and by “averted”, I mean “delayed and magnified”) by literally printing trillions of dollars. I mean, it’s just like that song, “money for nothin and your chicks for free”. Does ANYONE of sound mind believe that to be stable or sustainable? Instead of allowing banks to FAIL and go through some short term pain, we socialized the banks, incurred TRILLIONS of dollars of debt and now the market is BOOMING again, and the price of oil is DOWN, baby! YEEE HAAA, right? LMAO

What do you think that’s doing to the TRILLIONS of dollars of derivatives and leverage at play in the financial markets? Combine that with some recent regulatory changes and the confidence in the market will seriously be compromised. What will the impact be on the credit default swaps? This plummeting free fall of oil is the proverbial canary in the coal mine.

What if this “hiccup” causes a destabilization that affects the system again? Does ANYONE see how fragile it is? If we experience ANOTHER free fall, do you not doubt that Obama will FREEZE the market, causing a run circa 1933?

We are SO over leveraged, SO artificially inflated and have SO many outstanding liabilities that it a near certainty that shit will come crashing down. How can it NOT? It’s only a matter of time.

And how will TODAY’S generation handle it? Do they even have a SHRED of the testicular fortitude that our great grandparents who grew potatoes in the back yard to survive the Great Depression had? FUCK NO… They’ll want the government to fix it. But what will they do when the government CAN’T? Which brings us back to civil unrest and martial law.

Now pretend for a minute that the US got kicked in the economic nuts and is staggering under the weight of it’s spoiled and petulant population… What is the likelihood that the other sharks in the tank will start to take bites at us? It’ll be a god damned feeding frenzy that would most likely culminate in an attack on our country while we are down and the destruction of our way of life as we know it.

Does anyone trust our government to deal with this in a responsible way?

The way we are increasing spending, increasing government liability and systematically undermining the fiscal foundation of our currency we are only INCREASING the speed at which we arrive at the inevitable.

Try looking at what happens at countries who have experienced economic collapse. It’s not pretty.

Sorry to paint a dismal picture, but that’s how I see the world. Do I really sound like a nut job?

I certainly “HOPE” that my understanding of economics (and every other leading economist) is wrong. I certainly “HOPE” that politicians somehow defy history and pull their collective heads out of their ass. I certainly “HOPE” human nature hasn’t corrupted the experiment that was the United States of America so badly that it cant turn itself around. But I’m not optimistic, and as a responsible adult I have options and an exit plan.

well said AC.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Sorry to paint a dismal picture, but that’s how I see the world. Do I really sound like a nut job?
[/quote]

thanks for such a well thought out response.

while much of what you say is possible in theory, i believe that in reality so many cataclysmic events would need to occur for there to be this dystopian future in store for us all that it’s not worth worrying about to this degree.

just as a quick example, where are the signs of a genuinely significant terrorist event ever happening in the West ie killing multiple millions in one fell swoop? or of a pandemic of a disease for example actually occurring? as for the american/global economy collapsing in ways which humanity has never experienced, it is possible but global economics is so complex and in flux that who can predict what will happen next week. the global oil price has fallen due to the whims of the saudi government posturing. what economist predicted this 6 months ago? as far as im aware literally zero not even one lol!

i do find your posts very entertaining and thought provoking.