Cuts Fitness

Off Topic
21

[quote]boomerlu wrote:

Agreed, but then again I also agree with Jsbrook in that I do see it as a fitness positive. Also the flip side of the “cowardice” problem is that at least we see that a problem exists clearly.[/quote]

It would only be positive if people are actually making significant progress. Basically, they are claiming up front that should you ever actually make enough progress for someone to ever consider you a “muscle head” you will be shunned from the place. That means the GOAL is to make little to no progress. How is that a good thing?

22

[quote]Professor X wrote:
boomerlu wrote:

Agreed, but then again I also agree with Jsbrook in that I do see it as a fitness positive. Also the flip side of the “cowardice” problem is that at least we see that a problem exists clearly.

It would only be positive if people are actually making significant progress. Basically, they are claiming up front that should you ever actually make enough progress for someone to ever consider you a “muscle head” you will be shunned from the place. That means the GOAL is to make little to no progress. How is that a good thing?[/quote]

Well again their idea of “progress” is different from ours. They want straight up to lose fat, “get cut”, and be healthy.
You can certainly make decent progress in that direction without becoming a “muscle head”.
Is it optimal? Fuck no, but that’s not what we are dealing with here in the first place.

The positive is that these otherwise completely sedentary folks are actually taking somewhat of an interest in their own health and doing something about it. One can hope that some people who go to this place will gain enough confidence to realize what bullshit it is and move on to being more hardcore, but the truth is it IS easy for the population demographic that the gym is targeted to to be intimidated.

23

[quote]Professor X wrote:
boomerlu wrote:

Agreed, but then again I also agree with Jsbrook in that I do see it as a fitness positive. Also the flip side of the “cowardice” problem is that at least we see that a problem exists clearly.

It would only be positive if people are actually making significant progress. Basically, they are claiming up front that should you ever actually make enough progress for someone to ever consider you a “muscle head” you will be shunned from the place. That means the GOAL is to make little to no progress. How is that a good thing?[/quote]

The Prof (as usual) is right on with this - and that’s why I posted that link. Whatever takes the least amount of time, whatever is the most convenient, whatever you can do with no effort…this whole things smacks of fucking laziness…this isn’t fitness and health, it’s just another recycled ‘body by Jerk’ or ‘2 minute abs’.

There seems to be no end to people looking for the easy way out, and no lack of ‘personal trainers’ willing to accommodate that need…this falls in line with the new trend of “life coach”…lol. Which is IMO the biggest crock of shit since snake-oil and P.T. Barnum…if you need a “life coach” you’ve got deeper issues than your diet…

24

[quote]Professor X wrote:
boomerlu wrote:

Agreed, but then again I also agree with Jsbrook in that I do see it as a fitness positive. Also the flip side of the “cowardice” problem is that at least we see that a problem exists clearly.

It would only be positive if people are actually making significant progress. Basically, they are claiming up front that should you ever actually make enough progress for someone to ever consider you a “muscle head” you will be shunned from the place. That means the GOAL is to make little to no progress. How is that a good thing?[/quote]

Well, the dude they talked about in the article dropped bodyfat, went from a 38 inch waist to a 34 inch waist, probably added a little muscle from his untrained state. Hardly impressive or earth-shattering. But he’ll probably live longer and have a better quality of life throughout those years. I’d say that’s progress for him and others like him. Not significant progress and the mindset itself is antithetical to us at T-Nation. But still progress and still a positive.

25

[quote]boomerlu wrote:
Professor X wrote:
One can hope that some people who go to this place will gain enough confidence to realize what bullshit it is and move on to being more hardcore, but the truth is it IS easy for the population demographic that the gym is targeted to to be intimidated.[/quote]

Werd. And Fark Curves for taking a good amount of the hot MILF population from the regular gyms.

26

[quote]boomerlu wrote:
And Blitz sounds like it could be my kind of place, although I don’t know since I have never been inside one.
…

I was under the impression that the 20 minute circuit was available, but they have “the usual”. I’ll reserve judgement for until I actually see the place. Of course if it turns out…then you are obviously right.

[/quote]

I’ve seen it, don’t bother. The only thing worthwhile you could do there would be to deadlift all the VW Beetles in the parking lot. Beetles everywhere, soft, shiny ribbons around the “boxing ring”, not a free weight in sight, that place was gayer than two men having sex.

The guy at the counter told me straight up, “If you’re looking for more muscle, this isn’t the place for you.”

27

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Professor X wrote:
boomerlu wrote:

Agreed, but then again I also agree with Jsbrook in that I do see it as a fitness positive. Also the flip side of the “cowardice” problem is that at least we see that a problem exists clearly.

It would only be positive if people are actually making significant progress. Basically, they are claiming up front that should you ever actually make enough progress for someone to ever consider you a “muscle head” you will be shunned from the place. That means the GOAL is to make little to no progress. How is that a good thing?

Well, the dude they talked about in the article dropped bodyfat, went from a 38 inch waist to a 34 inch waist, probably added a little muscle from his untrained state. Hardly impressive or earth-shattering. But he’ll probably live longer and have a better quality of life throughout those years. I’d say that’s progress for him and others like him. Not significant progress and the mindset itself is antithetical to us at T-Nation. But still progress and still a positive.[/quote]

Honestly, ask yourself who is more likely to quit training all together, the guy who realizes that it takes a complete life style change and understands it will be hard work and take more focus than just 20 min really quick…or the guy who just wants to get a little “cut”, loses 4 inches off his waist and feels he has to rush home before he gets yelled at?

My guess is, if we follow up this guy’s story in two or three years, he will be right back at his previous waist measurement or much larger since this was never much of a priority to begin with and he never really gained all that much muscle to drastically change his metabolism (lest he become a dreaded muscle head).

If real gyms regularly see the New Year’s Resolution crowd come and go, never to return, why would someone stick to anything that brags about needing even LESS focus?

It looks like shit to me.

28

I just finished reading the article and it’s sad. People are getting rich off of the weak…again…like in the 80s and 90s infomercial era. Oh wait, the first snail male-gym, Cuts, was started by an infomerical guru. Enough said.

I wonder if Cuts has their circuit listed on the internet somewhere. It’s probably something effective like pullups, dips, airsquats, situps, extensions, alternating lunges, pushups, and jumping squats just to name a few exercises.

The playground next to my house is looking better and better.

29

[quote]Professor X wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Professor X wrote:
boomerlu wrote:

Agreed, but then again I also agree with Jsbrook in that I do see it as a fitness positive. Also the flip side of the “cowardice” problem is that at least we see that a problem exists clearly.

It would only be positive if people are actually making significant progress. Basically, they are claiming up front that should you ever actually make enough progress for someone to ever consider you a “muscle head” you will be shunned from the place. That means the GOAL is to make little to no progress. How is that a good thing?

Well, the dude they talked about in the article dropped bodyfat, went from a 38 inch waist to a 34 inch waist, probably added a little muscle from his untrained state. Hardly impressive or earth-shattering. But he’ll probably live longer and have a better quality of life throughout those years. I’d say that’s progress for him and others like him. Not significant progress and the mindset itself is antithetical to us at T-Nation. But still progress and still a positive.

Honestly, ask yourself who is more likely to quit training all together, the guy who realizes that it takes a complete life style change and understands it will be hard work and take more focus than just 20 min really quick…or the guy who just wants to get a little “cut”, loses 4 inches off his waist and feels he has to rush home before he gets yelled at?

My guess is, if we follow up this guy’s story in two or three years, he will be right back at his previous waist measurement or much larger since this was never much of a priority to begin with and he never really gained all that much muscle to drastically change his metabolism (lest he become a dreaded muscle head).

If real gyms regularly see the New Year’s Resolution crowd come and go, never to return, why would someone stick to anything that brags about needing even LESS focus?

It looks like shit to me.[/quote]

I disagree with you, actually. I think long-lasting success is more likely for people who make modest but real and maintainable changes unless they are the rare person that’s ready and wanting to embrace a T-Nation-esque lifestyle.

I’ve seen many people try to completely overhaul their lifestyle. Go into an intense lifting program, drop all processed food, eat 100% clean. They are the ones who usually keep it up for a few weeks and then go back to their old ways. Because they were not ready to embrace it as a lifestyle nor view it as one.

Then I’ve seen many others make more modest changes- drop some processed food, cut portion sizes, eat more veggies, walk more, ro more active leisure activites, get into the gym a little bit. They lose fat, improve blood pressure and cholesterol, add a little muscles, experience joint relief, greater energy, etc…

Because of such positive results and the fact that they don’t feel unbelieveably deprived or like training and eating has taken over their life, they can maintain that. Some go beyond and take training or diet more seriously. But they all end up healthier than before. This has been true for all of my parents middle-aged friends that decided to make changes.

The ones who succeeded in the longterm made real improvements in the way they approached life but not [at least not initially] to such a degree that they couldn’t imagine doing it for more than a short time.

30

[quote]MODOK wrote:
The existence of this gym brings something very interesting to light about our male society which is very disturbing. This gym was created because men feel intimidated by other MEN. This is something totally new. [/quote]

I agree with pretty much everything else you had to say, Modok, but not this part – that this trend is something new.

There have always been, and always will be, those individuals in society who fear to lift their heads high and take pride in who they are. We see them throughout history. There are even newspaper cartoons from the early days of physique culture, making fun of men who were intimidated by the presence of early strongmen. It’s been awhile since I saw the illustration, but I think it came from Sandow’s days.

31

[quote]Bullmoose wrote:
that place was gayer than two men having sex.

[/quote]

ahahahha, I haven’t heard that one before. I’m definitely using it.

32

[quote]jsbrook wrote:

I disagree with you,
[/quote]

You can disagree all you want. My guess is, the very people filling up these ridiculous “gyms” will be the first to give it up because there was no real original drive to actually achieve significant progress. What happens if someone with great genetics really takes to training and begins looking like a, dare I say, “musclehead” and begins intimidating the fatter lazier clients? Is he kicked out?

It’s bullshit. Making excuses for it won’t make it smell like roses.

33

[quote]Professor X wrote:
jsbrook wrote:

I disagree with you,

You can disagree all you want. My guess is, the very people filling up these ridiculous “gyms” will be the first to give it up because there was no real original drive to actually achieve significant progress. What happens if someone with great genetics really takes to training and begins looking like a, dare I say, “musclehead” and begins intimidating the fatter lazier clients? Is he kicked out?

It’s bullshit. Making excuses for it won’t make it smell like roses.[/quote]

Whatever dude. I don’t want to get in a big debate about it, but I think you’re wrong. People get more hardcore, they move to a better gym. People make changes to improve their health all the time and maintain them for life yet their approach looks nothing like those of us at T-Nation. I don’t know what kind of doctor you are, but I wonder if a middle-aged formely sedentary patient told you that they had dropped fat and felt much better since they started a circuit training program, started jogging and gave up processed food, you would tell them to fuck it and give up if they weren’t prepared to do heavy squats and deadlifts, commence a supplement regimen, and avoid carbs and fat in the same meal.

34

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jsbrook wrote:

I disagree with you,

You can disagree all you want. My guess is, the very people filling up these ridiculous “gyms” will be the first to give it up because there was no real original drive to actually achieve significant progress. What happens if someone with great genetics really takes to training and begins looking like a, dare I say, “musclehead” and begins intimidating the fatter lazier clients? Is he kicked out?

It’s bullshit. Making excuses for it won’t make it smell like roses.

Whatever dude. I don’t want to get in a big debate about it, but I think you’re wrong. People get more hardcore, they move to a better gym. People make changes to improve their health all the time and maintain them for life yet their approach looks nothing like those of us at T-Nation. I don’t know what kind of doctor you are, but I wonder if a middle-aged formely sedentary patient told you that they had dropped fat and felt much better since they started a circuit training program, started jogging and gave up processed food, you would tell them to fuck it and give up if they weren’t prepared to do heavy squats and deadlifts, commence a supplement regimen, and avoid carbs and fat in the same meal. [/quote]

Why would I tell someone to give it up? I would get anyone I was training to understand what is involved, not fool them into thinking this is some random pit stop on the way home after work that requires no focus or a change in lifestyle. The entire concept is based on regular gyms being too “hardcore”. The majority of the people filling up regular gyms lately are soccer moms and out of shape weekend warriors…so exactly how warped is someone’s sense of themself or what is involved in getting in shape that they think that is over board?

35

[quote]Professor X wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jsbrook wrote:

I disagree with you,

You can disagree all you want. My guess is, the very people filling up these ridiculous “gyms” will be the first to give it up because there was no real original drive to actually achieve significant progress. What happens if someone with great genetics really takes to training and begins looking like a, dare I say, “musclehead” and begins intimidating the fatter lazier clients? Is he kicked out?

It’s bullshit. Making excuses for it won’t make it smell like roses.

Whatever dude. I don’t want to get in a big debate about it, but I think you’re wrong. People get more hardcore, they move to a better gym. People make changes to improve their health all the time and maintain them for life yet their approach looks nothing like those of us at T-Nation. I don’t know what kind of doctor you are, but I wonder if a middle-aged formely sedentary patient told you that they had dropped fat and felt much better since they started a circuit training program, started jogging and gave up processed food, you would tell them to fuck it and give up if they weren’t prepared to do heavy squats and deadlifts, commence a supplement regimen, and avoid carbs and fat in the same meal.

Why would I tell someone to give it up? I would get anyone I was training to understand what is involved, not fool them into thinking this is some random pit stop on the way home after work that requires no focus or a change in lifestyle. The entire concept is based on regular gyms being too “hardcore”. The majority of the people filling up regular gyms lately are soccer moms and out of shape weekend warriors…so exactly how warped is someone’s sense of themself or what is involved in getting in shape that they think that is over board?[/quote]

I agree on that front. I’m not sure exactly where all these hardcore, intimidating gym patrons are. Because I rarely see them. But if that’s what the perception is among some people for whatever reason and it’s keeping them from the gym, I think this little marketing job that actually will get some of the in the gym is still a good start. Can’t hurt at the very least.

People that were only gonna give it a go for a few weeks would’ve done so anyhow or never gone to the gym at all. At least some people who otherwise never would’ve got their assess in gear are more likely to with this deal.

36

I think more people will remain stagnant and give up rather than progress to actually physically exerting themselves. We could be wrong, but at the rate our society is being emasculated and pussified, I don’t think it’s likely. Especially since anybody who actually is jacked and spends more than 20 minutes twice a week working out is"an obssessed steroid user who lives at the gym."

37

[quote]MODOK wrote:
Ah, I didn’t mean that the “men being intimidated by ther men” was new, but rather the fact that these men are actually isolating themselves now from the more intimidating men. I never thought I’d hear " I can’t go to that gym, because there’s too many big scary guys there" being bantered about in everyday talk.[/quote]

I think the chief difference is that they’re just being honest about it now. People have always come up with countless excuses for not hitting the gym. Women have been honest about the intimidation factor. Now we just see the truth of why Bob in accounting really won’t work out – he’s frightened of the big scary men that sweat and lift things.

There’s a t-shirt in there, somewhere.

(Edit: That’s meant to be agreement on the issue. I shouldn’t post before my first cup of coffee) :slight_smile:

38

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
I agree on that front. I’m not sure exactly where all these hardcore, intimidating gym patrons are. Because I rarely see them.
[/quote]

At my main gym I have maybe 2% “muscle heads” if that. I dont see it either. I dont see where the intimidation is when this is the case at almost every gym I’ve been to. I think these men are intimitated by fit women rather than men. “I dont want to look like a slob in front of these women. I’ll join Cuts.”

39

[quote]PGA200X wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
I agree on that front. I’m not sure exactly where all these hardcore, intimidating gym patrons are. Because I rarely see them.

At my main gym I have maybe 2% “muscle heads” if that. I dont see it either. I dont see where the intimidation is when this is the case at almost every gym I’ve been to. I think these men are intimitated by fit women rather than men. “I dont want to look like a slob in front of these women. I’ll join Cuts.”[/quote]

I think the first problem here is that we are assuming that we can define “intimidated” for these guys. What intimidates me and what intimidates others maybe two different things. The guys at work find me intimidating(imagine that) mostly because they don’t think females could/should do the same job as them.

I can see both sides and find truths in them both. In my opinion, we should be somewhat happy about this. It will keep them out of the squat rack when we want it.

Malinda

40

I think the X and Brooks both make some very good points in their arguments.

Up until 5 years ago, I was a fat ,lazy couch potato who thought the only exercise I needed was about an hour a week playing basketball with the fatter, slower and more out of shape guys.
I got into lifting by accident.

My apartment lease came with a free gym membership. Well, after about 6 weeks of doing everything wrong, one of the “muscleheads” actually came over and gave me some pointers. This changed my whole outlook and eventually led me to this site and the wealth of info.

Most of the changes came gradually, as I wanted to achieve better and better results. Now, it’s a complete lifestyle with the home gym and meal planning, and I owe alot of where I am now to one “musclehead” who took the time to share some very good information.

Basically, I agree with Professor X in that you have to have some hardcore lifters in the gym who are, maybe, willing to share. But, I also agree with JSBrookss that at least some exercise is better than no exercise.

While alot of these men will probably get bored and/or give up before they ever really get anywhere, if at least 10% see the big picture and move on to bigger and better things than that’s an accomplishment.