[quote]lewhitehurst wrote:
As someone who was always accused of being on something because I was always bigger or stronger than expected, I feel for the guy. He very well may have taken steroids and if he did, I wouldn’t blame him. If that is your livelihood you do what you have to do. But I will say, it is funny how so many people, especially on this board have rushed to judgment to say he broke the rules or did something wrong. Most people only want to use “Innocent until proven guilty” as long as it applies to them. More info continues to pop up and I am more inclined to believe that the NFL has decided to make an example of him, which is quite easy to do, especially when you have already made the effort to convict him in the court of public opinion.
[/quote]
I know all the big guys want to relate but sometimes you have to call it what it is, defending the “guilty” as innocent is what perpetuates such negative perception of steroids.
If Cushings and others can be successful, not roid raging freaks, plus admit to roids then people people would have a valid response to roid rage and other unclear consequences of use. Unfortunately they would be the Martyrs of steriod use but it has to happen.
In this case the guy was punished before the thread started so he was proven guilty.
The other question is why is it guilty? If we say he’s on steriods last year, why would everybody come to his defense as if he did something wrong. Then 10 minute later go to a steroid support thread?
I believe Defranco over anyone else man, sorry, but I do. Maybe I’m wrong to, but I always stick up for someone that works taht hard as honest until they PROVE they are full of shit. Where I come from, effort means something.[/quote]
Defranco has a vested interest in Cushing being clean. If ONE of his athletes (and a star of his, at that) goes down for a violation, he could very well lose ALL of his business.
How many times has an athlete been closely affiliated with a performance specialist of some sort, gone down for doping, the specialist claimed no knowledge, and that ACTUALLY been the truth? Refer back to Victor Conte and BALCO.[/quote]
I agree with you Stronghold, but I don’t think DeFranco would bullshit to help his business. Its just a feeling I have about him so I’ll probably get crushed for saying that. But the guy doesnt give off that vibe to me.
Does anyone how they measure hCG? For all the facts and everything being released it seems like this is not a very clear cut case.
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
I heard a great interview with a sports writer who holds a vote for the defensive player of the year, and he said that he will again vote for Brian Cushing in the re-vote.
He stated that not only is this still a fluid situation with new information being released daily and confusion clouding all of it, but that you cannot make rules and then enforce them retroactively. If you want to re-vote on a player that has failed a test, make that a rule now, and enforce it in the future.[/quote]
That’s uncharacteristically sensible for a journalist. Do you remember who it was?[/quote]
whoever it was I know Barry Bonds wish he would have wrote an article for him.
I believe Defranco over anyone else man, sorry, but I do. Maybe I’m wrong to, but I always stick up for someone that works taht hard as honest until they PROVE they are full of shit. Where I come from, effort means something.[/quote]
Defranco has a vested interest in Cushing being clean. If ONE of his athletes (and a star of his, at that) goes down for a violation, he could very well lose ALL of his business.
How many times has an athlete been closely affiliated with a performance specialist of some sort, gone down for doping, the specialist claimed no knowledge, and that ACTUALLY been the truth? Refer back to Victor Conte and BALCO.[/quote]
I’m aware of that, fully.
But I’m going to believe him until he is proven guilty… You can call me any name you want to for it, but it is what it is.
I’m going to take the man at his word, and until his word is shown to be shit, which it might just be…
I’ve been accused myself too many times to damn someone because they stand out.
good article… standing behind your people. The fact that the positive test was back in September and we’re just hearing about it now raises questions. “slightly elevated” levels of some thing your body actually produces normally is a pretty weak thing to hit someone on without follow on proof I think. Hopefully this all works out cause Cushing is a beast and he was a stud as SC.
.greg.[/quote]
For clarity. Healthy men will NOT produce hCG. There are diseases that can raise hCG levels and ways to create false postives but it is abnormal for a man to have hCG in his system.
You can say the same thing about virtually any drug test.[/quote]
Well of course, but the likelihood of obtaining a false negative on a polygraph is far higher than vs. a urine or blood sample.[/quote]
He was saying the possibility of a false positive or false negative made the test worthless. If that were the case, any test would be worthless. While pollygraphs aren’t 99% accurate, it still adds credence to his case. I think the very fact that he was willing to take the test makes him more believable.
I’m sorry, but saying you believe DeFranco over anyone else makes no sense. Do any of us know him personally? Like someone else pointed out, he has a vested interest in his “star pupil”, and if Cushing were to be proven to have used a PED without a doubt then DeFranco would take an enormous hit. I don’t want that to sound like I don’t believe him[DeFranco], it’s just something to think about.
Personally, I believe that DeFranco believes Cushing didn’t take anything wrong. I’m not sure I believe that Cushing didn’t take anything wrong though. We’ll have to wait and see, hopefully.
good article… standing behind your people. The fact that the positive test was back in September and we’re just hearing about it now raises questions. “slightly elevated” levels of some thing your body actually produces normally is a pretty weak thing to hit someone on without follow on proof I think. Hopefully this all works out cause Cushing is a beast and he was a stud as SC.
.greg.[/quote]
For clarity. Healthy men will NOT produce hCG. There are diseases that can raise hCG levels and ways to create false postives but it is abnormal for a man to have hCG in his system. [/quote]
so what Joe D said about cush having a high reading of hCG after training is BS?
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I’m sorry, but saying you believe DeFranco over anyone else makes no sense. Do any of us know him personally? [/quote]
What can I say, I guess it doesn’t make sense to some…
But I believe someone that works that hard, until their word is proven to be shit. Not everyone on earth is a slave to the $ first and his word second.
I’m not trying to convert anyone to my POV either, I’m just saying.
But after saying what he has said, if it comes out Cush did use, Joe looks even worse than if he just zipped it…
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
I know they are different positions, but will Cushing fall off like Merriman did? Only time will tell. Either way the guy will always have the monkey on his back.[/quote]
merriman didnt fall off cause he stopped taking steroids, he started to suck after he blew his knee out…he was actually still good when he came back from his 4 game suspension. So Cush will still be a beast as long as he stays healthy[/quote]
LOL
That’s the same thing all the other ones who got caught with steroids thought.
You ever think these guys get injured alot easier when they’re not using.[/quote]
Yeah merriman was no where near the player he used to be after he got busted. Not even close (that was pre knee injury)
.greg.
[/quote]
No it was not pre knee injury…and please dont go off stats, stats dont account for reeking havoc on the field, or another team trying to game plan around merriman
good article… standing behind your people. The fact that the positive test was back in September and we’re just hearing about it now raises questions. “slightly elevated” levels of some thing your body actually produces normally is a pretty weak thing to hit someone on without follow on proof I think. Hopefully this all works out cause Cushing is a beast and he was a stud as SC.
.greg.[/quote]
Im actually backing off of you for recognizing Cushings Savagery
You can say the same thing about virtually any drug test.[/quote]
Well of course, but the likelihood of obtaining a false negative on a polygraph is far higher than vs. a urine or blood sample.[/quote]
He was saying the possibility of a false positive or false negative made the test worthless. If that were the case, any test would be worthless. While pollygraphs aren’t 99% accurate, it still adds credence to his case. I think the very fact that he was willing to take the test makes him more believable.[/quote]
I was unclear, so Duce is right insofar as that was the impression my comment left. But stronghold is right in that ‘polygraph inaccuracy > drug test inaccuracy’ is what I was getting after.
good article… standing behind your people. The fact that the positive test was back in September and we’re just hearing about it now raises questions. “slightly elevated” levels of some thing your body actually produces normally is a pretty weak thing to hit someone on without follow on proof I think. Hopefully this all works out cause Cushing is a beast and he was a stud as SC.
.greg.[/quote]
For clarity. Healthy men will NOT produce hCG. There are diseases that can raise hCG levels and ways to create false postives but it is abnormal for a man to have hCG in his system. [/quote]
so what Joe D said about cush having a high reading of hCG after training is BS?[/quote]
The stuff I know about hCG primarily revolves around its application with steroids. There’s no way I can say for sure if Joe is right or wrong. Maybe someone like Bill Roberts could share his opinion on Joe DeFranco’s thoughts.
I feel its obvious he took roids. That is not an inherent judgement, as I suspect quite a few athletes take roids.
What this does bring up, though, is how do we deal with steroids. War is not a solution, whether on Marijuana nor on terrorism. The label is too broad. There would be no NFL without steroids, too much contact, to much damage, to many injuries, to much money. PLain and simple, the NFL has created its own monster. Fact two, the people who push boundaries go farthest or the flame out.
None of us can predict the intangible impact Cushing has on and NFL field, what kind of athlete he is naturally etc. So if Cushing failed this test cause he is an idiot who was obviously (and I strongly feel this was a case of smoke coming from the fire) I’m ok with that, its his job to separate his image as a player with his image as himself. He is not Brian Cushing the NFL ROY, DPOY, AP All-Pro, HcG user etc.
Peter King is an opinionated fuck sometimes, he’d gladly vote for Clay Matthews even though he has those same rumours following him. I suspect him, absolutely. But to take it away from Cushing cause he got caught for something his profession almost demands of him is fucked. Fuck the media, Goddamn lecherous and hubristic bastards
[quote]Kanada wrote:
I feel its obvious he took roids. That is not an inherent judgement, as I suspect quite a few athletes take roids.
What this does bring up, though, is how do we deal with steroids. War is not a solution, whether on Marijuana nor on terrorism. The label is too broad. There would be no NFL without steroids, too much contact, to much damage, to many injuries, to much money. PLain and simple, the NFL has created its own monster. Fact two, the people who push boundaries go farthest or the flame out.
None of us can predict the intangible impact Cushing has on and NFL field, what kind of athlete he is naturally etc. So if Cushing failed this test cause he is an idiot who was obviously (and I strongly feel this was a case of smoke coming from the fire) I’m ok with that, its his job to separate his image as a player with his image as himself. He is not Brian Cushing the NFL ROY, DPOY, AP All-Pro, HcG user etc.
Peter King is an opinionated fuck sometimes, he’d gladly vote for Clay Matthews even though he has those same rumours following him. I suspect him, absolutely. But to take it away from Cushing cause he got caught for something his profession almost demands of him is fucked. Fuck the media, Goddamn lecherous and hubristic bastards [/quote]
While I dont agree that it’s obvious that he used steroids. I think the rest of this post is pretty well said.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I’m sorry, but saying you believe DeFranco over anyone else makes no sense. Do any of us know him personally? [/quote]
What can I say, I guess it doesn’t make sense to some…
But I believe someone that works that hard, until their word is proven to be shit. Not everyone on earth is a slave to the $ first and his word second.
I’m not trying to convert anyone to my POV either, I’m just saying.
But after saying what he has said, if it comes out Cush did use, Joe looks even worse than if he just zipped it…
[/quote]
And DeFranco would suffer through no fault of his own, if he’s legit on his stance. I’ve never met the guy, but the constant use of the word “family” seemed a little fishy to me. Then again, he could be that legitimately passionate about his guys and mean every word. Either way, I personally don’t feel this should reflect poorly on him, but unless Cushing’s proven 100% innocent he’s gonna experience some level of heat.
The one thing I think everybody needs to keep in mind is that there is no “smoking gun” here. There hasn’t been a piece of paper published that has the results on it (and we’ve all had bloodwork done so we know that’s now the labs do it).
As for the high result due to exercise, wouldn’t that mean that almost every athlete would test with the same elevated levels immediatly after competition (think olympic here they do blood test right after the events).
And my last point would be that there is a massive amount of spin control going on here on all sides. The NFL doesn’t want these guys testing positive (looks bad on the league). Himself, the team, NFL, agent and PR people don’t want this because it’s a ton of lost revenue $$$$$$.
We may never know officialy what the story is. The NFL can’t release the results due to HIPPA and also their contract with the Union. So we have to rely on Cushing, and you can be sure not a word is coming out of him until it goes through his agent.
good article… standing behind your people. The fact that the positive test was back in September and we’re just hearing about it now raises questions. “slightly elevated” levels of some thing your body actually produces normally is a pretty weak thing to hit someone on without follow on proof I think. Hopefully this all works out cause Cushing is a beast and he was a stud as SC.
.greg.[/quote]
For clarity. Healthy men will NOT produce hCG. There are diseases that can raise hCG levels and ways to create false postives but it is abnormal for a man to have hCG in his system. [/quote]
That being the case then the only other exonerating possibility is lab error. I would like to beleive he is innocent but knowing what EXTREMELY VERY LITTLE I know about lab testing procedures I would think the chance of contamination or error is low.
Presumably they take the original (blood?) sample. Take from that sample and test. If they get a positive then they retest the orginal sample. Right? Something like that?