I see a lot of discussion regarding cruise dosages and, from what I can tell, the common wisdom is that 200mg/week is preferred… but my question is why?
Is there something inherently unhealthy or undesirable about cruising higher (220-240… or really any higher amount)? What is magical about 200?
Really looking to understand the science to help inform healthy decision-making.
IMO, once you decide to “cruise” you have taken your source for testosterone to be exogenous going forward.
As to what is the ideal dose, it seems most want to run higher than TRT dose (~140mg/wk). So 200mg/wk might keep you very high total testosterone when blood testing (depending on when you test after the last injection). Is that level a health concern? I don’t know.
If there is anything magical about 200mg/wk, it is that many testosterone injections are 200mg/cc. So, 1cc per week.
There are many here that are much more knowledgeable about cruising strategy.
1/2 your age +7 is what I always say.
I have noticed many guys seem to cruise on 1 mL a week. If they use Test C, that is usually 200 mg/wk, if Test E it is usually 250 mg/wk.
I’d say picking a cruise dose is more about how developed you plan on being. How much muscle you want to be able to hold. Basically if you plan on blasting 3 grams of gear, it doesn’t make much sense to cruise on 100 mg/wk. If you plan on blasting 500 mg/wk tops, a typical TRT dose is probably fine for holding gains.
Personally, I don’t see much point in blasting a lot of gear then losing it on cruise. I also don’t plan on being huge either. So it makes sense for me to have the cruise and the blast be on the lower side of things for blast and cruise. I am cruising on 145 mg/wk currently.
Hoping this is sarcasm
1/2 (your age) + 7 = socially acceptable dating pool
Umm I’m not cruising? I’m just on TRT @ 26mg/day Test C and overdue to order bloodwork lol
Cuz most people are around 200lbs here.
No one at like 280lbs lean would cruise on 200mgs.
Cruise dosage depends on the lean body mass - the bigger you are the more you need, of course as size and gains and also maintenance ability is dose dependant.
Id say start at a dose that is your weight and rounded up. Then go from there.
So i am 250-255, so my lowest dose would be 300mgs if i would cruise for a long time. If im getting a quick break like 2-3 months, id stay on around 500mgs of test, cuz i blast on around 1,5 grams.
If a cruise is longer, and you still plan on progressing and blasting, id say - cruise on the largest dose you can, while keeping your BP low, and HDL high. There is no point of cruising at all if your BP is shit on a cruise - you might aswell just blast and actually gain.
You need to cruise to get some rest from high BP and low HDL.
This makes a lot of sense. So, the baseline really should be 1g per pound of bodyweight with some added margin for growth (maximize while maintaining healthy BP and HDL).
I’m a lean 220 and I’ve been running 220 for a long time with no negative sides whatsoever; I’m currently a month into a mini-blast at 400 test + 125 deca + 50 anavar (daily) and - with zero side effects thus far - started questioning why I would go back down to 200 or even 220. I think 250 might be my new normal if my vitals all check out.
I’m getting blood work tomorrow (27 days in to a 60 day cycle), so I’ll have to report back. My last blood work was 220 test only and all values were within acceptable ranges.
BP is 130/75, which is effectively unchanged from when I was on 220 test only.
As far as appearance, I honestly can’t say I notice much more of a difference. I’ve been training hard and I’d say I look about the same as I’d expect from that same level of training without anavar.
I’ve never noticed “gains” from deca per se (although I’ve only been taking it for a few months), but I do notice my recurring elbow tendinitis has subsided (I typically had to manage it with soft tissue work before).
Will do, although results may be skewed by the fact that I switched from amridex to aromasin at the same time (to help offset negative lipid impact of the oxandrolone and to improve SHBG). It may be more valid to provide blood work in a few weeks post-cycle (I’ll transition back to just test) as I intend to stay on aromasin.
The point of a cruise is health, so I’d pick whatever dose allows for that. 200mg is a nice round number, and I’d say if you are holding more muscle than your average natty, the higher dose may be needed just to hold onto the muscle
Id say its ineffective dose of deca and almost too low of a test for lean 220 to see gains in 60 days.
Based on my results after 26 days, I agree with this assessment. My intent was to be pragmatic to avoid undesirable side effects, particularly androgenic/estrogenic side effects from the test and any kind of erectile or cardiac issues with the deca.
Thinking forward to my next cycle, what would you recommend for dosages assuming my blood work all looks good mid-cycle and post-cycle (I got the former done this morning, but no results yet)? I had planned to increase already, but I was on the fence about going to 500 or 600. I hadn’t considered increasing the deca because of the reports of cardiac “remodeling”, but perhaps I should.
If someone is really lean at 220, that is a lot of lean muscle.
I wouldnt consider doing less than 500 of anything.
My opinion on how to build cycles for big boys nowdays is - 750-1000mgs of test, with a deca or tren of at least 500mgs. If needed, can add primo or EQ, and also cycle orals on and off.
The difference between what i would suggest and what others would is the fact that i am mostly interested in results and sadly those do come with a risk but so does results in car racing or anything worth doing.
As far as cardiac remodeling - just do heart imaging every year and you will see if there is anything going on. It doesnt happen in 1 year. So if you do it every year, you will see if something is bad way before it will be actually worth stressing about.
I have been on loads of shit for years on end with no breaks. My echo shows just the amount of LVH that is “normal” for anyone who does any sports.
Its what my cardiologist said when i asked about this. If nothing happened to me so far, its impossible for my heart to suddenly go to shit in 1 year in between me coming in for a checkup.
Electrical remodeling would be directly from the AAS (as opposed to indirect like high BP from AAS), right?
Would any med help with that? Maybe a beta blocker?
I do think it is wise to monitor the heart while using AAS, especially the simple stuff like BP and heart rate. I think some are better off with a BP med while on cycle (if they insist on cycling).
I have a question about BP. Typically, I believe you’re supposed to measure in the morning and fasted… when I do this, my numbers are good-ish (130/75).
When I measure later in the day after food, exercise, and caffeine, my systolic (top) value is higher… in the 140s.
Is it a concern to be in the “high blood pressure” zone at any time? Or only in that basal fasted state in the morning?
Thanks.
Just to chime in. Your measurements are supposed to be in a relaxed state. You wouldn’t do it after activity before settling down for example. You may need 5-10 minutes of sitting still before doing a measurement.
I like to kinda average my measurements to get a bigger picture of what is going on. I don’t take the 115/75 all by itself, I also need to consider the 135/85 measurement. Kinda averaging them I think is good to understand overall risk. I think it also accounts for some lifestyle too. Like do you use a lot of caffeine? If so, your BP is probably higher later compared to just waking up.
I like your method. I probably need to be taking measurements throughout the day.
I use a lot of caffeine (by my standard); it’s my only real vice (I don’t drink or use recreational drugs). Typically, I’ll have two shots of espresso in the morning and 200mg of caffeine once or twice later in the day in the form of pre-workout or caffeinated beverages.
Take at least 3 readings every time you do one and write down the average. Sit, relax, take deep breaths. If the first reading is 140, the third might be down to 128 as it is many times in my case.