Croc Hunter Dead

Off Topic
161

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Go heavy fool wrote:
Rockscar wrote:

What prompted this? What makes you think I live a boring and mundane life?

Even more, if I have children, it’s my responsibility to make sure I’m there for them. That’s far from mundane. If I chose to consistantly put my life in danger for a thrill, then I’m irresponsible to my loved ones.

Living on the edge to satisfy your own needs above those of your kids is just wrong.

You have no frame of reference on this one.

While I’m not saying he deserved it, I was saying that he should have put his family and living for them above all things. One way to ensure that would be to get away from playing with death.
This is no different than a hard core drug user continuing to get high for the thrill of it. Is it not?

Let me see if i can make sense of this for you Rockscar… probably not, but I’ll give it a try.

You say his number one objective should have been to put his family above all other things. O.K. sounds good to me. I believed he did that. He died at 44… his family has 44 years of memories and instruction on how to go about living your life. most of his is even on videotape.

He tought his son and daughter more in the very few years that they knew him… than most dads will be able to do in an entire lifetime. He tought them how to love, how to protect, how to give back to society, how to save lives, how to be a savior for wildlife, how to be a decent human being, how to be a man, how to live life with enthusiasm and vigor.

Sure, all parents should do this. This does not justify anything. You are saying that he then could do whatever the hell he wanted because he taught his children as you describe above?

the main protection he provided was how to live your life to the fullest and give every ounce of your heart to it… these are lessons that can’t be tought by the living no matter how hard a deadbeat loser dad tries… especially when he sits on the sofa and stuffs his face and never shows his children the meaning and the purpose of life. Steve was larger than life and he paved the way for his children to follow in his footsteps.

This guy will teach and protect his kids from ignorance of society more by being a deceased father than will 99% of the living ones. His legacy and lifelong lessons will live forever. How many people can say that about their own lives or their fathers.

You put this guy too high on a pedestool. 99%??? C’mon now.

My dad still comes home from work everyday and does nothing to better himself or society. Steve has endless video of how to be a man and how a real man lives his life and loves life to the fullest… watch this man work just one time and its all the protection you’ll ever need… that is protection my friend.

Watching a father wrestle crocs is protection? That’s this biggest croc of shit I’ve ever heard.

When a dead man can protect you far more from the evils of life than an alive one can… I’d say he gave his children all the protection they will ever need.

I can go over to my dads house right now and there is nothing he will do or say that will surpass the humanity of the way Steve lived his life. I’d be proud to have Steve as my father for just one day, I could learn so much from his passion that that’s all the protection i would ever need… the memories and lessons would last for a lifetime.

You don’t think he’s protecting his children now because he has passed… I beg to differ and I think his children will always be safe being lucky enough to have him for a dad and being able to see the legacy of this man everyday… the on screen legacy of someone they once called daddy.

No videotape will protect his kids. You also make a lot of assumptions about how he lived his life with his kids. Did you know him?

Do you think his kids would rather see vids of him, or have him around? The kids are so young, their memories will mostly be from videotape. Sad really.
[/quote]

Rockscar I would have been better off having a father like Steve for 6 minutes, rather than my own father who tought me abosolutely nothing in 60 years.

I understand your point… I really do. But just being there isn’t enough. It’s what you do when you are there that means everything in the world. I would trade my dads success, money, and everything he thought he was for a real father. A real father knows how to love and sacrafice… even if it means your own life for the benefit of others. In this case Steve benefited not only humans but many wildlife as well.

Now thats putting in some quality time.

If you wanna sacrafice “quality” for “quantity”… go right ahead. But I’ll tell you this much, I’d take a man of integrity and honor for a short while over a liftime deuchebag. Most fathers of today are the latter. Most men have no idea what it means to be a father… and the biggest repsponsibility a father has is to lead by example and show his children the way. Just being alive isn’t going to guarentee any kind of protection for your children. It should, but it doesn’t. Any dickface loser can be a dad, but it takes a real man to be a father. Not many men will ever know how to do this unless you’ve had one. How can you teach your son or daughter to be a man or a woman if they never known one?

I hope you’re a good father Rockscar, because its the most important job you will ever have. You still have time to accomplish that if you havn’t already. You will know when you children are grown and see the persons they have become.

162

[quote]BradTGIF wrote:

Is anyone else recognizing the parallelism betwenn Steve Irwin and the Grizzly man?

[/quote]

Fuck no. That grizzly man was completely totally certified bat shit insane. His behavior with the bears was obviously driven by his own internal conflicts and problems. I truly believe Irwin was completely sincere in his efforts to help the animals, and any number of interviews convey this. He set out to educate the public through his programs, Grizzly Man just videotaped himself looking at bears so he could jack off to it later.

163

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Watching a father wrestle crocs is protection? That’s this biggest croc of shit I’ve ever heard.

[/quote]

Of course… becasue that’s all you see. I see a man who loved his wife with passion, his children with passion, wildlife with passion, life with passion. If you can’t see that, then you’re just a blind fool.

Being a father and protecting your children is alot more than buying a home with a guard dog and putting food on the table… those are requirements for most of us. Leading by example is how you become a fther, by showing love on and compassion for life and everything that’s in it. When you can’t do this, you are nothing more than a sperm donor… don’t ever think you deserve the title ‘Father’. Steve will always be a father to his children, and he can accomplish this dead. There are a shitload of sperm donors that will never be given this title and they’re still alive… and they will be for a long time. My defintion of a protective father is much different than yours. I feel just be being alive, alot of fathers do their children more harm than good. Now I ask you, what kind of protection is that?

164

[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Go heavy fool wrote:
Rockscar wrote:

What prompted this? What makes you think I live a boring and mundane life?

Even more, if I have children, it’s my responsibility to make sure I’m there for them. That’s far from mundane. If I chose to consistantly put my life in danger for a thrill, then I’m irresponsible to my loved ones.

Living on the edge to satisfy your own needs above those of your kids is just wrong.

You have no frame of reference on this one.

While I’m not saying he deserved it, I was saying that he should have put his family and living for them above all things. One way to ensure that would be to get away from playing with death.
This is no different than a hard core drug user continuing to get high for the thrill of it. Is it not?

Let me see if i can make sense of this for you Rockscar… probably not, but I’ll give it a try.

You say his number one objective should have been to put his family above all other things. O.K. sounds good to me. I believed he did that. He died at 44… his family has 44 years of memories and instruction on how to go about living your life. most of his is even on videotape.

He tought his son and daughter more in the very few years that they knew him… than most dads will be able to do in an entire lifetime. He tought them how to love, how to protect, how to give back to society, how to save lives, how to be a savior for wildlife, how to be a decent human being, how to be a man, how to live life with enthusiasm and vigor.

Sure, all parents should do this. This does not justify anything. You are saying that he then could do whatever the hell he wanted because he taught his children as you describe above?

the main protection he provided was how to live your life to the fullest and give every ounce of your heart to it… these are lessons that can’t be tought by the living no matter how hard a deadbeat loser dad tries… especially when he sits on the sofa and stuffs his face and never shows his children the meaning and the purpose of life. Steve was larger than life and he paved the way for his children to follow in his footsteps.

This guy will teach and protect his kids from ignorance of society more by being a deceased father than will 99% of the living ones. His legacy and lifelong lessons will live forever. How many people can say that about their own lives or their fathers.

You put this guy too high on a pedestool. 99%??? C’mon now.

My dad still comes home from work everyday and does nothing to better himself or society. Steve has endless video of how to be a man and how a real man lives his life and loves life to the fullest… watch this man work just one time and its all the protection you’ll ever need… that is protection my friend.

Watching a father wrestle crocs is protection? That’s this biggest croc of shit I’ve ever heard.

When a dead man can protect you far more from the evils of life than an alive one can… I’d say he gave his children all the protection they will ever need.

I can go over to my dads house right now and there is nothing he will do or say that will surpass the humanity of the way Steve lived his life. I’d be proud to have Steve as my father for just one day, I could learn so much from his passion that that’s all the protection i would ever need… the memories and lessons would last for a lifetime.

You don’t think he’s protecting his children now because he has passed… I beg to differ and I think his children will always be safe being lucky enough to have him for a dad and being able to see the legacy of this man everyday… the on screen legacy of someone they once called daddy.

No videotape will protect his kids. You also make a lot of assumptions about how he lived his life with his kids. Did you know him?

Do you think his kids would rather see vids of him, or have him around? The kids are so young, their memories will mostly be from videotape. Sad really.

Rockscar I would have been better off having a father like Steve for 6 minutes, rather than my own father who tought me abosolutely nothing in 60 years.

I understand your point… I really do. But just being there isn’t enough. It’s what you do when you are there that means everything in the world. I would trade my dads success, money, and everything he thought he was for a real father. A real father knows how to love and sacrafice… even if it means your own life for the benefit of others. In this case Steve benefited not only humans but many wildlife as well.

Now thats putting in some quality time.

If you wanna sacrafice “quality” for “quantity”… go right ahead. But I’ll tell you this much, I’d take a man of integrity and honor for a short while over a liftime deuchebag. Most fathers of today are the latter. Most men have no idea what it means to be a father… and the biggest repsponsibility a father has is to lead by example and show his children the way. Just being alive isn’t going to guarentee any kind of protection for your children. It should, but it doesn’t. Any dickface loser can be a dad, but it takes a real man to be a father. Not many men will ever know how to do this unless you’ve had one. How can you teach your son or daughter to be a man or a woman if they never known one?

I hope you’re a good father Rockscar, because its the most important job you will ever have. You still have time to accomplish that if you havn’t already. You will know when you children are grown and see the persons they have become.

[/quote]

Your words are true and heartfelt. My Father never had a father…or a mother. He was a WWII baby. He was treated like an unwanted stepchild when his uncle and aunt picked him up.

My father was great. He was always at my football and soccer games and always played with my friends in the streets. He rode me hard with schoolwork too.

Every chance I get I tell him that I wish I could be just a fraction of the father he was. I was lucky.

I take my job as a father seriously. This ultimately will be my legacy for my 2 girls. No matter how much money I make, no matter how many friends I have, my legacy as a father will continue to live in the hearts of my children.

I’m sorry to hear about your situation. Now you know what NOT to do. Break the cycle.

165

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Did you know him?

Do you think his kids would rather see vids of him, or have him around? The kids are so young, their memories will mostly be from videotape. Sad really.
[/quote]

No I didn’t know him personally. And I still feel even with him dead, he is a better role model than my own father. Learning from him, I will be able to be a more protective and productive parent than my own living father will ever be able to provide for… the knowledge and knowhow.

yes its sad a great man is gone and of course they would rather have him here… they could learn more and be loved more. But these kids will already have been taught more and been loved more by their father than most kids will get out of their own fathers in an entire lifetime. The short quality time Steve had with his kids can’t be denied and they will reap benefits beyond belief by having this man as a father… even if it was for a brief period. Nothing last forever, but you can do the most with the time you have here and I believe Steve did that. He did more in 44 years than most men can could in 400 years.

My point is the quality Steve had is much more valuable than the quantity. Quality and quantity of anything really. He did more than just save animals. He touched lives, and that is my point.

Just like in the movie ‘Braveheart’… when Mel Gibson says “every man dies, not every man truely lives”. Well Steve Irwin truely lived. If only we could all be so lucky to get 44 years of truely living.

166

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
I take my job as a father seriously. This ultimately will be my legacy for my 2 girls. No matter how much money I make, no matter how many friends I have, my legacy as a father will continue to live in the hearts of my children.

I’m sorry to hear about your situation. Now you know what NOT to do. Break the cycle.
[/quote]

Yes… that is how I figured out how to become a good father. I will just do they opposite of everything my father did. I’m glad god left a way for us to figure out how to become fathers when we’ve never known one. Pretty much don’t do anything the way your father did… if he was a deuchebag like my own. I had to learn how to become a man and be a great father from the closest thing I had to it… my mother. I got lucky there.

I feel the same way about Steve as I do my own mother, they can both pass and I will miss them but I have felt they have already shown me enough and its all I’ll ever need.

My father is the one who needs to stay alive because he hasn’t shown me shit and he better before his life is up… or he just defeated the purpose of ever becoming a dad. Unless he mans up, he’ll always be just a sperm donor to me and never a father.

167

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Yes, I get what you are saying. I just feel for the kids.

He’ll never see them graduate, marry, have grandchildren etc. THAT is the worst part of this all.

At some point in his life he must have been thinking this.[/quote]

Based on this thinking we should all live in isolation with no contact with others, never leaving the safety of our homes – because God knows driving down the road is dangerous and we may not make it home to our families at any time.

You can not live your life in fear of what is around you. At some point you have to acknowledge that you do what you can to be safe, but sometimes there is nothing you can really do.

I do not think he took risks just for the glory of taking them. He understood there were risk and took all the precautions he could for each situation. That is the best he could do and still do the job he was passionate about and loved so much.

By your reasoning there would be no Police officers, Military personnel, Firefighters, Nurses or Doctors for that matter – because many times the hazards they face are unseen as well!

168

[quote]firebug9 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Yes, I get what you are saying. I just feel for the kids.

He’ll never see them graduate, marry, have grandchildren etc. THAT is the worst part of this all.

At some point in his life he must have been thinking this.

Based on this thinking we should all live in isolation with no contact with others, never leaving the safety of our homes – because God knows driving down the road is dangerous and we may not make it home to our families at any time.
[/quote]

Exactly, Steve Irwin was the 3rd person recorded to date to die from a stingray, the fucking 3RD!! How many people die in car crashes everyday?

By saying he should of thought of his children and slowed down, most definitely implies that he was at fault for his own death, by that logic, screw all those asshole crash victims! They were lousy fathers being irresponsible for getting into cars!

169

[quote]firebug9 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Yes, I get what you are saying. I just feel for the kids.

He’ll never see them graduate, marry, have grandchildren etc. THAT is the worst part of this all.

At some point in his life he must have been thinking this.

Based on this thinking we should all live in isolation with no contact with others, never leaving the safety of our homes – because God knows driving down the road is dangerous and we may not make it home to our families at any time.

You can not live your life in fear of what is around you. At some point you have to acknowledge that you do what you can to be safe, but sometimes there is nothing you can really do.

I do not think he took risks just for the glory of taking them. He understood there were risk and took all the precautions he could for each situation. That is the best he could do and still do the job he was passionate about and loved so much.

By your reasoning there would be no Police officers, Military personnel, Firefighters, Nurses or Doctors for that matter – because many times the hazards they face are unseen as well![/quote]

I disagree with this. There are risks worth taking because the reward is so great. Saving a child in a burning building is far more worthwhile than wresting a croc.

170

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I disagree with this. There are risks worth taking because the reward is so great. Saving a child in a burning building is far more worthwhile than wresting a croc.[/quote]

Right. But saving the lives of countless animals, including endangered species, AND promoting wildlife conservation to millions is also more worthwhile than wrestling a croc.

I never seen him jump on a croc for any reason other than to help it, or the species.

171

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
firebug9 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Yes, I get what you are saying. I just feel for the kids.

He’ll never see them graduate, marry, have grandchildren etc. THAT is the worst part of this all.

At some point in his life he must have been thinking this.

Based on this thinking we should all live in isolation with no contact with others, never leaving the safety of our homes – because God knows driving down the road is dangerous and we may not make it home to our families at any time.

You can not live your life in fear of what is around you. At some point you have to acknowledge that you do what you can to be safe, but sometimes there is nothing you can really do.

I do not think he took risks just for the glory of taking them. He understood there were risk and took all the precautions he could for each situation. That is the best he could do and still do the job he was passionate about and loved so much.

By your reasoning there would be no Police officers, Military personnel, Firefighters, Nurses or Doctors for that matter – because many times the hazards they face are unseen as well!

I disagree with this. There are risks worth taking because the reward is so great. Saving a child in a burning building is far more worthwhile than wresting a croc.[/quote]

That would imply that we are the only species worth saving?! So I would have to disagree with you there. No living being deserves to die of anything other than natural causes – but it happens every day to all types of beings.

Irwin wrestled crocs to raise awareness of our surroundings, of the things we take for granted. Nature is what we are part of – most of us have it wrong in thinking that Nature is part of us. Many animals and insects were here long before humans and Nature was here first…Not us. Yes, saving a child from a burning building is noble – to a degree – and yes I do and would risk my life for my job. Does this make me a bad Mother – I have four kids? No, but the accountant that goes hang gliding or rock climbing does it make him a bad father if he has small children. I don’t think so – it makes him alive and living life.

Just my opinion…

172

[quote]firebug9 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Yes, I get what you are saying. I just feel for the kids.

He’ll never see them graduate, marry, have grandchildren etc. THAT is the worst part of this all.

At some point in his life he must have been thinking this.

Based on this thinking we should all live in isolation with no contact with others, never leaving the safety of our homes – because God knows driving down the road is dangerous and we may not make it home to our families at any time.

You can not live your life in fear of what is around you. At some point you have to acknowledge that you do what you can to be safe, but sometimes there is nothing you can really do.

I do not think he took risks just for the glory of taking them. He understood there were risk and took all the precautions he could for each situation. That is the best he could do and still do the job he was passionate about and loved so much.

By your reasoning there would be no Police officers, Military personnel, Firefighters, Nurses or Doctors for that matter – because many times the hazards they face are unseen as well![/quote]

You totally miss my point. Police, fire, etc is not going out looking to tangle with deadly snakes and crocs each and every day.

173

[quote]jbodzin wrote:
BTW anyone remember the South park episode “Prehistoric Ice Man”?

“If I get bit out here, I’m 200 kilometers from the nearest hospital: I’d better be real careful jamming my thumb in its butthole. Oh, boy, it’s pissed off now.”
[/quote]

I loved that episode!

When I heard that he died from a stingray’s barb, I wondered if he had pissed it off by jamming his thumb up its butthole. (Does a stingray have a butthole?)

Yes, I tend to have a sense of humor about it. I just don’t understand how people have these imaginary close “connections” with celebrities and can feel so strongly about a celebrity’s death.

As for the claims that he was a leader in educating the public about wild animals and helped support animal causes - have you visited and supported any of your local animal sanctuaries run by volunteers and low-paid naturalists?

In my opinion, Irwin was more of an entertainer, like Sigmund and Roy, than an educator/naturalist. The South Park episode was showing that via its parody.

174

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
firebug9 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Yes, I get what you are saying. I just feel for the kids.

He’ll never see them graduate, marry, have grandchildren etc. THAT is the worst part of this all.

At some point in his life he must have been thinking this.

Based on this thinking we should all live in isolation with no contact with others, never leaving the safety of our homes – because God knows driving down the road is dangerous and we may not make it home to our families at any time.

You can not live your life in fear of what is around you. At some point you have to acknowledge that you do what you can to be safe, but sometimes there is nothing you can really do.

I do not think he took risks just for the glory of taking them. He understood there were risk and took all the precautions he could for each situation. That is the best he could do and still do the job he was passionate about and loved so much.

By your reasoning there would be no Police officers, Military personnel, Firefighters, Nurses or Doctors for that matter – because many times the hazards they face are unseen as well!

You totally miss my point. Police, fire, etc is not going out looking to tangle with deadly snakes and crocs each and every day.
[/quote]

No, instead they deal with fire, floods, and criminals. You’re missing the point Rock.

175

[quote]Midwest_Man wrote:
As for the claims that he was a leader in educating the public about wild animals and helped support animal causes - have you visited and supported any of your local animal sanctuaries run by volunteers and low-paid naturalists?[/quote]

Yes I have, and I did a little work for the universtity I attended.

[quote]In my opinion, Irwin was more of an entertainer, like Sigmund and Roy, than an educator/naturalist. The South Park episode was showing that via its parody.
[/quote]

South Park only brought to life what it takes for people to watch and maybe learn something. If Steve were to have droned on about the facts no one would have watched or gave a damn.

176

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
firebug9 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Yes, I get what you are saying. I just feel for the kids.

He’ll never see them graduate, marry, have grandchildren etc. THAT is the worst part of this all.

At some point in his life he must have been thinking this.

Based on this thinking we should all live in isolation with no contact with others, never leaving the safety of our homes – because God knows driving down the road is dangerous and we may not make it home to our families at any time.

You can not live your life in fear of what is around you. At some point you have to acknowledge that you do what you can to be safe, but sometimes there is nothing you can really do.

I do not think he took risks just for the glory of taking them. He understood there were risk and took all the precautions he could for each situation. That is the best he could do and still do the job he was passionate about and loved so much.

By your reasoning there would be no Police officers, Military personnel, Firefighters, Nurses or Doctors for that matter – because many times the hazards they face are unseen as well!

You totally miss my point. Police, fire, etc is not going out looking to tangle with deadly snakes and crocs each and every day.
[/quote]

Nope, I get your point. And that is not a true statement – some of the best arsonist are Volunteer Firefighters.

177

[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
All these people talking about how he was a trained expert or whatever are really just guessing, unless you’ve wrestled wild crocs yourself how can you really say how safe it is? There aren’t enough people doing it to be able to say based on statistics, so you don’t really know what you’re talking about.
[/quote]

Shitloads of people wrestle / deal with crocs, the statistics are huge on how “safe” it is. WTF do you think the people do in the zoos? the rangers? the outback? Having said that I know a guy who had his arm bitten off by one who still says it is fine to swim with them in the wild (and, he does).

Being a farmer is more dangerous than what Irwin did. I knew a guy who farmed deer, and the frikking deer killed him. Gored to death. You think bulls are fun to deal with when you’re shoving a pipe down their throat? I’ve known people get ripped open by kangaroos too. Those things are 2m tall with enormous claws. I’ve also known people bitten by just about every snake and spider Irwin ever dealt with.

I don’t think a lot of people are getting it - it is dangerous in the bush, whether you are a farmer, or a croc hunter. You’re probably safer being a croc hunter because you are alert. Everyday folk deal with these creatures too they are all over the place. Sure it is not a daily or even monthly occurrence but it is very common.

As far as I am concerned, if I swim over a stingray, I am 80% likely to get spiked. I think Steve misread the situation or pushed his luck swimming over the thing. Whatever empathy he has with creatures is lost on those brainless critters, even if he had a good relationship with the ray, the fact is, it is a reflex action.

If it hit him anywhere else he probably would have been alive but badly wounded.

If he did not pull it out he MIGHT have lived but it would have been bloody close.

178

I sure hated to hear about his untimely and misfortunate death. Alot of poeple are saying that he didnt know what he was doing and that he took wildlife lightly. I dont think so, if he did not know what he was doing, I think he would have been killed along time ago.

Sure he seemed crazy and hyper, but he was living out his dream job. Hell, more poeple are dying driving to their office everyday.

He did alot of good things for nature and wildlife.

I liked his upbeat ways, and I think he was good for television and family television. He will be a legend, and missed by millions.

My condolences go out to his family.

179

[quote]mepacho wrote:
I sure hated to hear about his untimely and misfortunate death. Alot of poeple are saying that he didnt know what he was doing and that he took wildlife lightly. I dont think so, if he did not know what he was doing, I think he would have been killed along time ago.

Sure he seemed crazy and hyper, but he was living out his dream job. Hell, more poeple are dying driving to their office everyday.

He did alot of good things for nature and wildlife.

I liked his upbeat ways, and I think he was good for television and family television. He will be a legend, and missed by millions.

My condolences go out to his family.[/quote]

Well put.

The guy had a lot of integrity, and that speaks to his legacy and the character of Australians in general.

180

[quote]BigRagoo wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
firebug9 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Yes, I get what you are saying. I just feel for the kids.

He’ll never see them graduate, marry, have grandchildren etc. THAT is the worst part of this all.

At some point in his life he must have been thinking this.

Based on this thinking we should all live in isolation with no contact with others, never leaving the safety of our homes – because God knows driving down the road is dangerous and we may not make it home to our families at any time.

You can not live your life in fear of what is around you. At some point you have to acknowledge that you do what you can to be safe, but sometimes there is nothing you can really do.

I do not think he took risks just for the glory of taking them. He understood there were risk and took all the precautions he could for each situation. That is the best he could do and still do the job he was passionate about and loved so much.

By your reasoning there would be no Police officers, Military personnel, Firefighters, Nurses or Doctors for that matter – because many times the hazards they face are unseen as well!

You totally miss my point. Police, fire, etc is not going out looking to tangle with deadly snakes and crocs each and every day.

No, instead they deal with fire, floods, and criminals. You’re missing the point Rock.[/quote]

No Colonel Sanders…you’re wrong…Mama’s right.