Critique my Nutrition & Supplement Plan

[Viets]

OK guys, after some great posts from Rhino & ksommer, (thank you guys) I’m dropping the AD and now I’m debating on how I construct my new diet and what Biotest products need to be present. Or do I start with the V-Diet first, then reaccess when I’m done?

I’m very interested in jehovasfitness’ post about 11-T helping with the diagonal lines on the sides of my belly.

Currently doing 20 minutes of Interval Cardio in the mornings M,W,F and 2 Zones of Charles Staley’s EDT in the evenings on those same days with Tues/Thus off. The EDT takes about 35 minutes, and I’m sweating bullets by the time I’m done. Is that a quality training program for what I’m after (single digits BF)?

On Saturdays I hit my arms/traps with hams/calves b/c there’s not much direct training of those in the EDT I’m doing. Sunday’s off usually to cook/prep for the upcoming week (I help my partner do hers as well).

[Rhino_Jockey]

[quote]
I am the same way. I followed the low-carb diet for a year, PERFECTLY (all organic food, high dose fish oil… etc.) and I could never lean out. It actually made me fatter. The problem is that here, low-carb seems to work best for the authors, but that isn’t necessarily the case for people like you and I. Body-types like yours can only handle very short-term low-carb periods. [/quote]

There are several major ways to fail a low-carb diet…

1. Not consuming enough fat. Protein + Low-Carb/Fat does not work. If you are eating chicken breast and broccoli, than YES your metabolism WILL DROP.

2. Not introducing refeeds. As you get leaner, if you do not strategically begin adding in refeeds, you can be sure your metabolism will drop. Your body will adapt to anything.

3. “Accidently” eating some carbs when your fat and protein intake is high.

I’ve seen people follow a low-carb diet, increase the fat intake and then cheat mid-week with carbs and totally blow it. In effect it’s like climbing stairs and taking two steps up and then 1 step down.

Nutrition is individual and it’s important to find what works best for you, however there are some general guidelines that everyone can use.

What’s the most accurate & cost effective way to have it checked?

Most accurate and cost-effective is most likely the skinfold caliper test. They have some you can buy on-line for a reasonable price, the problem is knowing where and how to pinch correctly. There are some guides I can point you too if you want to do it yourself, but it’s much easier to find a good local trainer and have them do it. A lot of trainers will do it as part of a “Free Consultation”. If not, they shouldn’t be charging too much for it. My gym does them for free.

[PonceDeLeon]

No, the most accurate and cost effective way to get BF tested is to go to a local college/university and ask if they will do a dunk tank test. Most of the larger unis will.

Should not be more than $25-30 (maybe cheaper, possibly even free) and I believe it is the most accurate method. Get it tested every 8 weeks if you can afford it, if not then every 12 should still be good.

[Rhino_Jockey]

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
No, the most accurate and cost effective way to get BF tested is to go to a local college/university and ask if they will do a dunk tank test. Most of the larger unis will.

Should not be more than $25-30 (maybe cheaper, possibly even free) and I believe it is the most accurate method. Get it tested every 8 weeks if you can afford it, if not then every 12 should still be good.[/quote]

That’s great for those of you who do not work and have other obligations. I would assume that would be time-intensive…hardly practical to do each week for measuring and monitoring.

[HK24719]

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
No, the most accurate and cost effective way to get BF tested is to go to a local college/university and ask if they will do a dunk tank test. Most of the larger unis will.[/quote]

Not to bust your chops, but hydrostatic weighing isn’t necessarily that accurate. Like most other methods, results can flactuate based on the tester and most unis will have an undergrad student perform the test.

If you want to be accurate, find a university that offers body comp testing via DEXA and you won’t even need to get wet.

[ksommer]

There are several major ways to fail a low-carb diet…

1. Not consuming enough fat. Protein + Low-Carb/Fat does not work. If you are eating chicken breast and broccoli, than YES your metabolism WILL DROP.

2. Not introducing refeeds. As you get leaner, if you do not strategically begin adding in refeeds, you can be sure your metabolism will drop. Your body will adapt to anything.

3. “Accidently” eating some carbs when your fat and protein intake is high.

I’ve seen people follow a low-carb diet, increase the fat intake and then cheat mid-week with carbs and totally blow it. In effect it’s like climbing stairs and taking two steps up and then 1 step down.

Nutrition is individual and it’s important to find what works best for you, however there are some general guidelines that everyone can use.

I would love to give you some links to my Fitday records while I was initially planning my diet, as well as links to my coach’s website. Trust me, I did it right. In fact, I even used an insulin protocol from CP. I know you are not necessarily saying that I failed it in those ways, I just wanted to reiterate my point that low-carb dieting is not always the best approach even though it is often made to be that way.

Ask yourself:
1)How are my results in the gym?
2)How is my sex drive?
3)How is my mood?

The above answers should help you determine whether or not what you are doing is working. While in the short term you must sacrifice in some of these areas to achieve lower levels of body fat, you are not yet within those ranges.

I would recommend finding a quality technician to assess your bodyfat. Being a BSP, I would recommend BioSignature of course, but I don’t feel that it is necessary in your case. To answer your question, it is from BioSig AS WELL AS documented in the literature that the subscapular skinfold correlates with insulin resistance.

A cheaper or easier way would be to determine your fasting insulin and glucose levels. Your physician can test these values for you. The lower the numbers, the better (within reason). I’d say if your insulin is below 3-4 fasting, and your glucose is below mid 80’s fasting, excluding carbs from your diet is counterproductive. These are just my opinions, however. I would add them in slowly, however as you have been on an extended ketogenic diet, and your insulin responses will be exaggerated (this is because you have been running on cortisol/adrenaline for so long - your body wants to prevent you from wasting away to nothing). I would also not include sugar in any form, even limiting fruits (some berries are okay). Beans would be the best addition to start off with. And for the love of god… eat vegetables. You acknowledged this weakness yourself.

The real answer is that you must do whatever is sustainable to bring down your bodyfat level. If you continue to try and diet it off, you will continue to fail. Diets don’t work; lifestyles do. Looks like the exercise is in line, now you just need to stop trying to diet off your fat.

[Viets]

I worked on my new meal plan today. Here’s what I’m thinking. Nothing set in stone, please critique.

1st Meal 6am
(1) Whole Omega Egg 70 6 1 4.5 0
1/2 cup Quick Oats 150 5 23 3 4
1 cup Raspberries 70 2 11 0 5
1 serv ON Whey Protein 120 24 3 1 0
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0

2nd Meal 9am
4oz Chicken Breast 100 23 0 1 0
1/2 cup dry Brown Rice 150 4 31 1 2
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0

3rd Meal Noon
4oz Grass Fed Beef 240 24 0 4.5 0
28g Shredded Cheese 2% 90 7 0 6 0
(1) Low Carb Tortilla 100 7 5 2.5 8
1/4 cup dry Brown Rice 75 2 16 0.5 1
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0

4th Meal 3pm
1 serv ON Casein 110 23 3 0.5 0
1 tbsp Smart Balance PB 100 4 3 7.5 1
1 medium Banana 105 1 24 0.5 3
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0

Pre Training 4pm
Ordering Workout Fuel
Currently taking Vasocharge

Post Training 5pm
2 serv Waxy Carb Slam 240 0 60 0 0
1 serv Xtend BCAA
1 serv Whey Isolate 90 23 0 0 0

Post Meal 6pm
4oz 99% Turkey 120 28 0 1 0
1/4 cup dry Brown Rice 75 2 16 0.5 1
(1) Low Carb Tortilla 100 7 5 2.5 8
28g Shredded Cheese 2% 90 7 0 6 0
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0

Evening Meal 9pm
1 serv ON Casein 110 23 3 0.5 0
(1) Whole Omega Egg 70 6 1 4.5 0
1 tbsp Smart Balance PB 100 4 3 7.5 1
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0
(3) NOW ZMA

New Totals 2735 255 208 72 34

Maintenance 2800 310 260 60 30

My stoopid Question of the day is, what meals do I stick the vegetables in? All of them? And what Biotest supplements do I insert in place of my current ones and which ones would be beneficial to add in and where?

I’m ordering 11-T, Flameout & Surge Recovery. I have my tub of L-Luecine, what meals do I sprinkle this on?

[redgladiator]

[quote]Viets wrote:
I worked on my new meal plan today. Here’s what I’m thinking. Nothing set in stone, please critique.

1st Meal 6am
(1) Whole Omega Egg 70 6 1 4.5 0
1/2 cup Quick Oats 150 5 23 3 4
1 cup Raspberries 70 2 11 0 5
1 serv ON Whey Protein 120 24 3 1 0
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0

2nd Meal 9am
4oz Chicken Breast 100 23 0 1 0
1/2 cup dry Brown Rice 150 4 31 1 2
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0

3rd Meal Noon
4oz Grass Fed Beef 240 24 0 4.5 0
28g Shredded Cheese 2% 90 7 0 6 0
(1) Low Carb Tortilla 100 7 5 2.5 8
1/4 cup dry Brown Rice 75 2 16 0.5 1
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0

4th Meal 3pm
1 serv ON Casein 110 23 3 0.5 0
1 tbsp Smart Balance PB 100 4 3 7.5 1
1 medium Banana 105 1 24 0.5 3
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0

Pre Training 4pm
Ordering Workout Fuel
Currently taking Vasocharge

Post Training 5pm
2 serv Waxy Carb Slam 240 0 60 0 0
1 serv Xtend BCAA
1 serv Whey Isolate 90 23 0 0 0

Post Meal 6pm
4oz 99% Turkey 120 28 0 1 0
1/4 cup dry Brown Rice 75 2 16 0.5 1
(1) Low Carb Tortilla 100 7 5 2.5 8
28g Shredded Cheese 2% 90 7 0 6 0
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0

Evening Meal 9pm
1 serv ON Casein 110 23 3 0.5 0
(1) Whole Omega Egg 70 6 1 4.5 0
1 tbsp Smart Balance PB 100 4 3 7.5 1
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0
(3) NOW ZMA

New Totals 2735 255 208 72 34

Maintenance 2800 310 260 60 30

My stoopid Question of the day is, what meals do I stick the vegetables in? All of them? And what Biotest supplements do I insert in place of my current ones and which ones would be beneficial to add in and where?

I’m ordering 11-T, Flameout & Surge Recovery. I have my tub of L-Luecine, what meals do I sprinkle this on?[/quote]

I try to have fruit or veg with every meal except my night shake. Post workout I might step up the whey a bit. For fat loss consider adding HOT-ROX. I’ve also heard wonderful things about receptormax for fat loss. L-Luecine I’ve tried it all sorts of ways, try just spooning it in your mouth and washing it down, try this way once and you won’t want to do it any other way.

You total cals is only 65 under maintenance. This is too low for any significant fat loss. If you are adding veg this will take it above maintenance, BCAA has calories too

When dieting I like to up my protein, I think you lowered it. I love my (good) fats, olive oil in all my veg and my rice. Coconut oil in my protein shakes.

No multi vit? No superfood? Add these please.

[Rhino_Jockey]

4oz Chicken Breast 100 23 0 1 0
2serv Waxy Carb Slam 240 0 60 0 0

Your numbers don’t match up and I can’t figure out which macros are intended for your totals. According to your chart, your chicken has 0g fat and 1g carbohydrates?

Please clarify which number is which on your totals.

New Totals 2735 255 208 72 34

[redgladiator]

New Totals 2735 255 208 72 34

Cals protein carbs fats saturates

You can sort of work it out.

EDIT: hmmm maybe it’s not saturates

[Viets]

[quote]Rhino Jockey wrote:

4oz Chicken Breast 100 23 0 1 0
2serv Waxy Carb Slam 240 0 60 0 0

Your numbers don’t match up and I can’t figure out which macros are intended for your totals. According to your chart, your chicken has 0g fat and 1g carbohydrates?

Please clarify which number is which on your totals.

New Totals 2735 255 208 72 34
[/quote]

It may be a tad off b/c I ommitted the cla but forgot to re-total before I posted. I plan on dropping my fish oil/cla for Flameout. The order of my macros is Calories/Protein/Carbs/Fats/Fiber.

[Viets]

[quote]redgladiator wrote:
New Totals 2735 255 208 72 34

Cals protein carbs fats saturates

You can sort of work it out.

EDIT: hmmm maybe it’s not saturates[/quote]

You were close…

[Viets]

[quote]redgladiator wrote:
Viets wrote:
I worked on my new meal plan today. Here’s what I’m thinking. Nothing set in stone, please critique.

1st Meal 6am
(1) Whole Omega Egg 70 6 1 4.5 0
1/2 cup Quick Oats 150 5 23 3 4
1 cup Raspberries 70 2 11 0 5
1 serv ON Whey Protein 120 24 3 1 0
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0

2nd Meal 9am
4oz Chicken Breast 100 23 0 1 0
1/2 cup dry Brown Rice 150 4 31 1 2
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0

3rd Meal Noon
4oz Grass Fed Beef 240 24 0 4.5 0
28g Shredded Cheese 2% 90 7 0 6 0
(1) Low Carb Tortilla 100 7 5 2.5 8
1/4 cup dry Brown Rice 75 2 16 0.5 1
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0

4th Meal 3pm
1 serv ON Casein 110 23 3 0.5 0
1 tbsp Smart Balance PB 100 4 3 7.5 1
1 medium Banana 105 1 24 0.5 3
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0

Pre Training 4pm
Ordering Workout Fuel
Currently taking Vasocharge

Post Training 5pm
2 serv Waxy Carb Slam 240 0 60 0 0
1 serv Xtend BCAA
1 serv Whey Isolate 90 23 0 0 0

Post Meal 6pm
4oz 99% Turkey 120 28 0 1 0
1/4 cup dry Brown Rice 75 2 16 0.5 1
(1) Low Carb Tortilla 100 7 5 2.5 8
28g Shredded Cheese 2% 90 7 0 6 0
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0

Evening Meal 9pm
1 serv ON Casein 110 23 3 0.5 0
(1) Whole Omega Egg 70 6 1 4.5 0
1 tbsp Smart Balance PB 100 4 3 7.5 1
(2) NOW Super Omega 20 0 0 2 0
(3) NOW ZMA

New Totals 2735 255 208 72 34

Maintenance 2800 310 260 60 30

My stoopid Question of the day is, what meals do I stick the vegetables in? All of them? And what Biotest supplements do I insert in place of my current ones and which ones would be beneficial to add in and where?

I’m ordering 11-T, Flameout & Surge Recovery. I have my tub of L-Luecine, what meals do I sprinkle this on?

I try to have fruit or veg with every meal except my night shake. Post workout I might step up the whey a bit. For fat loss consider adding HOT-ROX. I’ve also heard wonderful things about receptormax for fat loss. L-Luecine I’ve tried it all sorts of ways, try just spooning it in your mouth and washing it down, try this way once and you won’t want to do it any other way.

You total cals is only 65 under maintenance. This is too low for any significant fat loss. If you are adding veg this will take it above maintenance, BCAA has calories too

When dieting I like to up my protein, I think you lowered it. I love my (good) fats, olive oil in all my veg and my rice. Coconut oil in my protein shakes.

No multi vit? No superfood? Add these please.[/quote]

I have Optimum Nutrition’s Opti Men but didn’t list it b/c it had no nutritional numbers. I wanted to concentrate on items with caloric value so you could advise what I need to change with whole foods. I realized all those supplements were clogging up the space, I just wanted to make it easier to read. I will place an order for the Superfood asap. HOT-ROX and Receptormax are also on the list. And I will add more fruit, that’s never a problem. It’s the damn vegetables that kill me. I used your tip on the L-Luecine at lunch and you are right, I’ll never go back. I’ll add another scoop of Nectar whey post workout. I think that covered it all…one last thing;

I am confused about your comment of my cal’s being too low for fat loss? You really want me to ADD more? It’s not a problem, I can, I just thought you’re supposed to be below or right at maintenance. Am I wrong there? I thought I had enough good fats but I can add more, no problem there.

You guys are really helping me out a ton. Talking to like minded indviduals and learning new stuff is why I posted in the first place. I really appreciate all you guys BIG TIME. When I’m 200lbs and ripped I’m flying you all out to Columbus during the Arnold and I’ll treat you to a good time. It’s truly a freak fest, the entire weekend. I thought Buckeye tailgaiting was crazy, but that event is BANANAS…scantally clad smokin’ hot females stacked one on top of another. Oh, and free supplements. LOL

[redgladiator]

[quote]Viets wrote:

New Totals 2735 255 208 72 34

Maintenance 2800 310 260 60 30

I am confused about your comment of my cal’s being too low for fat loss? You really want me to ADD more? It’s not a problem, I can, I just thought you’re supposed to be below or right at maintenance. Am I wrong there? I thought I had enough good fats but I can add more, no problem there.

[/quote]
Sorry my wording is a little off.
You are dieting, reduce your cals further. I try to randomise this day to day to prevent your body adapting.

You are dropping your protein, I like to up protein to protect against muscle loss.
Your fats are ok, but I would prefer olive oil + coconut oil to peanut butter. (extra virgin)

[Viets]

[quote]redgladiator wrote:
Viets wrote:

New Totals 2735 255 208 72 34

Maintenance 2800 310 260 60 30

I am confused about your comment of my cal’s being too low for fat loss? You really want me to ADD more? It’s not a problem, I can, I just thought you’re supposed to be below or right at maintenance. Am I wrong there? I thought I had enough good fats but I can add more, no problem there.

Sorry my wording is a little off.
You are dieting, reduce your cals further. I try to randomise this day to day to prevent your body adapting.

You are dropping your protein, I like to up protein to protect against muscle loss.
Your fats are ok, but I would prefer olive oil + coconut oil to peanut butter. (extra virgin)
[/quote]

got it, I will make the change with the fats. with the cal’s, is 500 below a good start? on tues/thur which are off days it’s around 2300 so that would give me every other day fluctuating cals from maintenance to 500 below to keep my body from adapting…is that enough?