I understand all that. I don’t speak from a place of ignorance to all of the complexities of children and child services. I’m mental health. I was at the meetings when I worked with kids.
Support what? The circus? But let’s talk about the government. If my child runs away, should I call the cops? Meaning, it’s not about the government supporting a child running away, but the parents supporting it. I really think you never have a point.
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Kids do it all the time with no one caring. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on the situation.
I did it, too. Walked away with no one trying to find me.
Eventually the good ones wind up in therapy and do just fine.
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I wasn’t arguing with you, just adding to what you said.
Ah, the violent agreement. Thank you, lol.
If you don’t call the cops and something bad happened, would the cops arrest you for not calling?
These days, I’d think, YES.
Ridiculous. You sure didn’t think that through before commenting, I hope.
“an alarming estimate that 37.4% of all children experience a child protective services investigation by age 18 years.”
This is vague. A student can be interviewed regarding a teacher, for example, or another student. The student is part of an investigation but not under investigation.
“27.7 million children investigated based upon the current U.S. population census of approximately 75 million children under age 18 https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2016.303545 or 49 million parents being investigated”
The problem with this assumption, regarding numbers of parents, is that it probably factors in that every child has two parents. Also, it assumes that if a child is part of an investigation that it automatically means the parents are being investigated. If a child is molested by a doctor, teacher, babysitter, etc., the child will obviously be part of the investigation, as will the parents, but that doesn’t mean the parents are under investigation.
“Furthermore, 61% of the placements were considered neglect, which is based purely on social worker discretion, which basically translates to the freedom to do whatever the caseworker wants. What they see as “neglect” is often just what poverty looks like”
This is false. A social worker can believe something is neglect, incorrectly or correctly, but they don’t have the freedom to do what they want. This is a legal issue and it’s up to the court.
“Instead of getting help to parent, the parents get their children taken.”
This is false. If people knew how much assistance is given to families in the form of cash they would be shocked. The state provides mental health care and therapy for parents and children. They can get money for clothes and clothes, even new beds. This is in addition to foodstamps and welfare.
“The most recent estimates are that foster care in America is a $1,000+ billion per year industry.”
Yet, there is a shortage of foster homes.
“even nursing newborns — are taken without evidence, warrants, or the ability of parents to face and challenge the accuser in court.”
This is untrue. Parents are provided an attorney if they cannot afford one. Children will have their own attorney provided to them.
" Instead, the government hides behind closed doors, conducting their court proceedings in secret / private hearings across America"
Because it’s family court. Ask some of the parents if they want their business put out there for the world to see. Some of these kids are sexually abused, shouldn’t they be entitled to some privacy?
While it may seem like Child Protective Services (CPS) has total control over what happens to your family, it’s important to know which actions they can and cannot legally take. Here’s what you should know:
What CPS Can and Cannot Do:
What CPS Can Legally Do
CPS has the right to do the following:
- Investigate reports, even if they are false.
- Mandated reporters must report any suspected child abuse. If they don’t, they can be held legally responsible for neglecting to share what they know. Mandated reporters include:
- Doctors
- Lawyers
- Therapists
- CPS must investigate every substantial report. However, not all reports are substantial or significant enough to warrant investigation.
- Mandated reporters must report any suspected child abuse. If they don’t, they can be held legally responsible for neglecting to share what they know. Mandated reporters include:
- Connect you with valuable resources.
- The agency does a good job of connecting families with resources that can benefit them. In some instances, they may even have the ability to provide financial help.
- Meet with your child without your permission.
- This may be concerning, but it’s true. CPS workers are entitled to meet with your kids without receiving your permission and without you present. It’s common for CPS to speak with your child before speaking to you. This is done so that guilty parents don’t have the opportunity to coach or threaten their kids into providing certain answers.
- Demand that you follow a plan.
- CPS may demand that you follow a safety or service plan. These aren’t typically court-ordered, which means they cannot truly be enforced. But if you choose not to follow the plan, CPS can tell the court that you are uncooperative.
- Anything you say can be used against you.
- Be careful what you say to CPS because they can and will use any information you provide against you.
- Remove your children from the home.
- CPS has the right to legally remove your kids from your home under particular circumstances. They must have a court order or be able to prove that your child is in imminent danger in order to take your child from you. Imminent danger includes things like:
- Physical harm
- Sexual conduct
- Neglect
- Firearms left out in the open
- CPS has the right to legally remove your kids from your home under particular circumstances. They must have a court order or be able to prove that your child is in imminent danger in order to take your child from you. Imminent danger includes things like:
- Terminate your parental rights.
- It is a lengthy and complex process, but it’s possible.
What CPS Cannot Legally Do
CPS does not have the right to do the following:
- Force their way into your home.
- To legally enter your home, CPS needs a court order or the belief that your child is in imminent danger.
- Provide you with a drug test without your consent.
- CPS must have a court order to force you into taking a drug test.
In some cases children may be removed from home during an investigation. CPS can only remove children from home if they have permission from a judge. When CPS removes children, it often places them temporarily with the other parent or in foster care. Foster care could be with relatives. The police can remove a child from home without an order from a judge. Hospitals can refuse to let a child go home with their parents if a doctor believes they would be in danger. The hospital does not need a court order to do this, but the power is temporary and short term.
The cops and hospitals have more power to act than social workers.
I’ve observed these scenarios. I would imagine Texas is a little more family friendly vs government than Minnesota, however, I remember a number of issues as a CASA advocate where it felt absolutely ludicrous any advocation even needed to be done. Without it, there would’ve been systemically supported tragedies, on a regular basis.
It was eye opening and really kind of scary how easily cases could escalate. The attitude of “oh well, maybe govt investigates and then it’s fine” is bullshit too. Once a family is on the radar the investigation is looking for a reason to remove vs objectively eliminating given a lack of evidence.
“Are you hiding any Jews?”
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Any examples?
Of course.
But as i said earlier, the existing laws allow children to be taken from good parents. As i said, my opinion is that the worst miscarriage of justice is laws punishing the innocent.
I’m never on the side of giving the govt more power, because they always fuck it up and never give it back.
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4car
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So we can agree on some things.
I completely agree however, in reality, all laws have that potential. Innocent men have been executed, for example. The current system in place to protect children may not be perfect but I think a lot of the criticism is exaggeration, based on outliers or based on not having the whole story. We’ve seen this with police shootings and hate crime hoaxes. Every criminal claims they are innocent.
I’m genuinely saddened to hear that but one incident does not indicate pervasiveness.
Sure. I’ll share one, but there are many. I’m not going to share case numbers or identifiable information so take it as you want.
TL:DR a kid had some bruising, and was also incredibly shy. Very young.
The family doctor assumed the shyness was “withdrawing” and in tandem with bruising feared abuse and set off an investigation.
It was whole thing. Lots of stupid shit wound up being considered as evidence over a lengthy amount of time and there was obviously a high level of tension plus temporary separation.
As the kid aged and testing became available it turned out he was autistic. Not withdrawn.
And kids get bruises.
The whole ordeal was sick. An autistic kid in formative years had chaos instead of consistency. I’ll let you research what that means for autism.
This is one example of over eager “do gooders” meaning well and opening a Pandora’s box. And it’s fucked up.
Before we argue in circles, I’ve already stated in cases of legit abuse I agree intervention makes sense, but would need to see irrefutable proof first and would default to family vs govt without. And I know you feel differently. And you can do you.
And fwiw, I’ve seen extremely sad cases of abuse through B.A.C.A. I’m aware it exists. And I like the role I get to play there. Curious minds can read controversies and court cases, plus official B.A.C.A. statements in response and connect the dots.
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