[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Wait, how is this any different with an atheist? Do muslims view the atheist as the impartial referees of the world? I really don’t think so. He, the muslim, is probably thinking “of course this Godless heathen thinks I practice Islam incorrectly (or correctly…), he thinks I’m wrong headed for even practicing a religion, period!” So, no, this just can’t be a factor.
I get what you are saying, actually to a Muslim an atheist is damned whereas a Christian is at least of the book. I just think that the whole arguemnt needs to be about the actions, not the religious basis or lack thereof.
To the Muslims a nonbeliever is worse than anyone else. You are worse than an idolater even. The bad thing about your being so clueless is I know there are a lot more just like you back in the UK.
The really bad thing is some of them are in positions of power and the think that they can use and control the passions of the Muslims in order to pursue their own agenda. They are playing with fire and they don’t have a clue.
The argument about actions needs to be based upon the ideology of the religion that is causing it.
If you attack them from a secular basis, pointing out how their policies are negatively affecting their people, then the moderates are more likely to agree with you.
What moderates? Islam is not a religion of moderation. One of the main tenets of Islam is that Muslims are to be fanatically religious. Fanatical people do fanatical things. Negative consequences mean little to them because to them there is a bigger picture of going to paradise.
And when they say, “oh, but we must do this or that as a religious observance!.” Conversation over? Nope.
In which case we are fucked either way! My point is that if you get two football fans in a bar, if they are fans of different teams, they will end up arguing about football. You put a football fan in a bar with someone who doesn’t follow football, they won’t argue about football.
Religion is not football. But to use your ridiculous analogy when you put a footballer in a bar with a soccer player they may able to find common ground and get along. But put a rugger with the footballer soccer player in a bar, the rugger is liable to say that rugby is for men while they are a bunch of poofters! And they are probably not going to want to disagree with him.
My point is you think that somehow atheism is neutral ground. So by default Muslims are more likely to listen to you than Christians. You are deluding yourself.
So, basically, you think atheists ared welcomed by the Islamic world in making observations about how the Islamic world needs to be secularized? An atheist, preaching secularization? You don’t think the secularism preaching atheist would be looked at with the same amount of hatred? Or, that he wouldn’t be suspected of harboring his own prejudices? You’re not even one of the people of the book! Run!
I think the atheist is more able to discuss the real route cause of the issues with the Muslim than the Chistian. It makes any ‘My view of God is greater than yours’ argument obsolete so you can get past those and talk about Oil, Food, Water, divisions on maps, trade etc.
Here you prove what I am saying. You really do think that you are better equipped to be able to understand Muslims than a Christian is. Despite the fact that you have less in common with either one than they have with each other.
You show your delusional arrogance. As a non believer you are much more likely to be considered as the voice of Satan trying to mislead the faithful than anything else.
You have repeatedly said that religious scripture is fairy tales, that people are stupid to believe. Yet unlike you, a Christian can understand why a Muslim would take their religious scripture seriously and follow it. If you weren’t so arrogant you would understand that.
Back to the original post, the report definitely could have been grabbed straight from the Onion.
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Ok so your solution is let one group of deluded irrational fantasy believers talk to the other. I can see your point but am worried that between them they would just come up with more random fantasy.
