Coronavirus - What Happened?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
6909

That’s your opinion. I see important distinctions. The examples you bring up are long-proven, easily-agreed-upon measures to mitigate future harm on the basis of a person’s previously harmful behavior that results directly from their actions.

I think our disagreement centers around the potential for passive harm. By your logic, nearly all that we do can be interpreted as potentially harmful for others, given enough “what if?” mental gymnastics. Therein lies the risk with this line of thought. Where does the line get drawn for what’s harmful? I’m not sure, but I’m not getting on board with the government mandating medical treatments for the level of threat presented by COVID.

Are you on board with that? It seems like an easy question to answer…

I do believe that these measures are deliberately calculated to create a two-tier society and blame-group, which has been the modus operandi of Democrats more often than it has not been, for all of their history. Blaming other people is what people who suck at their responsibilities tend to do. I can’t fathom any line of reasoning where the ill effects of even attempting a policy like this will be out-weighed by any improved public health outcomes as measured by an epidemiologist.

I disagree. I believe it is highly pertinent. The Democrats have a very long list of failed policies for people like us to consider, and you can’t consider those policies in a vacuum. They occupy a historical arc that coincides with a lot of bad outcomes shrouded in ostensibly well-intentioned policies. This is a pattern that remains relevant, in my opinion. I don’t believe that the Democrats are secret racists trying to re-create their pre-64 anti-black policies. I do believe that they’re the same party of garbage policies with garbage outcomes that eventually backfire spectacularly. The blame group du jour is just the most politically convenient for them, as it always has been.

I’m still all ears if anyone wants to make the case for why any Democrat, anywhere, deserves my vote in 2021.

6910

My point was that novel, deadly viruses simply do not have effective vaccines that counteract said virus, developed so quickly. I remember at the beginning of Covid, a poster @Aragorn linked something that showed Covid was related to some existing virus. Hence the quick development of a vaccine for Covid, because scientists are dealing with something that is not 100% new.

HIV started in the 1980s, and started out as 100% deadly. There’s still no vaccine, but there is treatment. HIV is my example of an actual deadly virus.

Also my point is that we should hail (sarcasm) every new variant, rather than recoil in renewed shock & horror, because every new, more infectious variant means we are closer to the end goal of herd immunity. (as evidenced by all the vaccinated pro athletes testing positive now) Instead, all we hear is, more shots!

6911

Joe Manchin just saved the US from the Bernie Sanders/AOC hostile takeover.

1 Like
6912

Call me when he gets on board with legalizing machine guns.

6913

Hey, now.

Plus it was hysterical to me how Bernie/AOC et al railed and tossed out malarkey like they actually knew what the people of West Virginia wanted. Hubris, unparalleled.

6914

I failed to address this in my earlier post.

Let’s accept this as a given and assume that all of the capital R Racists in the South now vote Republican. I suppose if I put myself in their shoes, I could definitely feel betrayed when the only party to ever promote my policy priorities moved on to other priorities. I could also understand that perhaps even racists have policy priorities that take precedence over their unrealistic racist policy wishes.

Why should I, as a likely Republican voter in the next election, find it concerning that anyone, anywhere votes Republican?

More specifically, which Republican policy should I find most concerning, if my concern is southern racist policy priorities manifesting through the Republican party?

Even more specifically, how should this voting bloc shape my thoughts on Federal, State and Local COVID policy?

6915

Tangentially relevant? -a man with impeccable scientific credentials meets Wuhan:

6916

Here is the problem with cherry picking rates:

A COVID-19 hospitalization is a Washington resident who has been identified using case investigation
data in WDRS or links with Rapid Health Information Network (RHINO) records as hospitalized with
confirmed or probable COVID-19.
Deaths are reported to the state by health care providers, medical examiners or coroners, local health
departments, or others to the official vital records database, WHALES. COVID-19 deaths included in this
report are identified in WHALES where the cause of death was confirmed or suspected to have been
COVID-19.
Fully vaccinated versus breakthrough cases:
• For reporting purposes, DOH and CDC use strict criteria to classify breakthrough cases, including
requiring information about the vaccine lot number and other details. The SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine
Breakthrough Surveillance and Case Information Resource (wa.gov) report has information
about cases that meet the breakthrough case definition. The report is updated every
Wednesday.
17
• Because the purpose of this report is to provide a more comprehensive look at the impact of
vaccines on COVID-19, it therefore uses a broader definition of ‘fully vaccinated’ rather than
‘breakthrough case’ to classify individuals. For this report, the determination of whether a
person is fully vaccinated is based exclusively on data from the Washington Immunization
Information System (WA IIS).

This is from the pdf. I hope you are able to see how the methodology can be manipulated.

Now lets calculate total deaths. Using these stats.

Since I already found for UK and I broadly remember how many there were I can picture it for you.
Total unvaccinated deaths for Jan - Sept 2021 were 90k.
Total Covid death for unvaccinated for Jan - Sept 2021 - were 32k - almost 1/3rd of of unvacced deaths were Covid, which is huge.

But:
Total vaccinated deaths over 240k
Total vaccinated deaths from Covid under 10k.

So I immediately ask what the vaccinated die from? Could it be a flaw in the following methodology used in US from the pdf:

Deaths are reported to the state by health care providers, medical examiners or coroners, local health
departments, or others to the official vital records database, WHALES. COVID-19 deaths included in this
report are identified in WHALES where the cause of death was confirmed or suspected to have been
COVID-19
For this report, the determination of whether a
person is fully vaccinated is based exclusively on data from the Washington Immunization
Information System (WA IIS)

Perhaps in UK they use the same flawed system? Here is the flaw. Vaccinated person goes to a hospital. Does not get tested. Dies and is not confirmed or suspected of being a covid death. Unvaccinated person goes to a hospital, immediately gets tested and is covid positive, dies and he goes to the statistics as a covid death.

I am not even getting into “conspiracy theories” here, where numerous US hospitals were exposed as reporting fully vaccinated people as unvaccinated, because they have passed 6 months since the vaccination.

6917

Using left wing tactics. You remember the sexist, mysgonist, rape apologists, racist and etc? I think it is time to name people how they should be named. If you even come to some defense to child molesters - pedo; if you have anything close to 2 tier system - comi; if you are for excluding people from the society - facists.

Most people have not experience being excluded from the society. I have although I was just a 3-4 years old. I have pretty bad memories. My family was forced out of their home and we ended in up refugee camp. It was a school. I was sleeping on a student desk, all children were sleeping on student desks, so there was enough space on the floor in class rooms for adults to sleep at. We were stuffed about 20 people per class room. I was showered once per week from a water tank in a military truck in front of all other children and moms who were waiting to shower their children. We had 3 minutes per child to shower. There are some positive memories though, military personal in the camp were nice and bought is a soccer ball and played with us.

You know fun memories afterwards as well… like a judge asking you how your mother is named and what you call her… obviously “Mommy” and the court laughing. Children asking you in kinder garden what is your name and you not being able to say. Even in 1st grade I was presented with 1 name and then was changed to a 2nd name and all the other children watching me burst into tears, because of their shock.

But anyway, not many people know what is to lose rights even as a child and be threated as a second class citizen. Not many people here know what a real racism is. It is to lose your name, you citizen status and be expelled from the society. Stuff you know your guy here has experienced and is against and some people here advocate for.

1 Like
6918

That’s a pretty horrible experience and I can see why that leaves a lasting impression and why you would be against certain types of politics. I hope you’ve got some good support around you.

I don’t see anyone advocating for that type of treatment here. They may not be where you are ideologically but that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be against those oppressors.

6919

Thrust me it does not work like this. When governments get power they do not let go easily. And people do not lift their fingers. People here still deny and get angry when you tell them about this dark period. All the government had to do was to find a common enemy (unvaccinated) and people would unite against them and let governments do whatever they want and wont lift a finger even if they are send to gas chambers. I am glad I was not a victim of gas chambers or gulags, but a lesser evil.

So while people do not advocate for this type of threatement, we are exactly on the path that leads there. And when we are there people will not lift their fingers, instead they will be happy about it. Just look at Australia and New York. You know New York the place with the statue of liberty. You dont say people wont advocate for this crazy stuff. I dont see Americans lining up in a front line liberating New York of Nazism.

2 Likes
6920

You can expose anybody to this “deadly” virus vaxed or unvaxed. The shot does not prevent catching and spreading, so your not doing anybody any favors. Second, if you are vaxed, then what the hell are you worried about? Who are you worried about getting it from and giving it too? Hence, why does it matter what other people do, if you are vaxed and everybody that is actually vulnerable around you is vaxed too? There is a distinct lack of logic in your thinking. You sound very much like the runt of the bleating sheep.

lol… yeah, like I am going to listen to you. I won’t hold off. What are you going to do about it?
Threatening people’s jobs and livelihoods and participation in society is also coercion. Maybe if you spent more time worrying about yourself and looking in the mirror, perhaps you wouldn’t be so worried about other people. You seem to be very weak minded and unable to think for yourself, so you got some work to do.

6921

I am not. I am saying, despite all these draconian rules, they have the highest rates so those rules don’t work. Instead of reflecting on the fact that they don’t work, they double down. And you know who is most affected? The black population of NYC because they are the least vaxed demographic. So think about this for a second. If you are excluding the unvaxed from working and participating in society and the highest population of unvaxed people in society are the black population, what does that look like? Segregation? Of course it does and it is.
So who do you support more, people’s right to participate in society and be able to work, or draconian vax and mask mandates that do not work and are excluding the black population and the most vulnerable? NYC made it so you have to choose one, which do you pick? I know what side I am on.

And those recovered from covid. And especially those who are vaxed and have already had covid. Science does not back vaccine over natural immunity. These bureaucrats are chasing a manufactured number. Natural immunity is better than vaccines in the majority of cases. And both is vastly superior to either alone as far as protection goes.
The very least, the covid recovered can be selected in exemption to these idiotic mandates. But they won’t because it’s not about health it’s about power. Always has been and always will be. That’s why they will hang on to covid as long as they possibly can. Until the population finally tells them to stick it in their ass. I am beyond that point.

6922

lol… My tolerance is like .24. It’s almost impossible for me to get drunk.

6923

Back in my “weekend warrior” days I too had an absolutely ridiculous tolerance to booze.

I imagine if I were to start drinking regularly again my tolerance would quickly sky-rocket.

6924

Possibly, my tolerance is genetic. Which actually sucks, I’d much rather have the low tolerance and be able to enjoy it more when I drink. I cannot possibly, enjoyably, consume the amount of alcohol it takes to get me drunk. I don’t care to drink like a frat boy. I like to taste it and enjoy it.

Let’s see… Um, they are reimagining policing and its working terrific. Arrests are way down. I mean yeah, sure crime is WAY, WAY, up, but arrests are down. Yeah I got nothing. They have failed in every possible measure in less than a year.

How long can he hold out? He really should make good on his threat to move to Independent. Then the DNC cannot bother him internally.

Yeah, they used a very clever tactic. They called him a racist…

Let’s not. There is plenty to criticize republicans for… Especially for doing nothing, but racism actual, real divide people by the color of their skin racism is and has always been a democrat party principle. All they do now, is to try to change the meaning of words to hide their deeds, but who is separating school children by race and teaching them to fear kids another color? It’s not republicans. Who is segregating dorms in universities? It’s not republicans. Who is segregating NYC by race? That’s damn sure not republicans. They are trying to prevent the ‘unvaxed’ from participating in society. They largest demgraphic that happens to be unvaxed in NYC are black people. Does it matter what you call it? The great satan for democrats are the unvaxed and by that metric, black people are under vaxed in proportion, so who are they hurting really? They are trying to tell you they are hurting ‘ignorant Trump voters’ but they are happy to accept the collateral damage of excluding black people from society. By all means criticize republicans, but you cannot use them as the poster boys of racism, not even in hypotheticals, when it’s democrats who are constantly dividing people based on skin color. Don’t look at the words, look at the actions and it’s obvious.
Here’s the NY data:

So Asians and Blacks are effectively excised from society by the vax mandates democrats have instituted. Think about that, when these same people call someone else racist.

If you need therapy to be a part of a political party, the problem isn’t the individual.

I don’t have to trust you (or thrust you) this is evident. All one has to do is look.

6925

Do you really think the true believers will ever get sick of hearing about it? I bet we have people posting in this thread who are fully vaccinated, otherwise healthy, and still wearing a mask while driving down deserted roads alone with all windows up.

6926

It does not require everyone, just the majority. Lone mask wearing drivers with needles sticking out of them everywhere are already rare and no, no amount of evidence will convince those type of people. It’s a cult, a devotion. They killed God and replaced it with wokeness, critical theory and climate change. And the devotion to those faiths is intense. And it totally followed the pattern Nietzsche said it would… Which has forced me to reconsider him as an intellectual force. Still not a philosopher, though.

6927

We are now at get 3-4 shots and maybe boosters so, that hospitals are possibly not over capacity. (Which has been proven to be BS)

Was that not the reason for 2 weeks to flatten the curve? Do people still think this is ok?

6928

It was the stated reason, indeed. Of course, only the lowest of IQs believed that.