Yeah, some countries didn’t even regard deaths due to heart related ailments as deaths from covid so this isn’t really common knowledge. I only realized this and looked it up when my country started scaring the public into vaccinations by releasing data on the underlying conditions unvaccinated people who died had. ALL of them had a history of either heart disease or hypertension.
The thing is while there is a certain amount of risk from getting vaccinated, at this present moment the risk of developing more serious ailments exceed them by several times if one is unvaccinated. Given the transmissibility of delta, most people, vaccinated or not, are going to catch it at some point in their lives unless a better version of the current vaccines is developed.
Lots of people I know here aren’t even anti-vaxxers. They are waiting for Covaxx to be available here because it’s not an mRNA vaccine and they don’t trust the China ones nor Astra Zeneca because of the previously reported blood clotting. That’s understandable.
I’m fine with dividing you people out. Hopefully covid doesnt do that the hard way.
If you’re ignorant, uniformed opinions and actions didn’t affect me and my loved ones i wouldn’t care. But unfortunately, they do. And saying “its their fault, they have comorbities” to absolve your irresponsible actions of any blame is BS.
To be perfectly honest, and I hope this doesn’t deter people from getting vaccinated, based on data from countries that experienced the surge in delta much earlier than the US, I’m not very confident of the efficacy of the current vaccines when it comes to transmitting and catching it. I’m not sure that data from the US CDC is accurate.
I mean, they do work in this aspect, but not as well as previously thought. Given the transmissibility of delta, even if it’s purportedly a milder strain, the sheer numbers of infected people would still lead to an increase in hospitalizations without the existence of vaccines.
The reason why I’m stating this is so it isn’t used as fodder for the real anti-vaxxers. We’ve seen cases drop substantially from lockdowns and increased vaccination rates for earlier strains. It’s having having a minimal effect on delta. Imagine how many there would be if delta emerged earlier.
Fucking lockdowns can’t even contain it and countries like Malaysia are experiencing their biggest waves since the start of the pandemic despite their lockdowns, prompting their dumb as fuck government to finally decide to start a massive vaccination drive because there’s no way they can get cases lower to open up again. We will see probably similar patterns in New Zealand and Australia while China is full of shit.
Vaccines DO WORK to prevent severe disease and death. Less symptomatic cases also contribute to lowering potential transmissibility for fucking obvious reasons. Even before the pandemic, people in certain parts of Asia didn’t wear masks when they had flu symptoms to AVOID CATCHING THE FLU. Constant exposure to symptomatic cases means even DOCTORS FUCKING DIE, especially in countries where they relied on Sinovac to inoculate their frontline staff.
Healthcare systems around the world have already long been prepared for even “self-inflicted” ailments from stuff like obesity and lifestyle factors. They aren’t prepared for surges in severe covid cases.
People get too hung up on how effective these things are if they aren’t near 100% effective. If a vaccine is 50% effective, that’s a HUGE benefit compared to no vaccine. Same thing goes for masks, good hygiene, social distancing, etc.
As has been said all along, we are trying to prevent the healthcare system being overtaxed by a covid surge and allowing people with treatable issues to die unnecessarily. So, simply delaying or spreading out the covid cases is a big deal. Shooting for zero cases like AUS is a pipedream unless they stay completely closed to the world for years.
I also think people are getting hung up on the effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing spread. The vaccine is probably not super effective in preventing spread, although it probably has some effect.
On the other hand, it does reduce the risk of death and serious illness by 97%+. That doesn’t appear to be changing with delta. Lots of vaccinated people are getting mildly sick, but the ones filling hospitals and dying are basically all unvaccinated. (This is talking about the US where around 70% of adults are vaccinated with mRNA vaccines. Data in other countries with other vaccines and vaccination rates may vary).
That seems like a great reason to get the vaccine. Forget about herd immunity. Get vaccinated and people still may die, but it probably won’t be you. What is so complicated about that?
I am having a soccer season, so I am not risking preparation for bad vaccines with side effects that can put me out for months. The fucking vaccine does not even prevent me spreading Covid. So let me trust my immune system to deal with it, while science comes with something better?
Well considering your first statement is ignoring science and the risk of side effects from the vaccine is crazy low compared to catching Covid and having effects I don’t have much hope.
If you don’t give a shit about science now because you don’t trust it you won’t trust it in the future either. The number of people who will miss soccer practices and games from Covid is going to dwarf any who miss it from side effects of the vaccine.
I absolutely support everyone making their own decision. That’s basically the point I’m making. The overwhelming science in support of getting the vaccine is that it gives significant benefits to the person who receives the vaccine.
The evidence that you getting vaccinated helps me is fairly wishy washy. For your own benefit, I would recommend you get the vaccine. But from a public health standpoint, the benefit to me from you getting the vaccine is fairly marginal. That’s why I don’t support any sort of vaccine mandate. Even more so for mask mandates, where the evidence for any benefit to anyone is wishy washy (at best).
It’s similar to eating a healthy diet. The evidence is pretty strong that it is good for your health to eat a healthy diet. But I’m not going to support a law that forces you to do it. It’s your choice as long as you are willing to deal with the consequences.
The issue though is it’s not just one person dealing with the consequences. If the ICU’s are all full because people don’t want to get vax, don’t want to mask, don’t want to distance then it doesn’t simply have a consequence for that one person. If it did I would be far less in favor of encouraging people to do the right thing.
Eating a healthy diet doesn’t quite work as an example during a pandemic that has infected well over 200 million people. My shitty diet can’t kill you. But Covid coming from me can. And if all my infected brethren are in the hospital and you can’t be treated then I may still indirectly be responsible for your death.
That’s is not true though. Close to 80% of those hospitalized are overweight/obese. When you add in other underlying issues caused by bad lifestyle/diet choices what do you think that number would be? How many people in the ICU look like me?
It is shitty diets/life style choices that caused the majority of hospitalizations. Lack of ICU beds would not be the issue it is.
The government has known about these comorbidities but, has not mandated anything in regard to exercise, diet, or supplementation. Why? Because of personal freedom. But, somehow choosing to not get vaccinated did not make the cut.
My point was you can’t compare piss poor diet to Covid. They aren’t similar in any way, don’t “spread,” etc. If I start eating like shit it’s unlikely that I’m going to overwhelm the ICU units right? But if I give Covid to 100 people who give it to a 1,000 etc we’re talking something different.
This is irrelevant to the situation. Oh shit you’re telling me close to 80% are overweight and obese? Who cares? That’s the fucking US population.
I’m not anti health for fucks sake I’ve been on t-nation since like 2000. But “oh wouldn’t it be better if people were healthier” is irrelevant if during the pandemic they aren’t. Should we discuss how much better things would be if most of us had abs vs huge guts? I mean we can but abs are far more rare than huge guts here. I’d rather discuss and make decisions based on how things are and not fairy tale US population is all lifting and eating clean.
Covid caused the hospitalizations. Shitty diets/life style don’t help and may have lowered some. But it’s not something that is effecting only the unhealthy. Of course the unhealthy are going to struggle more but that’s no different than pretty much anything else out there. What health issue can the doctor tell you you have today and he says “the good thing is you’re fat and out of shape”?
Keep in mind my response was you can’t really compare the two, not that they she no bearing on each other.
It would be in Australia… our hospitals can barely cope without covid. Federal and State premiers are doing nothing about it and have done nothing about it for the past 18 months because they laughably thought
a: they could keep covid out forever
b: it’s easier to put people under house arrest
