The thing is that most people who die from COVID would likely die from the flu as well. As I mentioned, at the nursing home where I work we had a flu outbreak a few years ago and 10 people died. Now we had a COVID outbreak and 10 people died.
I believe in statistics and maybe we are looking at different sources but this paints a different picture(bottom). Youāre also viewing the virus and have the whole time only in the sense of death which doesnāt make any sense unless youāre saying you are unlikely to die unless you meet these qualifications. But we donāt know long term impacts, weāve seen big health issues with younger people who have survived, and weāve seen huge hospitalizations from younger people. In America you may survive Covid and have over 50,000 dollars worth of medical bills. To me saying not even something to worry about is pretty cavalier. Not to mention in a pandemic with a highly contagious component it can encourage people to treat its prevention as far less serious.
Lol this has already been completely debunked.
The statistics in that article donāt prove anything because it give a percentage of COVID deaths, not the odds of dying for each age group. Younger people are more likely to get infected because the elderly have trouble getting around, and many donāt go out at all.
Youāre concerned about the long term effects of the virus, but then what about the long term effects of having your surgery indefinitely postponed, your cancer treatment cancelled, losing your job or business, etc? And what about the issues with food supply chains that now have hundreds of millions more people on the brink of starvation?
Iām not really trying to argue for one solution vs. another, the point is that you have to take the other effects of the shutdowns/restrictions into consideration. Having long term complications from COVID isnāt good, but neither is ending up homeless or starving to death and that is what a lot of people are facing in the near future.
Where has this been debunked? Last I heard, hundreds of thousands of people die from the flu every year. The difference with COVID is that it spreads much more easily, but both can potentially kill people. One is not better than the other.
What your article said:
While coronavirus is obviously concerning and a very real threat to some people (namely, the elderly and immunocompromised), these data also show that the risk for the rest of the population is quite low.
Iām not saying everything else isnāt worth considering my issue was with your statement for the rest of us itās not something to worry about. Which is incredibly dismissive of the impacts that not doing things in our power to stop the spread can have. Probably a huge part of the reason we have so many issues in America still is the ānot something I need to worry about mindset.ā
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Why would corona increase suicides. I know some people in the medical field have committed suicide because of all of the death they saw but outside of that?
Where are they getting those numbers?
From the CDC:
Symptomatic Case Fatality Ratio:
50-64: 0.002
65+: 0.013
Current Best Estimate Overall: 0.004%
Symptomatic Case Hospitalization Ratio:
0ā49: 0.017
Overall: 0.034%
Where are these huge number of hospitalizations/medical bills of young people?
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My link was sourced through the CDC.
Itās not just young people. Anyone who is hospitalized for a lengthy amount of time with this could be facing huge bills.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/06/14/nyregion/coronavirus-billing-nyc.amp.html
That plus all the people who should be worried but arenāt doing anything about it.
As for it being worse than the flu, itās debatable. There are varying estimates of how many people really were infected due to the high rate of asymptomatic cases, and there is also no data that I have seen yet showing the rate of asymptomatic flu cases. The total number of deaths could end up being higher, but mostly because it spreads more easily rather than it killing a significantly higher percentage of people. Iām not one of those idiots who think this is the flu under another name, Iām just trying to be realistic about it.
Depression caused by loss of home, job, business, being isolated from other people, outlook for the future seeming hopeless. Apparently a lot of people are having psychological issues from the situation. Also heavy drinking and drug use has increased, over here itās not unusual to see 50+ people lined up outside a liquor store.
Not by intelligent people.
Why donāt you provide evidence to the contrary instead of just talking shit? What is the annual flu death rate vs. COVID? What percentage of flu infections are asymptomatic? When was the last time someone without flu symptoms was even tested for the flu? Both viruses are bad, both kill people, only one has people going crazy though.
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Influenza spreads around the world in yearly outbreaks, resulting in about three to five million cases of severe illness and about 290,000 to 650,000 deaths.
Global covid cases: 11,304,534
Deaths: 531,659
Recovered: 6,111,195
https://www.bing.com/search?q=covid+deaths&cvid=2604fb42f1e1429cb9167d44b1b911a6&FORM=ANAB01&PC=U531
So about 2-3x more cases and a similar number of deaths. That is worse in your opinion?
I already did. Iām going to guess you didnāt read it. Hereās another piece. (Bottom). If we want to talk about what to do about things and why or how thatās one conversation. But it seems long past established that this isnāt like the flu.
They said that public officials continually draw comparisons between the 2 infections, āoften in an attempt to minimize the effects of the unfolding pandemic.ā
The number of deaths from COVID-19 was estimated in early May to be approximately 65,000, which the authors agreed appeared similar to the estimated number of seasonal influenza deaths reported every year by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
However, that represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the way the CDC reports seasonal influenza morbidity and mortality.
From 2013-14 to 2018-19, the CDC reported yearly estimates of influenza deaths ranging from 23,000-61,000. However, the number of counted influenza deaths during those 2 seasons was 3448 and 15,620, respectively.
It would be more accurate to compare weekly counts of COVID-19 deaths to weekly counts of seasonal influenza deaths, the authors said, due to COVID-19 fatalities being counted and reported directly instead of estimated.
By the numbers, according to the paper:
- There were 15,455 COVID-19 deaths reported in the US during the week ending April 21, 2020.
- There were 14,478 COVID-19 deaths reported in the US during the week prior.
- There were 351 flu deaths during the peak week (week 11 of 2016) of the flu season in 2015-16.
- There were 1626 flu deaths during the peak week (week 3 of 2018) of the flu season in 2018-19.
āThese statistics on counted deaths suggest that the number of COVID-19 deaths for the week ending April 21 was 9.5-fold to 44.1-fold greater than the peak week of counted influenza deaths during the past 7 influenza seasons in the US, with a 20.5-fold mean increase,ā the authors wrote.
The CDC also recognizes that their COVID-19 death counts are continually revised due to delays in reporting. The authors believed that the ratio of counted COVID-19 deaths to flu deaths will rise. Additionally, they said their ratios are more clinically consistent with the experiences of health care workers on the front lines.
āWe infer that either the CDCās annual estimates substantially overstate the actual number of deaths caused by influenza or that the current number of COVID-19 counted deaths substantially understates the actual number of deaths caused by SARS-CoV-2, or both,ā they wrote.
The authors allowed for several considerations, including that testing capacity is limited for COVID-19 and there could be false-negative results. They also said that flu deaths are not reportable to public health authoritiesāwhile COVID-19 deaths are, which could lead to potential underreporting.
Drawing direct comparisons between 2 diseases, despite mortality statistics being collected by different methods, provides inaccurate information. The failure to consider these differences by experts āthreatens public health,ā the authors wrote, especially as they rely on the comparisons āto reopen the economy and deescalate mitigation strategies.ā
āAlthough officials may say that SARS-CoV-2 is ājust another flu,ā this is not true,ā the authors concluded. āOur analysis suggests that comparisons between SARS-CoV-2 mortality and seasonal influenza mortality must be made using an apples-to-apples comparison, not an apples-to-oranges comparison. Doing so better demonstrates the true threat to public health from COVID-19.ā
Well the numbers they use are much higher than those on the CDC site.
You wrote āweāve seen huge hospitalizations from younger peopleā which is not true. 0-49 yrs of age is 0.017%
True as is the case with any disease but, the chance of hospitalization due to Covid is still really low.
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I should not have said huge. But the idea that āfor the rest of us itās nothing to worry aboutā is wrong and what I was reacting to. Itās precisely this mentality that is why the US hasnāt had the type of success other countries have in lowering cases.
I read the first one that said the risk for most of the population is very low.
And in some places, people who have COVID and die are counted as COVID deaths even if there were multiple factors leading to their death. So none of the statistics for either are 100% accurate.
If you are under 70 and in good health then you have more chance of dying from a long list of other causes than COVID.
Which has nothing to do with the comparison when asking if the flu and Covid are the same.
Never will be 100% accurate. But we have multiple sources showing Covid is much more deadly. So at best what youāre doing is dismissing all the data based on that. And then I will agree if we dismiss all data the flu and Covid are the exact same.
Never said otherwise.
But has everything to do with me saying that COVID is nothing to worry about for most people. And I never said that COVID and the flu are the same, is this another of your strawman arguments?
And we have multiple sources showing that itās not.
This is impossible to know but highly unlikely based on data from the flu and Covid. Some perhaps but on the whole? No again a reason exists why itās different and why you can find so many articles stating as such. Not to mention best as I know the flu isnāt regularly killing people this consistently throughout the year?
I linked a few articles. You can read them and let me know if you think the conclusions they come to are wrong. Iām not saying Iām definitely correct, but it would seem at this point equating the two year in and year out as similar (avoiding outliers like 1918) doesnāt have much backing at all.
To me it seems like (from articles Iāve read) that we already have pretty close to a consensus that itās spread easier, more deadly, and results in more hospitalizations.
Impossible unless you actually try to look into it. Most people who die from the flu are the same groups, elderly or pre-existing health conditions.
Yes, because COVID is not the flu. The flu has a season, this one obviously doesnāt.
There would be no sense in even trying, the flu has been around for a long time and COVID is new, nobody can say for sure how long we will be dealing with it. All Iām trying to say is that for most people the risk is low, and those who are at high risk for death or complications from COVID are going to be at high risk for the flu as well.