When should it not have continued? So if it was a week in it should have stopped? Two weeks in? Some stay at home orders initially were for even as low as ten days. Many states extended these themselves.
So if these were such a short period of time anyways when exactly was the piece of information out there that it should have ended? In a nation where 100 k are dead and closing in on 2 million infected what was the exact time that information came out that during an already short shutdown it should have been cut even shorter?
Should we have stopped 5 hours in? Two days? 4? When did we know for a fact that a shutdown wasnât needed? Do we even know that it was unnecessary now? Based on what exactly? For something thatâs not even over and something that continues to spread quickly in this country your confidence about being able to know at a certain time that actions werenât needed is surprising.
Like I said I fully expected the people saying âwell we didnât need thatâ when they are armed with 20/20 hindsight. I just expected it to be closer to when something was done.
There are plenty of doctors and scientists saying the same thing as me. One group wrote an article in one of the main Canadian newspapers a week or two ago (I linked it in here). But of course Iâm the unreasonable one. You seem to have a problem with anyone who questions the authorities, except of course if itâs Trump and the Republicans.
Everything you are typing here has already been addressed. There is nothing more to say.
Agreed. Really hoping that these protests donât cause a resurgence.
Of course, if that does happen it will disproportionally hit urban, liberal areas and Trump will jump all over that turning it into a political issue saying that the democratic leaders there allowed the virus to spread and did a terrible job.
Of course. And plenty saying otherwise. I donât think youâre unreasonable. I think youâre misinformed. Which is why you had Gates speech wrong and why youâre giving him way too much power.
I donât care about anyone questioning the authorities. You were originally panic mode saying declare it a global emergency and talking about how Canada was fucked. Then you come back later and say that the WHO fucked up calling it a global emergency a full month after you called for that.
You praise totalitarian states because they can do what they want. Then you talk about governments shouldnât have done this, that, whatever. Did you ever once think you werenât going to be able to do this? Did you ever think people werenât going to be able to look back at some point and say âwe should have done this. We shouldnât have done that.â
You can see in your own words how much things changed over time. And now you want to play Monday morning quarterback as if we will ever have a clue what situations would be like today with different scenarios. Thatâs not how things work. Until we can setup an alternate reality we can only say how things are today given the actions done previously.
If you want to run around talking about how much we know now and all the things that should have been done differently knock yourself out. Seems pretty foolish to me in a situation that hasnât even played out yet. Usually the people who are saying âyep knew it all alongâ at least wait until an event is over.
We will be able to, and need to look back and dissect our decision making using hindsight. But this is not over yet. We have a ways to go before we can celebrate being out of the woods.
I posted this earlier up the thread, @Californiagrown. I just thought this was a good time to repost it. When we finally do the Post-Mortem of all of this; I think we will find the following:
Some things were done right.
Some things were done wrong.
Some things we continued to do wrong despite mounting evidence to the contrary, and
Some things were absolutely FUBAR from the very beginning.
In terms of the riots.
In a crazy way, they may either provide us a âopeningâ or confirm our worst fears. I also agree with someone who posted earlierâŠUrban poor areas stand to take the greatest hit if the latter ends up being true.
Nothing good will come of them because people are protesting something that does not exist. What I mean is, they have become about fascism and not racial inequality.
Black people in the inner cities donât care about fascism, transgender bathroom issues, the patriarchy, white privilege, communism, socialism, etc. They care about having safe communities with good schools and no fear, justified or not, of the police. They canât afford the luxury of being enraged over made up oppression.
When I said âopeningâ it was not in relation to the social, political and cultural underpinnings of the riots, but more related to the spread of the virus.
IF we donât see a severe uptick, that could be a good sign.
IF we see it ravage these already ravaged communities, then it will confirm our worst fears.
The problem now is, how can things open up in this climate of violence and destruction? Businesses have been destroyed so they wonât open. People wonât go out because of fear of violence, not corona. People wonât go to work for fear of protesters and looters.
Iâve maintained for a while now that this country is sick. Weâre fat gluttons. Weâre addicts to drugs, alcohol, social media. We voluntarily watch news shows that will give us our daily ration of rage and create feelings of looking at other Americans as the Other. You have a bunch of white suburbanites who have received all of the benefits of being white that came at the expense of blacks (white flight, redlining) who for some reason are so angry they need to destroy things. When they see a white cop they need to know, they see themselves. Yet, we have a significant number of people who want to feel like victims.
The problem isnât Trump. It isnât the cops. It isnât corona. It isnât the rich or the poor. Itâs not whites, blacks, Latinos, Asians. The problem is Americans. We are the problem. Weâre weak, petty, selfish, shallow, immature, dumb, hypocritical, naive and ignorant.
Yes, because based on the information available at the time it made sense to shut down. However, there was no mention of the fact that most deaths in Italy were in nursing homes, and that drastically changes the situation. In any case, once the facts became clear it made no sense to continue with the shutdown, shutting down comes at a cost and the longer it goes on the worse it gets. Iâm not any sort of expert, so I expect the WHO to be able to figure these things out faster than me but apparently they are incompetent as fuck.
You are twisting my words, mentioning that there happen to be some benefits in certain situations does not equal praising them.
Not true, you can look at other countries that took different measures. Apparently Sweden fucked up by not taking adequate measure to protect nursing homes, but aside from that they are alright. Itâs pretty easy to see where things went wrong when you have enough statistics to work with.
Nobody knew it all along and it was a gamble one way or another at the beginning, but we are well past that now. Sure some places in the US eased up restrictions, even Quebec which was by far the hardest hit eased up restrictions but only after making the necessary changes. My issue is with places like where I live (Ontario) which are still mostly shut down and for no good reason.
You keep bringing up facts. When was the exact time and the exact fact that said to not shutdown? Where are you talking about? Do you think the world should have all done the same thing at the same time. Did a paper come out that said coronavirus over and done at some point that I missed.
What is the magic fact that said everyone go back to normal and how do you know? Do all medical professionals agree with the magic fact? Does it work for the world? Just Kingston?
I have good news if you think the WHO is incompetent as fuck. Are you excited to hear it? I feel like Iâve said it already but I think youâll find it good. The WHO isnât the reason Canada or the US shut down. And they donât have anything to do with how they reopen. Isnât that terrific news?! If you think they are incompetent as fuck youâre in the clear man!
Lmao you canât be serious with this right? A global pandemic that ravaged some countries and barely touched others with vastly different populations and all sorts of differences in overall health and genetics and itâs as simple as that?
Right. So it seems like you really trust some statistics and donât trust others. Itâs almost like instead of waiting so we have some actual facts and not just a bunch of random noise then we donât have a lot. Iâm largely saying this because people who do this for a living like Aragorn have told people over and over again basically that we donât know what we know.
At what point did the magic statistic come out? What was it exactly? Do we know for 100% fact itâs correct? How did you know it was the magic one?
From what Iâve read Ontario like most places in the US is opening in phases. To me this makes sense as if you decided to shutdown and be cautious one would also want to be cautious in how they reopened. Much like when to shutdown and for how long not everyone agreed and not everyone agrees on how to reopen.
I would suggest you talk to your leaders more and get mad at Bill Gates less. Or do both.
Itâs not one thing alone that happened at one precise moment in time, there are a lot of things to consider. There is really no point in continuing this argument, read this:
Also there are several articles and interviews with Knutt Wittkowski, he explains things well. Perhaps give rebuttals to his arguments instead of going on and on with the same arguments with me, because this is going nowhere.
Fortunately for US constitutional purists, we have the answer to the perennial question on their minds âbut what would the Founding Fathers have said about this?â
The Face first grows lank and wrinkled; then the Neck; then the Breast and Arms; the lower Parts continuing to the last as plump as ever: So that covering all above with a Basket, and regarding only what is below the Girdle, it is impossible of two Women to know an old from a young one. And as in the dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal, and frequently superior, every Knack being by Practice capable of Improvement