From, or with?
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That is true, but right now they are looking at months. In Ontario they just announced stricter measures yesterday, now all construction is banned expect āessential infrastructure projectsā and a bunch of other things that were open are closed. Over 1 million people applied for unemployment benefits in the last two weeks in Canada, and now you will have a whole bunch more.
It might be worse, the government cuts off benefits and 20-30% of the country is on welfare, businesses shut down all over, people evicted from their houses. Itās a looming disaster. What they are doing now is getting people by for the time being, but for a lot of people there wonāt be a normal to go back to. I donāt think the government even has a plan for that, if they do they havenāt discussed it publicly.
The problem with the āstudiesā and itās something that is conveniently ignored by many who bring them up is, they were done with people who had mild symptoms and probably would have lived regardless.
Because of. 
Actually, the best argument for a shutdown is Russia - theyāre also opting for closing everything down and banning people from leaving their homes.
What has Russia got to do with anything one might ask? Well, never in its 800 year history has Russia cared about its people (nor does it care now).
Only 34 years ago under the rule of the Russian equivalent of a bleeding heart liberal (Gorbachev) they kept doing business and usual and very perfectly fine with hundreds of thousands of people (if not millions) having drastically reduced lifespans, not to mention those dying outright. And Gorbachev is now ridiculed for his pusillanimity.
So if thereās one who would have kept the economy going, it would be the old Chekist Putin, as this was an once-in-a-life opportunity for a geopolitical offensive.
And if the pandemic was only somewhat worse that the flu, it would mean thatās a chance to get rid of a half a million or more of old functioning alcoholics that are dangerously close to living long enough to draw a state pension, something Putin has been grappling with due to the pesky problem of increased life expectancy.
However, Putin unlike Trump and Boris āI shook hands with Covid-19 patientsā listens to scientists. I donāt know what he knows about the virus, whether itās troubling breakdown per age cohorts or the infection rate, but itās telling that he opted for a shutdown damaging Russian faltering economy.
And he do that because he cares about the people.
Right, you just made my point. Context matters. Same with coronavirus deaths. Same with murders. Says x dies every so many minutes means nothing.
A death every 1.73 minutesā¦ The measurement is pointless is my point, bit it sounds scary this gets clicks.
To the doctors and nurses dealing with that many deaths it means something.
Who is they and what does months mean? 2 months vs 8 months is huge. Right now playing it by ear seems to be the best thing to do. I would say in the US at least it may be essential for the time being.
Iām not saying this isnāt bad. But it may be better than the alternative is what Iām saying. What if short term pain now leads to less long term pain? Wouldnāt you agree the trade off would be worth it? What if the fastest path out of this hell is actually patience? And a quick approach isnāt?
It might be worse. But again what if patience now is better long term. Most people said we shouldnāt act sooner than we did because of the economic implications. What if all that did was make them less in the short term and far worse in the long run. We canāt go back in time and change it but itās worth considering as we plan our next steps.
Getting people by for now is what needs to be done. And I donāt think government need concrete plans for 8 months from now. We need to deal with what is already in our eyesight. And then make future decisions off where it goes.
They might want to think about it because there could very well be a second wave.
Definitely. My point was we have no idea what the next month looks like. Iām all for people making plans whatever that means. But plans go to shit or arenāt needed based on a myriad of factors we canāt possibly predict right now.
Thatās 2D analysis. Putin plays 4D, well at least 3ā¦
Iām not going to pretend I can even guess at his thought process, but Iām pretty sure shutting down the American economy will do a lot more damage to America(ns) than shutting down the Russian āeconomyā will.
Good luck ādebatingā with the chicken little crowd. (no disrespect to the TNation CL of course!!!)
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From which perspective?
Air is cleaner. Water is clearer. The grass is still greening up.
People live and people die. This may be a natural remedy to human overpopulation. I donāt wish harm on anyone, but I canāt help but wonder why an upswing in the natural death rate in the US is so much more worrisome than the natural death rate in third world countries. After all, the death rate from disease is largely a matter of the medical care available.
I donāt wish this on you, me, or anyone in this country or yours but at the end of the day we are no more worthy than the millions in the slums of India or poverty of Africa. Weāre all a product of circumstance. Nationalism has a funny way of ignoring humanity.
Itās always bothered me that the public puts a strangers life that is close geographically, but still a complete stranger, in higher regard than a stranger on the other side of the world. Similarly I wonder why our lives our more important than the unborn generations ahead.
Is it possible that this virus is a blessing to humanity?
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They is the government and months is multiple months, ātheyā were talking about June being the possible end of this.
Shutdowns are being extended by 2-4 weeks at a time over here.
If thatās how it is then it would be a better choice, but it appears that this may not be the case at all.
Maybe not a concrete plan, but it doesnāt look like they have any plan at all. If you fail to plan then you plan to fail, right?
If that happens then it wonāt be nearly as bad as this one. Most people will already be immune, and then there is also the chance that the virus will mutate into something much weaker. I was reading about this a few weeks ago, itās very rare for a virus to mutate and become more dangerous, they almost always become weaker. They say itās some sort of survival strategy, if the virus kills off all its hosts fast then it canāt spread. You could look this up or ask someone with more medical knowledge than me.
Are you Greta Thunberg?
If the economic chaos leads to people and companies forgiving debts then maybe. But otherwise no.
But we are not confined to it.
Because they need us in order to be conceived, born, and raised.
Not true with Spanish flu.
No one knows that.
Seems like when I read the ātheyāsā disagree. Our they said April 12 and then April 30. They should be extended as needed. My point was those in power disagree and will change what they want based on facts. If Canada is not in crisis they wonāt increase it. Of course ātheyā are going to disagree on what that means.
If most of Canada is hospitalized what would be the point of stopping a shutdown? If Canada is on a good path and looking at this in the rear view the opposite would fit. Countries may differ on when the end is and when it should be. Experts and leaders are arguing this on a daily basis. We simply donāt know the right move yet. And the right move is up for debate. For now I think a shutdown makes sense, but a lot disagree with me and thatās fine.
What are you basing that on?
What concrete plan would you like to see at this moment? Does making a concrete plan make sense? What if New York is every state in America? What if in three weeks we are seeing the numbers drop big time? Not knowing a plan doesnāt mean they donāt exist. But surely you agree plans should change based on data?
I do take pride in the incredibly small part I have had in the conservation of resources. I gaze at my small native prairie daily. Thereās far worse things you can do than watching the grass grow and observing nature.
Go a step further. How is a company more than a government recognized entity? Which economy are you worried about? The one for the elite, the one for the common 401k holder, or the one living paycheck by paycheck? Are you sure that economic chaos doesnāt benefit far more than it harms?
Are we not? The slave may beg to differ. If a poor African child had a voice Iām willing to bet they would disagree too. You and I may not be so confined to it (although I could use Robert Novickās āTale of the Slaveā to suggest otherwise), but does your third world slum dog really have a legitimate path out? To take it a step further, does poor America have a path out that doesnāt include hitting the genetic lottery?
Agreed. I donāt expect anyone to have a crystal ball.
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