Didn’t anybody appreciate my Dave Chappell reference? I was proud of that.
[quote]OldOgre wrote:
I am not talking about the entire traffic stop. I am talking about when the officer walks up to give her the ticket to sign. When he is doing that, yes, she is technically being placed under arrest. Prior to that, no, she is not under arrest, she is simply detained. [/quote]
Unless I missed it, he didn’t give her the ticket to sign.
[quote]b89 wrote:
She never attempted to take possession of the clipboard, requested he drop it through the crack in the window or reached through the crack in the window to grab the clipboard from him. She refused to roll the window down completely and rolled her window up completely after momentarily sticking her hand through the crack. Prior to that she questioned why she needed to roll her window down completely.
[/quote]
He never offered it to her. He whined about her not rolling down the window.
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]b89 wrote:
She never attempted to take possession of the clipboard, requested he drop it through the crack in the window or reached through the crack in the window to grab the clipboard from him. She refused to roll the window down completely and rolled her window up completely after momentarily sticking her hand through the crack. Prior to that she questioned why she needed to roll her window down completely.
[/quote]
He never offered it to her. He whined about her not rolling down the window.[/quote]
Why can she not question the reason for rolling the window all the way down when legally she is not required to?
[quote]b89 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]b89 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]b89 wrote:
Well technically that already somewhat happened, that’s why he told her she’s being detained. I’m not a LEO so I can’t say what he’s to do. Does he have to physically transfer possession of that clipboard to the woman? I’ve no idea. However, he asked her to roll it down completely so he could hand it to her and then she refused and ultimately rolled her window up. It isn’t unreasonable to worry about your personal safety when transferring something to someone.
I can see an objection to him viewing her actions as a refusal to sign the citation but even after she rolled her window back down she questioned why she’s even pulled over and what she’s receiving a citation for even though it’s explained to her already.
[/quote]
What technically already somewhat happened?[/quote]
A refusal to sign.
[/quote]
How was it a refusal to sign? He never handed her the clipboard. And he could have. Easily and without all the drama.
[/quote]
She never attempted to take possession of the clipboard, requested he drop it through the crack in the window or reached through the crack in the window to grab the clipboard from him. She refused to roll the window down completely and rolled her window up completely after momentarily sticking her hand through the crack. Prior to that she questioned why she needed to roll her window down completely.
[/quote]
If she attempted to take possession of the clipboard when he didn’t ask her to, his ego would have done more than break a window.
[quote]xcintrik wrote:
Why can she not question the reason for rolling the window all the way down when legally she is not required to?[/quote]
Are you responding to me? It seems we are in agreement here…
We are in agreement, I am asking b89 why we are not allowed to ask ‘why’ when a cop demands something which is not a legal requirement.
…multiple times he threatened to break the window because he wanted her to do something she was not required to do legally.
b89 Are we required to do everything a cop says just because his ego demands that you must do as he tells you to do?
[quote]xcintrik wrote:
We are in agreement, I am asking b89 why we are not allowed to ask ‘why’ when a cop demands something which is not a legal requirement.
…multiple times he threatened to break the window because he wanted her to do something she was not required to do legally.
b89 Are we required to do everything a cop says just because his ego demands that you must do as he tells you to do?[/quote]
Exactly. At what point is a “lawful order” unquestionable? She appears somewhat frazzled/frightened in the video. Maybe she was scared the cop was going to bust her window in and throw her on the ground.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
In a police state or even a quasi-police state the answer is yes.
The common man needs to accept the idea that he must acquiesce to his rulers. He know longer owns the government; the government owns him. All in the interest of safety, of course.
Who’s your daddy?[/quote]
Exactly my point, and when people are suggesting that she was required to roll down the window all the way just because he said so (as in she did something wrong)… Thank you for giving up the rights that our own people have died for in war…
You have to draw a line in the sand somewhere
[quote]b89 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]b89 wrote:
Well technically that already somewhat happened, that’s why he told her she’s being detained. I’m not a LEO so I can’t say what he’s to do. Does he have to physically transfer possession of that clipboard to the woman? I’ve no idea. However, he asked her to roll it down completely so he could hand it to her and then she refused and ultimately rolled her window up. It isn’t unreasonable to worry about your personal safety when transferring something to someone.
I can see an objection to him viewing her actions as a refusal to sign the citation but even after she rolled her window back down she questioned why she’s even pulled over and what she’s receiving a citation for even though it’s explained to her already.
[/quote]
What technically already somewhat happened?[/quote]
A refusal to sign.
[/quote]
Nonsense…pay attention.
[quote]b89 wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]b89 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I have to go with it is the war on drugs 
When they hire cops today , they need them to do as they are told , not use common sense. Other wise common sense would have told the cop that he could charm this young lady , she was clearly non threatening [/quote]
My common sense would tell me that I don’t want to get my arm rolled up in the window of some lady’s car so I’d prefer it if she rolled her window down so I can give her the citation. [/quote]
It’s fine that you make the request, it’s also fine that see declines. What isn’t fine is an officer escalating a traffic stop like this. He should be assigned to a desk job, receive additional training, and if his conduct does comply with department policy, then the policy needs to be changed. He should also be required to publish a written apology in the local newspaper and read same on all the local news broadcasts.
[/quote]
He didn’t really escalate anything, he made requests. If she handled it differently the outcome may have been more favorable for her. The real question is whether or not he violated the SOPs or whatever it’s called for LEOs. [/quote]
Have you ever had any conflict resolution training? In this case it is the Officer that escalates the situation…plain and simple.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]b89 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]b89 wrote:
Well technically that already somewhat happened, that’s why he told her she’s being detained. I’m not a LEO so I can’t say what he’s to do. Does he have to physically transfer possession of that clipboard to the woman? I’ve no idea. However, he asked her to roll it down completely so he could hand it to her and then she refused and ultimately rolled her window up. It isn’t unreasonable to worry about your personal safety when transferring something to someone.
I can see an objection to him viewing her actions as a refusal to sign the citation but even after she rolled her window back down she questioned why she’s even pulled over and what she’s receiving a citation for even though it’s explained to her already.
[/quote]
What technically already somewhat happened?[/quote]
A refusal to sign.
[/quote]
How was it a refusal to sign? He never handed her the clipboard. And he could have. Easily and without all the drama.
[/quote]
She even reaches out the window for the clipboard.
[quote]CroatianRage wrote:
[quote]xcintrik wrote:
We are in agreement, I am asking b89 why we are not allowed to ask ‘why’ when a cop demands something which is not a legal requirement.
…multiple times he threatened to break the window because he wanted her to do something she was not required to do legally.
b89 Are we required to do everything a cop says just because his ego demands that you must do as he tells you to do?[/quote]
Exactly. At what point is a “lawful order” unquestionable? She appears somewhat frazzled/frightened in the video. Maybe she was scared the cop was going to bust her window in and throw her on the ground.[/quote]
Amen!
[quote]OldOgre wrote:
Didn’t anybody appreciate my Dave Chappell reference? I was proud of that.[/quote]
I got that and appreciated it.
I was kinda picturing her head starting the orbit while yelling “I keeps it REAL mahfucka!”.
On the arrest thing- It was explained to me that any time your ability to travel freely is stopped by a police officer you have been arrested as your progress toward where ever you were going has been stopped. Whether anything actually comes of it (citation, detention, formal charges) is a different matter.
in the old days it took a cop with the balls to pursue everything with not much back up. Today they SWAT everything .
[quote]CroatianRage wrote:
My girlfriend had a fake cop pull her over before I met her. Now if she ever gets pulled over I told her she needs to only crack the window and call 911 to verify that it is a real officer. Once again, it is more safe for both parties if the window is only cracked. This cop didn’t like his authority challenged so he broke the window and cuffed a woman who told him she was having a miscarriage. All he had to do was slide his little fucking clipboard through the slot in her window and swallow his pride.
It’s frightening that anyone would side with the cop on this one.
[/quote]
Care to elaborate on this story? What happened? Hopefully everything turned out alright.