Continuation on the Reproductive Rights Topic

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
341

[quote]Sloth wrote:
The longer we put off cuts in entitlements and reform, the more drastic and abrupt doing so will need to be. The more drastic and abrupt it becomes, the less likely we will. Already it seems an impossibility. Add on young, working, tax producers not having the demographic voting bloc to save themselves from the dependent, and it becomes simply impossible. It’s now a reinforcing problem.

A generous welfare state needs an orderly propagation of the citizenry in intact homes.

A smaller government society needs an orderly propagation of the citizenry in intact homes. [/quote]

Now your just ranting off topic.

I still have not seen an example of what these children are being taught in school that is so bad. I went through the same system not that long ago.

342

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
The longer we put off cuts in entitlements and reform, the more drastic and abrupt doing so will need to be. The more drastic and abrupt it becomes, the less likely we will. Already it seems an impossibility. Add on young, working, tax producers not having the demographic voting bloc to save themselves from the dependent, and it becomes simply impossible. It’s now a reinforcing problem.

A generous welfare state needs an orderly propagation of the citizenry in intact homes.

A smaller government society needs an orderly propagation of the citizenry in intact homes. [/quote]

Now your just ranting off topic.

I still have not seen an example of what these children are being taught in school that is so bad. I went through the same system not that long ago.[/quote]

Off topic only if you’re incredibly short-sighted. Only off-topic if you’re truly shallow-minded enough to believe that sexual attitudes and practices end at the individual level, quarantined off from society and it’s health into perpetuity.

343

[quote]therajraj wrote:

You made an analogy comparing an alcoholic (a SINGLE SPECIFIC type of addiction) to an addiction society has. I interpreted your post as saying we’re addicted to sex.

Cortes wrote:

Second, I never said anything about thinking sex education “inappropriate,” either to adults or children.

You said:

Cortes wrote:

teaching CHILDREN how to engage in acts that I would be ashamed to “teach” to adults, and presenting this material as if it is somehow
normal?

So you’re saying you’d be ashamed to teach it to adults, but you wouldn’t deem it inappropriate? You say I’m disingenuous, but I’m merely interpreting what you wrote.

[/quote]
I’d be embarrassed as hell teaching an adult or child the appropriate way to roll a condom onto a penis with my mouth, or teaching someone “how to” masturbate. So yeah, you got me. I’m an atavistic fundamentalist Neo-Victorian who wears a chastity belt.

Of course not. Neither my dad’s talk nor the book made it to appropriate fisting techniques or the proper way to touch myself. If he had started trying to educate me on the latter, then yeah, I think I’d not recall the experience with anywhere near the same fondness. I would have felt uncomfortable as hell, to say the least. And believe it or not, without any coaching from anyone at all, I managed to figure that part out all on my own.

I don’t want it taught during any period. It’s not a teacher’s job to show my kid how to have sex. What kind of training do they receive for this? What authority do they possess? What expertise?

And a question: Do kids have the option of opting out of the program?

Really.

Okay, another question:

In your opinion, what exactly are the duties of a parent to her child? Where do they begin and end?

You are nitpicking. You did the same thing to DD earlier in the thread. Because the analogy is not absolutely 100% equivalent, it invalidates the entire point. Convenient rule. Meanwhile down on Earth, I am illustrating that there are some things you wouldn’t want your kids being taught. Car engine mechanics, watchmaking, welding are all scientifically valid, proven, and even useful fields of science and engineering. However, I see no need to waste kids time with any of them in public school.

344

Damn quote tags.

It was a bloody mess. I did the best I could.

345

Sex education is relevant to 99.999% of the population. Most people have no need to know the details about car engines, watchmaking and welding. The time dedicated to sex education is small anyway and not taking away from anything else. The most any grade does it is 1 hour a day for 1 week max. If its useful information, relevant to almost everyone and proven not to be harmful. I don’t see the problem with kids of the appropriate age learning about it for a few hours of the year when their parents might completely avoid the subject.

What did all of you learn in sex education that was so bad?

346

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Sex education is relevant to 99.999% of the population. Most people have no need to know the details about car engines, watchmaking and welding. The time dedicated to sex education is small anyway and not taking away from anything else. The most any grade does it is 1 hour a day for 1 week max. If its useful information, relevant to almost everyone and proven not to be harmful. I don’t see the problem with kids of the appropriate age learning about it for a few hours of the year when their parents might completely avoid the subject.

What did all of you learn in sex education that was so bad?[/quote]

We have been discussing this:

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/continuation_on_the_reproductive_rights_topic?id=5083178&pageNo=0

When did you get here?

347

What specifically on the first page?

The history of planned parenthood

or

The video that no longer works

348

Without seeing the video I will assume it showed some controversial material

  1. Is it being showed in a large majority of public schools? If its just a small percentage then the video does not represent a problem in the system.

  2. If its the standard video that MOST middle/high school students in the united states see then I agree it should be stopped and just substituted with any videos I saw while in school.

349

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Damn quote tags.

It was a bloody mess. I did the best I could. [/quote]

LOL I didn’t want to get into the quote mess above but to answer your question.

I can only speak for my boys that had “Health” at the end of last school year. We were able to review all materials and sign a permission slip before their participation. If we said no they would have had other instruction during that time with other kids whose parents said no.

We didn’t object to the materials and discussed what was gone over in class nightly.

350

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Damn quote tags.

It was a bloody mess. I did the best I could. [/quote]

LOL I didn’t want to get into the quote mess above but to answer your question.

I can only speak for my boys that had “Health” at the end of last school year. We were able to review all materials and sign a permission slip before their participation. If we said no they would have had other instruction during that time with other kids whose parents said no.

We didn’t object to the materials and discussed what was gone over in class nightly.[/quote]

Did any of that material include putting on a condom with your mouth or how to masturbate? Thanks for bringing up the permission slip thing I forgot about that. I remember the class being almost completely full during sex education, meaning almost no students had parents who objected. If a larger number of them were opting out of sex education this might be more of an issue but in general most people don’t have a problem with it.

351

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Damn quote tags.

It was a bloody mess. I did the best I could. [/quote]

LOL I didn’t want to get into the quote mess above but to answer your question.

I can only speak for my boys that had “Health” at the end of last school year. We were able to review all materials and sign a permission slip before their participation. If we said no they would have had other instruction during that time with other kids whose parents said no.

We didn’t object to the materials and discussed what was gone over in class nightly.[/quote]

I honestly don’t have a problem with this.

If the material is informative, not gratuitous or unnecessarily explicit, tastefully and sensitively presented, and the option exists to opt out without any overt or latent penalty, I could probably live with that. I don’t think it has any place in an elementary school. From 7th grade, maybe.

Incidentally, I wonder if any of you non-Catholics were aware that, as part of their studies to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation, at least in my diocese, youth are required to attend a week of classes that would have to be described as none other than sexual education. Among other things, we learned about contraception (OMG!), pregnancy, sex (within sensible boundaries), STD’s and the process of giving birth (including an actual video of a woman giving birth in which you could see absolutely everything…ugh).

352

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Damn quote tags.

It was a bloody mess. I did the best I could. [/quote]

LOL I didn’t want to get into the quote mess above but to answer your question.

I can only speak for my boys that had “Health” at the end of last school year. We were able to review all materials and sign a permission slip before their participation. If we said no they would have had other instruction during that time with other kids whose parents said no.

We didn’t object to the materials and discussed what was gone over in class nightly.[/quote]

I honestly don’t have a problem with this.

If the material is informative, not gratuitous or unnecessarily explicit, tastefully and sensitively presented, and the option exists to opt out without any overt or latent penalty, I could probably live with that. I don’t think it has any place in an elementary school. From 7th grade, maybe.
[/quote]

If this is what you believe then we’re not far off in opinion.

I’m not sure where all this talk of masturbation, anal sex, fisting came into play in sex education. However, if a student asks a question on one of these topics, I think it should be answered.

I undertook sex education in 2000 and 2001.

This was the extent I learned about masturbation and anal sex:

we were given a page with a list of terms and definitions that we had to match. Masturbation was one of them.

During a discussion in ways to prevent pregnancy, anal sex was mentioned by one of the students.

As for condoms, the teacher had a wooden penis he called ‘woody’ (not a dildo) where he demonstrated to us how to put a condom on using it.

No one is talking about teaching kids how to masturbate, have anal sex or anything like that. We just want to teach children the facts about sex, contraceptive use and the risks involved when engaging in this behaviour. That’s it. I’m all for reforming sex education if necessary, but I don’t want to cut it out of schools. I’m also fine with the religious taking their children out of class.

Also, I’m not interested in teaching 10 year olds sexual health education, and I’m certainly uninterested in showing anything gratuitous.

353

I also looked through that book your dad showed you, and I guarantee Sloth and DD would not want to show that to children.

354

I don’t recall anal sex ever being mentioned in sex ed, I had to learn that from the internet. I also don’t think masturbation was exactly new material for me either when it came up at school. 7th grade seems about the right time, maybe 6th but in a more limited way.

355

Sufiandy: heres the video that sloth posted.

Here’s what’s presented as facts in the video:

  1. “Age appropriate” is a standard concocted by Planned Parenthood itself so that it can sell pornography to kids as science.

  2. Just as the goal of a drug dealer is to make drug addicts, Planned Parenthood?s goal is to make sex addicts.

  3. Planned Parenthood’s gateway drug is masturbation.

  4. Planned Parenthood tells vulnerable teens stimulating and intimate things about sex.

  5. What Planned Parenthood education booth would be complete without a fisting kit for homosexual college and teenage students?

356

Btw, they don’t show this stuff to 10 year olds. That’s a fiction.

357

The more time I spend here the more obvious all their sources of information are 1 sided propaganda. I’m getting better at detecting the less obvious ones now even in threads where they talk about things I don’t care about.

358

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Damn quote tags.

It was a bloody mess. I did the best I could. [/quote]

LOL I didn’t want to get into the quote mess above but to answer your question.

I can only speak for my boys that had “Health” at the end of last school year. We were able to review all materials and sign a permission slip before their participation. If we said no they would have had other instruction during that time with other kids whose parents said no.

We didn’t object to the materials and discussed what was gone over in class nightly.[/quote]

I honestly don’t have a problem with this.

If the material is informative, not gratuitous or unnecessarily explicit, tastefully and sensitively presented, and the option exists to opt out without any overt or latent penalty, I could probably live with that. I don’t think it has any place in an elementary school. From 7th grade, maybe.

Incidentally, I wonder if any of you non-Catholics were aware that, as part of their studies to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation, at least in my diocese, youth are required to attend a week of classes that would have to be described as none other than sexual education. Among other things, we learned about contraception (OMG!), pregnancy, sex (within sensible boundaries), STD’s and the process of giving birth (including an actual video of a woman giving birth in which you could see absolutely everything…ugh).[/quote]

WOW! They didn’t do any of that back when I got my Sacrement of Confirmation!

They did this class at the end of 5th grade before they went off to middle school and got submerged into the hormone pool. It helped alot because my step son hates to talk about this stuff (his biological Father is a DOUCHE) and it opened doors and forced him to ask questions then and still (like why when I wake up do I pee on the ceiling?)

But from what I remember I think my buddies and I discovered our Dad’s Playboy stash around 6th grade so that was also why I didn’t have any issues.

Also if they children became uncomfortable they could let the teacher know and be excused.

Any other questions on it let me know.

359

More repressed stupidity:

Abstinence-Only Sex Education Bill In Utah Prohibits Teaching Contraception

360

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Damn quote tags.

It was a bloody mess. I did the best I could. [/quote]

LOL I didn’t want to get into the quote mess above but to answer your question.

I can only speak for my boys that had “Health” at the end of last school year. We were able to review all materials and sign a permission slip before their participation. If we said no they would have had other instruction during that time with other kids whose parents said no.

We didn’t object to the materials and discussed what was gone over in class nightly.[/quote]

I honestly don’t have a problem with this.

If the material is informative, not gratuitous or unnecessarily explicit, tastefully and sensitively presented, and the option exists to opt out without any overt or latent penalty, I could probably live with that. I don’t think it has any place in an elementary school. From 7th grade, maybe.

Incidentally, I wonder if any of you non-Catholics were aware that, as part of their studies to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation, at least in my diocese, youth are required to attend a week of classes that would have to be described as none other than sexual education. Among other things, we learned about contraception (OMG!), pregnancy, sex (within sensible boundaries), STD’s and the process of giving birth (including an actual video of a woman giving birth in which you could see absolutely everything…ugh).[/quote]

WOW! They didn’t do any of that back when I got my Sacrement of Confirmation!

They did this class at the end of 5th grade before they went off to middle school and got submerged into the hormone pool. It helped alot because my step son hates to talk about this stuff (his biological Father is a DOUCHE) and it opened doors and forced him to ask questions then and still (like why when I wake up do I pee on the ceiling?)

But from what I remember I think my buddies and I discovered our Dad’s Playboy stash around 6th grade so that was also why I didn’t have any issues.

Also if they children became uncomfortable they could let the teacher know and be excused.

Any other questions on it let me know.[/quote]

Thanks for that. What you are describing doesn’t sound bad,and I don’t think I’d have any real issues with my son if that were the case.

Now, having finally had the opportunity to watch that video and see what was on it, all of the other stuff I said before this still stands. If that kind of crap was being shown to my son in his public school and I found out about it his teacher would be lucky if he left school that day with just a broken nose.

Putting aside even, for a second, the pretty much unsupported claims of the narrator, the material speaks for itself. 10 years old, 12 years old, or high school, I don’t care. In or out of context, what I saw was nothing but a bunch of irredeemable trash. If sex ed material is to be presented to young, impressionable audiences, it should be presented with tact and taste, with its target audience and goals in mind. It should NOT be coarse, vulgar, boorish or borderline obscene.

Again, I suspect this is not the same material that is being presented in schools (I certainly hope not!). But it is telling that this is the kind of junk that Planned Parenthood has to offer. Regardless what kind of informative gems may be buried in that material, the fact that that material is representative of that organization in any way tells me a lot about the organization itself.