jtrinsey,
I would be great if you joined this discussion. Plus, with all that time you spent with supertraining, I think you could really help us out. If you have read the posts above, we plan to start designing strength programs based on the eastern block training principles. Lots of great info up there, should catch up an check it out.
This should be a fun venture.
-The Truth
Just somethings to think about.
“Through trial and error I have personally found the Westside Barbell Method, the Charlie Francis Training System (Vertical Integration), Auto-Regulatory Training Management, the Russian born Conjugate Sequence/Coupled Successive System, Block Training, and Concurrent/Complex System of training to be unrivaled means of raising special strength and speed preparedness for athletes of varying levels of qualification.”
-James Smith.
I will be trying to pull up all my old threads, websites, etc to read over these topics again.
-The Truth
Hey, an apology in advance if my program takes awhile, I’m gonna be busy as hell this quarter.
This is what JS had to say,
“Here’s the breakdown: In the most basic sense we may delineate between concurrent/complex and conjugate sequencing by means of discussing the percentage of training volume allotted to the development of various abilities. An equally, or approximately equal, allotted percentage of the training load appropriated to X , Y and Z abilities is consistent with concurrent/complex methodolgoy. A distinguishably greater percentage of the training load allotted towards the development of one primary ability (X) with the concurrent maintenance/retention of other required abilities (Y, Z,etc) is consistent with conjugate sequencing; specifically when the primary targeted motor task is different from training block to training block (block 1 X, block 2 Y, block 3 Z, etc).”
“Important to note is that the distinction between unidirectional/concentrated loading and conjugate sequencing is that the former devotes the entirety of the training load towards one motor task (linear periodization) whereas the latter devotes a majority towards one motor task yet also provides for the training of secondary, tertiary, etc motor tasks. Verkhoshanski corroborated this fact to me himself. So in effect, the Conjugate Sequence System (synonymous with Block Training and Coupled Succesive System) is ultimately an example of concetrated loading directed towards the primary task and concurrent/complex training directed towards secondary, tertiary, etc tasks.”
"Where the distinction becomes clouded is towards the ranges of training load distribution in which the training load is neither equally appropriated nor dominantly directed. At either end we can clearly state that concurrent or conjugate sequencing is the organizational methodology. Somewhere in between the two aspects of training load distribution the discussion can easily become academic and at this point any further debate becomes futile. After all, raising the motor potential of the sportsmen is the goal.
“A clear identification of Conjugate Sequencing is such that the succession of training blocks target different primary tasks which together form a significant cummulative training effect while concurrently providing for the maintenance/retention of any other motor task which is of signficance towards to heightening of sport skill. Thus the optimization of Conjugate Sequencing is the careful placement of primary motor tasks, targeted for development via concentrated training, in a specific succession which yields the most significant cummulative training effect all the while never excluding any secondary, tertiary,etc abilities from the training.”
Excellent Answer,
Im gonna try and email him back and ask a few more Q’s.
-The Truth
This subject is great and many of you have great knowledge in this area. My question to all of you is: Was the conjugate method developed for sports skill training? The number of skills and movement patterns that one would need to train for a given sport would be much greater than three lifts in powerlifting. The Westside method seems to do a good job applying the conjugate method to powerlifting.
The conjugate method was developed in order to train multiple qualities simultaneously, enabling them to retain all abilities.
I think it can aid sports skill training greatly from a general perspective. (Train for the motor abilites required in you sport.) However, I believe that playing your sport and having experience outweighs the training done in the weightroom. I am not saying that weight training doesn’t provide massive advantages, I just think that weight training is only 1 factor out of many that will contribute to your overall success on the field.
Thanks,
-The Truth
[quote]Chris Arp wrote:
This subject is great and many of you have great knowledge in this area. My question to all of you is: Was the conjugate method developed for sports skill training? The number of skills and movement patterns that one would need to train for a given sport would be much greater than three lifts in powerlifting. The Westside method seems to do a good job applying the conjugate method to powerlifting. [/quote]
Yes conjugate does account for sport specific/sport skill training. Please see James Smiths article Classification of the Means at his website.
For those who seem to think conjugate is only a strength training methodology, it is not. It is an approach to the systematic development of an athlete and takes EVERYTHING into account
[quote]thetruth24 wrote:
The conjugate method was developed in order to train multiple qualities simultaneously, enabling them to retain all abilities.
I think it can aid sports skill training greatly from a general perspective. (Train for the motor abilites required in you sport.) However, I believe that playing your sport and having experience outweighs the training done in the weightroom. I am not saying that weight training doesn’t provide massive advantages, I just think that weight training is only 1 factor out of many that will contribute to your overall success on the field.
Thanks,
-The Truth
Chris Arp wrote:
This subject is great and many of you have great knowledge in this area. My question to all of you is: Was the conjugate method developed for sports skill training? The number of skills and movement patterns that one would need to train for a given sport would be much greater than three lifts in powerlifting. The Westside method seems to do a good job applying the conjugate method to powerlifting.
[/quote]
[quote]squattin600 wrote:
Yes conjugate does account for sport specific/sport skill training. Please see James Smiths article Classification of the Means at his website.
For those who seem to think conjugate is only a strength training methodology, it is not. It is an approach to the systematic development of an athlete and takes EVERYTHING into account
[/quote]
On this note, although it can be modified for anything, the conjugate sequence system was developed with information from track and field, weightlifting (somewhat), and strength/endurance sports (swimming, cycling, etc.). Things like "skill" 1)can be trained all (most) of the time and 2)are difficult to quantify. Ex: there's no research on the volume of hitting the sled that a football lineman should do, only experience can tell you that. The picture becomes a little more cloudy when less quantifiable means are used, especially in team sports. Now that I think about it, research in the training of specific team sports (and not just strength or speed training) may also be a field of the future in sport training.
Recently been posting on Elitefts, specifically for JS. I also left a couple Qs for him on his powerdevelopmentinc. He has a book called “High Low Sequences of Programming and Organizing Training”. It looks good, but at a 63 page manuel, 55 bucks is kinda pricy. Ill try and save up. If anyone owns this book, I would love your feedback.
Anyway, I have been tossing a few ideas around, thinking of designing a conjugate sequence system that utilizes “concentrated loading”
Blocks
THIS IS A ME BLOCK IM TRYING TO CONFIGURE, SKIPPED THE RE BLOCK FOR NOW. BUT I DO HAVE IN MIND, AN UNDULATING SCHEME SINCE I NOE IT DOES A GREAT JOB PRODUCING HYPERTROPHY
WEEK 1- CONCENTRATED ME
WEEK 2- CONCURRENT/COMPLEX
WEEK 3- CONCENTRATED ME
WEEK 4- DELOAD
WEEK 1
THURS TOTAL
C. DB FLOOR PRESS 3x3
SAT,
WEEK 2 CONCURRENT
TUES.
3 RM
BACK WORK
PRESSING VARIATION
SHOULDER WORK
THURS
LOWER BODY STRUCTURED LIKE TUES.
SAT.
4x3 DE WORK
A1.***
A2.***
B1.***
B2.***
C1.***
C2.***
***-POWERBUILDING ROUTINE.
Very unrefined and definitley in it’s early stages. Some thoughts/ideas/suggestions would be nice.
-The Truth
The cycle looks alot like DB Hammers Perpetual Performance loop/cycle
Hypertrophy → Strength → Power
So there is a pretty solid chance of success… The way I’ve read about maintenance loads, you use the warm up to do some low volume maintenance work (like ladder work during a strength cycle). You also would use their “fatigue” cycle for any elements not trained during the "frequency cycle. Generally frequency cycles last 2-3 weeks and fatigue cycles are 1-2 weeks
Well it’s food for thought
[quote]thetruth24 wrote:
Recently been posting on Elitefts, specifically for JS. I also left a couple Qs for him on his powerdevelopmentinc. He has a book called “High Low Sequences of Programming and Organizing Training”. It looks good, but at a 63 page manuel, 55 bucks is kinda pricy. Ill try and save up. If anyone owns this book, I would love your feedback.
Anyway, I have been tossing a few ideas around, thinking of designing a conjugate sequence system that utilizes “concentrated loading”
Blocks
THIS IS A ME BLOCK IM TRYING TO CONFIGURE, SKIPPED THE RE BLOCK FOR NOW. BUT I DO HAVE IN MIND, AN UNDULATING SCHEME SINCE I NOE IT DOES A GREAT JOB PRODUCING HYPERTROPHY
WEEK 1- CONCENTRATED ME
WEEK 2- CONCURRENT/COMPLEX
WEEK 3- CONCENTRATED ME
WEEK 4- DELOAD
WEEK 1
THURS TOTAL
C. DB FLOOR PRESS 3x3
SAT,
WEEK 2 CONCURRENT
TUES.
3 RM
BACK WORK
PRESSING VARIATION
SHOULDER WORK
THURS
LOWER BODY STRUCTURED LIKE TUES.
SAT.
4x3 DE WORK
A1.***
A2.***
B1.***
B2.***
C1.***
C2.***
***-POWERBUILDING ROUTINE.
Very unrefined and definitley in it’s early stages. Some thoughts/ideas/suggestions would be nice.
-The Truth[/quote]
LoL, ReaLLy? I neVer REaD AbOUT DB HAmmerS B4. I jusT heARd AbOUT it. Would you mind coining me in on their principles, or where I can read more about them?
Anyway, Ill be trying to configure this in my mind all day. Let me know if you have any suggestions. (Trying to have a conjugate sequence system that employs concentrated loading)
I posted at Elitefts for some questions. You guys should sign up and help me!
-The Truth
[quote]squattin600 wrote:
The cycle looks alot like DB Hammers Perpetual Performance loop/cycle
Hypertrophy → Strength → Power
So there is a pretty solid chance of success… The way I’ve read about maintenance loads, you use the warm up to do some low volume maintenance work (like ladder work during a strength cycle). You also would use their “fatigue” cycle for any elements not trained during the "frequency cycle. Generally frequency cycles last 2-3 weeks and fatigue cycles are 1-2 weeks
Well it’s food for thought
thetruth24 wrote:
Recently been posting on Elitefts, specifically for JS. I also left a couple Qs for him on his powerdevelopmentinc. He has a book called “High Low Sequences of Programming and Organizing Training”. It looks good, but at a 63 page manuel, 55 bucks is kinda pricy. Ill try and save up. If anyone owns this book, I would love your feedback.
Anyway, I have been tossing a few ideas around, thinking of designing a conjugate sequence system that utilizes “concentrated loading”
Blocks
THIS IS A ME BLOCK IM TRYING TO CONFIGURE, SKIPPED THE RE BLOCK FOR NOW. BUT I DO HAVE IN MIND, AN UNDULATING SCHEME SINCE I NOE IT DOES A GREAT JOB PRODUCING HYPERTROPHY
WEEK 1- CONCENTRATED ME
WEEK 2- CONCURRENT/COMPLEX
WEEK 3- CONCENTRATED ME
WEEK 4- DELOAD
WEEK 1
THURS TOTAL
C. DB FLOOR PRESS 3x3
SAT,
WEEK 2 CONCURRENT
TUES.
3 RM
BACK WORK
PRESSING VARIATION
SHOULDER WORK
THURS
LOWER BODY STRUCTURED LIKE TUES.
SAT.
4x3 DE WORK
A1.***
A2.***
B1.***
B2.***
C1.***
C2.***
***-POWERBUILDING ROUTINE.
Very unrefined and definitley in it’s early stages. Some thoughts/ideas/suggestions would be nice.
-The Truth
[/quote]
Hey Yoda,
What are your thoughts on high low sequencing?
JS wrote a manuel on it. Sounds very interesting.
-The Truth
[quote]thetruth24 wrote:
Hey Yoda,
What are your thoughts on high low sequencing?
JS wrote a manuel on it. Sounds very interesting.
-The Truth[/quote]
don’t know what it is, I’ll have to get back to you
High low is very similar to what charlie francis uses. Basically you lump all hich CNS stressors on one day and perform low CNS stress activities the next
IE sprints at 100% on one day, the next day do tempo sprints @ 75%
Here is a short list of some high and some low activities
High Intensity
Low intensity
[quote]squattin600 wrote:
High low is very similar to what charlie francis uses. Basically you lump all hich CNS stressors on one day and perform low CNS stress activities the next
IE sprints at 100% on one day, the next day do tempo sprints @ 75%
Here is a short list of some high and some low activities
High Intensity
Low intensity
[/quote]
Makes sense, probably wouldn’t want to do high stress work several days in a row. Doesn’t really seem like a long-term planning approach, more like a way to structure your microcycles.
Hello every one. First I would like to praise all you for greatly intriguing me with this thread, so much so that I have decide to write my first post (which was not supposed to happen until this May, when I was going to post my pictures & share my story along with giving my many thanks to all at T-Nation). With that said I would like to share a bit about myself (considering this is my 1st post on the internet & T-naiton) so you may have a ?face? to relate to. I have been reading T-Nation for appox. 1.25 years. I am currently a sophomore in college. I am currently working on a double major (Physiological & Nutritional Sciences).
Stats for August 2004
Weight: 245 lbs.
Height: 6 feet
Waist: Approx. 40 in. +
Body Fat: Approx 27% +
Stats for November 7, 2005- Began using Westside Barbell Methods, but with no DE days, was basically like Joe Defranco?s template, but I add a REP day for legs.
Weight: 182 lbs.
Height: 6 feet
Waist: 34.5 in.
Body Fat: 15%
Bench Press: 165 lbs.-3 RM
Squat: 235 lbs.-3 RM
Deadlift: 225lbs.-3 RM
Stats for January 9, 2006-Currently on my deload week of my second ?block? or ?wave?= 8 weeks of Westside Barbell Methods, I used DE days instead of REP days.
Weight: 195 lbs.
Height: 6 feet
Waist: 36 in.
Body Fat: Approx 17-18%
Floor Press: 195 lbs.-3 RM / 215 lbs.-1 RM
Box Squat: 265 lbs.-5 RM
Rack Pulls (from a little below the knees): 285lbs.-3 RM / 315-1 RM= went from 255 lbs.-3 RM in just 3 weeks!!!
Now down to business. I recently purchased “High/Low Sequences of Programming and Organizing Training” by James Smith. It is a great manual. James explains and supports many of his theories towards High/Low sequencing (which is a method of programming and organizing training). The manual is geared towards the development of strength/power/speed. He also provides 15 sample Template?s which are geared towards American Football players, but could easily be modified to fit the needs of any athlete needing to develop and/or required to have strength/power/speed within their given sport. It is my opinion that one of the sample templates can easily pay for the price of the book. It shows you (not literally, but gives you the necessary tools for you to formulate and organize your ideas) how to effectively employ Conjugate Sequencing for a given day, week, month, and year/year?s. I must admit I did not fully understand the manual until I read through your posts (including James answers towards thetruth24?s questions, which I thank you for asking him). Now I have begun to see every thing clearly. I will love to share how I plan to use Conjugate Sequencing for the next 12 weeks. I will post my first block by the end of the weekend, hopefully tomorrow.
Just wanted to say that Doc Kreis, the strength coach at UCLA knows/knew (I don’t remember if he’s still alive) Medvedev. Finding that out was very exciting for me.
Hey Fabian,
Thanks for the post. The book looks great, and I plan on purchasing it when i get enough money.
I seems that “blocks” of training are universal in designing any programs and such. Today’s training “hot topic” revolving around the eastern block principles (Conjugate Sequence System, Concurrent/Complex System).
I believe there is a optimal way of integrating these principles and organizing the training means into one’s training regimen, and am still searching for this “rosetta’s stone”.
Between my studies and life, I am still trying organize a system based on the concentrated loading + incorporating the a sequence of linear blocks that ultimatley provide a strong cummulative effect.
I believe James has a “blocks” training manuel in the works, which I believe will help us greatly in this inquest.
Would it be possible for you to provide a sample template from the book, or any training means in which he explains the topics we are discussing? That would be of great help.
Anyway, We’ll be looking forward to your logs.
-The Truth
[quote]Fabian Mares wrote:
Now down to business. I recently purchased “High/Low Sequences of Programming and Organizing Training” by James Smith. It is a great manual. James explains and supports many of his theories towards High/Low sequencing (which is a method of programming and organizing training). The manual is geared towards the development of strength/power/speed. He also provides 15 sample Template?s which are geared towards American Football players, but could easily be modified to fit the needs of any athlete needing to develop and/or required to have strength/power/speed within their given sport. It is my opinion that one of the sample templates can easily pay for the price of the book. It shows you (not literally, but gives you the necessary tools for you to formulate and organize your ideas) how to effectively employ Conjugate Sequencing for a given day, week, month, and year/year?s. I must admit I did not fully understand the manual until I read through your posts (including James answers towards thetruth24?s questions, which I thank you for asking him). Now I have begun to see every thing clearly. I will love to share how I plan to use Conjugate Sequencing for the next 12 weeks. I will post my first block by the end of the weekend, hopefully tomorrow.[/quote]
Hey Yoda,
Damn thats kool. If I remeber correctly, you have access to this “Doc Kreis”?
Keep us updated! Any thoughts and inputs on your dicussion would be great!
-The Truth
[quote]Yoda-x wrote:
Just wanted to say that Doc Kreis, the strength coach at UCLA knows/knew (I don’t remember if he’s still alive) Medvedev. Finding that out was very exciting for me.[/quote]