Comicbook Based Movies

I’ve read very few comics in my life, but have to say that I love the movies based off of them. Many of these seem to be given absolutely awful reviews by traditional comic fans. Basically I’m just curious what some of the problems comic fans have with many of the recent comic to movies are?

Mainly, I’m curious about the Punisher, 'cause I thought it was awesome, but it seems to get horrid reviews by comic fans. As for something like The Hulk…well, it somehow managed to be boring. I’m not sure HOW it managed that feat, but it did.

How about Constantine? I thoroughly enjoyed it and don’t particularly have a problem with Keanu Reeves.

[quote]hedgrinder wrote:
I’ve read very few comics in my life, but have to say that I love the movies based off of them. Many of these seem to be given absolutely awful reviews by traditional comic fans. Basically I’m just curious what some of the problems comic fans have with many of the recent comic to movies are?

Mainly, I’m curious about the Punisher, 'cause I thought it was awesome, but it seems to get horrid reviews by comic fans. As for something like The Hulk…well, it somehow managed to be boring. I’m not sure HOW it managed that feat, but it did.

How about Constantine? I thoroughly enjoyed it and don’t particularly have a problem with Keanu Reeves.[/quote]

Lets address these statements first.

The Punisher: I liked Thomas Jayne (sp) as the Punisher, I liked the building he was in and all the people in it (based on Ennis’s run I think). I was okay with the origin. What I really hated was the location (Miami?) and the villian.

I just think that Travolta couldn’t figure out what type of movie he was in. Overall I thought the movie was pretty fun, almost on par with Blade (which was great).

Constantine I actually liked though I never tried to think of it as a comic book movie. It was just to far away from what I think of when I think of Hellblazer.

Now in general, I love comic books and comic book movies, but the problem with them is the same problem with any known adaptation, readers already have a feel about how the characters ‘should’ act and what the story ‘should’ be. When you walk into a movie with those preconcieved notions, you usually walk out disappointed.

Take for instance, X3. I liked the first and the second and have loved the X-Men for a very long time. But I spent most of that movie thinking about how the Wolverine that I ‘know’ wouldn’t act that way (except for maybe his breaking into the BoM’s camp).

Thats my take on it anyway.

Wait…which Punisher did you mean?

The reason most comic book fans hate these movies is because the producers/directors make movies for people like you. You don’t read the comics, you don’t know the characters, you don’t know the stories, so if they change something, you wouldn’t notice. Or even care.

People like you greatly outnumber comic book fans and when it comes to making movies, the only thing that counts is the box office gross, not appeasing fans. I can count the number of decent adaptations of seen in my lifetime on one hand. The Punisher movie was not one of them. I grew up reading the Punisher and the film version was atrocious.

As for The Hulk, I’m one of the few who liked it.

Uber, i read a bit of comics when I was younger. But what would so bad about Punsisher. I personally want to know. I liked that movie. Kicked ass.

And as for the Hulk movie…I never read a hulk comic for storyline. I wanted to see him fighting Abomination, the Wrecking Crew, or Thor. That’s why that movie was not loved. But the movie looked good, people were just expecting some grand fighting and shit.

And the guy who disliked the X-men 3 movie, what was wrong with how Wolvie acted. Want your opinions. I mainly hated how they were on Logan’s nuts the entire time.

[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Uber, i read a bit of comics when I was younger. But what would so bad about Punsisher. I personally want to know. I liked that movie. Kicked ass.

And as for the Hulk movie…I never read a hulk comic for storyline. I wanted to see him fighting Abomination, the Wrecking Crew, or Thor. That’s why that movie was not loved. But the movie looked good, people were just expecting some grand fighting and shit.

And the guy who disliked the X-men 3 movie, what was wrong with how Wolvie acted. Want your opinions. I mainly hated how they were on Logan’s nuts the entire time.[/quote]

The Punisher chose a good leading actor. What they didn’t do was make it dark enough. It was like they didn’t know whether to make this just for kids or allow it to be much more graphic. the Punisher in the newer graphic novels blows people’s brains all over the place and rips their chin off…all while never even blinking.

He doesn’t care if he dies and usually has a body count matching both World Wars. That was why some fans thought it fell short. It didn’t “suck”, but it wasn’t what it could have been.

The Hulk made sense on film…and I think that alone is where they lost some of the audience. They explained why he alone would survive a gamma radiation blast when all other creatures would die. That NEEDED to be explained to anyone who knew science up to the 11th grade level.

They spent the time doing that and lost the audience that simply wanted to see shit blow up. The bottom line is, action movies usually have very little thought behind them. You blow shit up, kill some people and then let the pieces fall where they may. I don’t think people understood that Banner was the real story…not the Hulk.

I liked the concept, but thought they fell way short with how they made the Hulk look. That child like face fucked everything.

X-Men 3 just ran though and wasted about 20 freaking years of stories and killed people off in 2 seconds who actually had some life in the pages and in the cartoon shows. Spike dead? That’s Storm’s nephew and he dies fighting Wolverine in the woods in 15 seconds? Why?

It was like someone put the faces of all the characters on a bunch of playing cards, shuffled them, and then threw them on the ground. From there, they just randomly chose people to show on screen. Wolverine rips shit up and has blood everywhere in the comics. He’s an animal. He’s the Dirty Harry of the comic book world. When they want someone to find the Hulk and kill him…they go to Wolverine.

However, did we even see blood in these movies? You have three steak knives growing out of each hand and no blood gets anywhere? The whole movie should have been red. It looked great and I WILL buy the DVD, but they completely fucked over some good characters that almost needed their own movie.

Well, that’s what I think.

I thought the Punisher got bad review because it sucked.

[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
I thought the Punisher got bad review because it sucked.[/quote]

Gotta’ love honesty.

I think too many of us comic book fans are “apologists”, in that we think “Well, the mainstream fan would never understand it the way we do…”, so we forgive the shortcomings.

Bullshit. I don’t give a fuck how far “out there” the storyline is, if it’s good, people will buy it. The original Star Wars trilogy, the first two Terminator movies (the second one in particular, because it was so commercially successful), the first Matrix film (let’s not even bring the second two into this), the Lord of the Rings trilogy, the Harry Potter films…

The point is, I don’t give a shit how far “out there” a storyline is. If a story is good, it’s good and people will pay to go see it. Period.

The problem for myself is that I picture the characters a certain way in my mind. The way they say things, their attitude and etc quite often don’t match the Hollywood star they place in the role.

I find my scepticism of the cast often taints the movies. I have enjoyed many of the movies though.

The Hulk was an atrocity though. I don’t know what the hell they were thinking.

The Punisher (Tom Jane version NOT, repeat, NOT the Dolph Lundgren abomination) was a good movie I thought. Yes, not as dark as the comics but very well executed.

Blade was just amazing. I’ve never really recovered from that.

I never liked any of the X-Mens.

Spiderman was good but I dont think Tobey was/is right for the part.

Constantine was good. Keanu seems a pretty good actor when he gets the roles right (Speed was ace).

Daredevil - oh lord strike thee down and smite those involved in thine horrendous production.

Ditto for Elektra.

Ok, I’m gonna say something radical here … the old Flash Gordon movie! I thought it was great. Yeah it was comedic and extremely un-serious but way ahead of the other monstrosities like the Flash (urgh).

Go to the end and see the coming attractions:

I personally don’t think a movie can do a comic much justice. Think of making your favorite tv show into a movie. There’s just too much background info and character interaction to capture in a movie.

I’ll use X-Men for example. Go to marveldatabase and read the background story of some characters. You’ll find that it has changed over time and even their names changed. These stories have developed over 40 plus years and so many new characters and plots have been introduced.

Most people say that the “Phoenix Saga” was bastardized. In short, it was, but if you go to explain the entire story, you’ll have a boring movie. For them to accurately portray this they would have to use 2 or 3 movies and just focus on that individual character. With all the intergalactic travel and space ships, the concept of X-Men would seem to be lost.

What they did is key on the general concept and underlying theme of the story (humans coexisting with mutants) and developed a new story so most our favorite characters could be included. Think about it, we all got excited with the inclusion of the Juggernaut and Colossus, whether we liked them or not in the movie. I can guarantee that when each one of us recognized a character in the movie we got a little excited about it. OK, so Sabretooth was just plain awful, but he was in there and that is what counts for most people.

The great thing about these movies is the we get to see the characters that we grew up with come to life on the big screen and that is how they are making their money.

[quote]CC wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
I thought the Punisher got bad review because it sucked.

Gotta’ love honesty.

I think too many of us comic book fans are “apologists”, in that we think “Well, the mainstream fan would never understand it the way we do…”, so we forgive the shortcomings.

Bullshit. I don’t give a fuck how far “out there” the storyline is, if it’s good, people will buy it. The original Star Wars trilogy, the first two Terminator movies (the second one in particular, because it was so commercially successful), the first Matrix film (let’s not even bring the second two into this), the Lord of the Rings trilogy, the Harry Potter films…

The point is, I don’t give a shit how far “out there” a storyline is. If a story is good, it’s good and people will pay to go see it. Period.

[/quote]

Exactly. And yes the Punisher movie with Thomas Jane sucked fucking ass. What a pile of complete shit. I fucking hated that movie so much I wanted to punish the director. It was made for brain dead 5 year olds. When it should have been the easiest of “superhero” movies to make. Thomas Jane was a great choice but they just made so many bad decisions in this movie. Fuck! :stuck_out_tongue:

My main gripe with most comic book movies is that they change stuff that doesn’t need to be changed. Mainly I think because they imagine that the audience is too stupid to follow the original content. Like in Fantastic Four Doom got his powers from cosmic rays instead of practicing magic and using power armour. Why did this need to be changed? If anything ditch the magic powers and have him use the suit. Nope we have to gayify it. Anyways that’s one example of many.

Batman Begins is how to make a super hero movie.

Yes, I was most definitely referring to the Thomas Jayne version of the Punisher. I agree that it probably should have been a bit more violent. However, I really got the impression he didn’t particularly care about his life. He also did rack up a pretty good body count at the end, and I thought the bit about getting his enemy to kill his own wife and best friend was a nice touch. I get the impression that in the comic, he would’ve just slaughtered em all instead of bothering…and I would have liked that just as much too.

I suppose the reason I asked in the first place is that I can’t seem to get into comics, but I can the movies. Too often they seem to do these alternate universes/different planets/ other realm type stuff that just loses my interest. I can accept Juggernaut as a mutant way easier than all that magical ruby of cyttorak stuff. Don’t ask me why my suspension of disbelief allows Hellboy, or a guy with claws and an adamantium skeleton, but somehow it does. I think this is a pretty common sentiment for the average moviegoer as well.

I hope we can all agree on Sin City as being awesome at least.

A little off from what you guys are discussing, but weren’t they supposed to come out with a Captain America movie as well as Green Lattern? If not, they should at least come out with Captain America and the Avengers, they were the shit.

[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Uber, i read a bit of comics when I was younger. But what would so bad about Punsisher. I personally want to know. I liked that movie. Kicked ass.

And as for the Hulk movie…I never read a hulk comic for storyline. I wanted to see him fighting Abomination, the Wrecking Crew, or Thor. That’s why that movie was not loved. But the movie looked good, people were just expecting some grand fighting and shit.

And the guy who disliked the X-men 3 movie, what was wrong with how Wolvie acted. Want your opinions. I mainly hated how they were on Logan’s nuts the entire time.[/quote]

I thought Thomas Jane was a good choice, although I would have cast someone older. The main problem I have with the movie is that it’s not a good Punisher movie. It felt like they had a script for an action movie already wrote then decided to add “The Punisher” to the title page, just so they could sell it. It lacked the dark and gritty atmosphere which the comic was known for. I’ll refer to adaptations such as The Crow and Sin City to illustrate my point. For an average action film it was ok, but as a Punisher movie it was terrible.

The Hulk (comic and movie) is essentially a re-telling of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. I’m glad they made the movie the way they did. I couldn’t take watching 2 hours of “HULK SMASH!!!”. I need a story to go with the violence. But I do have to say that Hulk fighting the three mutated dogs is one of my favourite actions scenes ever.

For X3, in the comics Wolverine is an animal, in this movie he’s a crying pussy. I seriously hope that the Wolverine movie is rated R.

[quote]uber9 wrote:

For X3, in the comics Wolverine is an animal, in this movie he’s a crying pussy. I seriously hope that the Wolverine movie is rated R.[/quote]

That was ‘sort of’ what I thought. There was just no rage to him. He was moping around most of the movie. The Wolerine of the comics doesn’t mope, he drinks as much as he can and gets into bar fights to vent. He doesn’t sulk, he punches people. By the way, I don’t think that Jackman was the problem, I thought Ratner just doesn’t get the character.

The first Blade movie really broke the mold for Superhero movies.

It proved that adults would pay good money to see a “Mature” comicibased movie.

I’ve never even seen a Blade comic, but I know nobody could be a better badass than Snipes.

[quote]Dirty Tiger wrote:
The first Blade movie really broke the mold for Superhero movies.

It proved that adults would pay good money to see a “Mature” comicibased movie.

I’ve never even seen a Blade comic, but I know nobody could be a better badass than Snipes.[/quote]

The movie took it to a level even the comics hadn’t approached. The comics (from what I’ve seen)now take after the first movie. That is how well it was done.

Am I in the minority in thinking Blade II was superior to Blade I?

[quote]Vash wrote:
Am I in the minority in thinking Blade II was superior to Blade I?[/quote]

I think they were both good. the first Blade just set a standard. I don’t think it even did all that great in the theaters but EVERYONE had the dvd. Had they stuck to what worked for the first two instead of trying to make money off of expanding the story it would have worked for three movies (the initial plan was to make a way for the Nightstalkers, Reynolds and Biel, to have their own movie later if you look at the DVD extras). Hollywood screws up movies once they think a concept will make some money. I hate it when writers sell out like that.

Well, we all have our valid points. But I think we ALL will agree on this:

The Captain America movie kicked ass. Who knew that the Red Skull was Italian??!!