College Learning?

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121

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

Did you take courses during the internship? I am curious how this worked.
[/quote]

After my 2 academic years I did a full time of working in a position related to my field of study. There were no courses but I had weekly assignments I had to submit to my internship counsellor about my position and there was also a large final assignment.[/quote]

Did this experience help? I have read some about companies routinely breaking labor laws in these programs - usually demanding labor beyond what was described in the internship agreement, labor that should have been paid for, according to the courts. From what I hear from students there is pressure to do these because everyone else does but not much identifiable gains from having participated.[/quote]

We have hygiene students come in all of the time and work for free as an internship. I have them do what my other assistants are doing. You can call that free labor if you want, but if you are doing an internship, expect to be put to work doing some of the shit that older employees may not want to do. That’s life.

I could only see someone filing a law suit if they made them do something crazy…like clean the doc’s house, wash his car or pick up his kids.

I think this world is way too sue happy. No one is hiring an intern to sit there and look cute…unless she is REAL cute.[/quote]

Some of it was washing cars. etc. And some was having the interns do work that was well above entry level. Interning through universities is supposed to be a bit more beneficial to the student than the company, student gets some experience and contacts and the company some free labor. The cases that went to court were more the students worked in areas that were normally would have been higher paid labor or doing work that was of no benefit of the student, like washing cars, cleaning, etc. Or students who were supposed to work part-time 20 hours, told they had to work 40.

EDIT: These were generally unpaid if I remember correctly

122

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
And to add, even though I took late classes and slept in when I got the chance, I didn’t have trouble getting to my internship position at 9am every morning 5 days a week.

The belief that taking early classes will somehow better prepare you for work life is utter BS[/quote]

I couldn’t care less about preparing for work life. I see a negative in some guy bullshitting through college and taking way longer to graduate because of it. Yes, that would stand out on a resume. A “4.0” GPA is way less impressive if it took 6 to 8 fucking years to earn it when it takes most focused people 4 or less.

It takes a shit load of course work to get a Biology degree and waiting until 10am for my first class would have insured it took way longer to earn that degree.[/quote]

lol - yeah no shit, I’m not saying avoid early class at the expense of graduating on time.

I just took later classes when it was feasible. It read like Texag was suggesting students who opt for later classes are somehow lazy.

[/quote]

I think X puts my point well. If a student is going to carry a full load (5 or more courses a semester) he/she probably will be taking classes for most of the day and that will include morning courses. Students refusing to take morning courses are probably going to take longer to graduate (trends point to longer time to complete degrees). Given the increasingly rising cost of education, one might think the trend would be to maximize the number of course hours per semester but according to the posted studies, that is not the case. You can chose your own adjective to describe this.

There is a difference between preferring afternoon courses and refusing to take morning courses or courses on Friday.

[/quote]

Yeah I had 8 am classes and I HATED them but it was the only way to get a five course semester done.

I also had 9pm classes on the same days as 9am classes. There was rarely much choosing because it was a challenge to schedule 5 classes including lab times especially with courses that weren’t under the same department. Departments attempted to synchronize their scheduling but it was impossible for each dept to consider all the others.

It was easier for students who only took courses in their major and less classes, of course.

123

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

Did you take courses during the internship? I am curious how this worked.
[/quote]

After my 2 academic years I did a full time of working in a position related to my field of study. There were no courses but I had weekly assignments I had to submit to my internship counsellor about my position and there was also a large final assignment.[/quote]

Did this experience help? I have read some about companies routinely breaking labor laws in these programs - usually demanding labor beyond what was described in the internship agreement, labor that should have been paid for, according to the courts. From what I hear from students there is pressure to do these because everyone else does but not much identifiable gains from having participated.[/quote]

We have hygiene students come in all of the time and work for free as an internship. I have them do what my other assistants are doing. You can call that free labor if you want, but if you are doing an internship, expect to be put to work doing some of the shit that older employees may not want to do. That’s life.

I could only see someone filing a law suit if they made them do something crazy…like clean the doc’s house, wash his car or pick up his kids.

I think this world is way too sue happy. No one is hiring an intern to sit there and look cute…unless she is REAL cute.[/quote]

Some of it was washing cars. etc. And some was having the interns do work that was well above entry level. Interning through universities is supposed to be a bit more beneficial to the student than the company, student gets some experience and contacts and the company some free labor. The cases that went to court were more the students worked in areas that were normally would have been higher paid labor or doing work that was of no benefit of the student, like washing cars, cleaning, etc. Or students who were supposed to work part-time 20 hours, told they had to work 40.

EDIT: These were generally unpaid if I remember correctly[/quote]

Yeah, they don’t get paid here either. I haven’t had any wash my car though…but thanks for the idea.

124

[quote]Professor X wrote:

My point about extra curriculars is that you won’t be playing football if your class ends at 9pm. Hell, you won’t be involved in much school life at all of your classes are that late.

[/quote]

I don’t agree with that at all. Rutger’s has them available all throughout the day, not just after 4 or 5 PM. Rutgers is a Big East school so I never got to play sports outside of intramural leagues, but even those were flexible. Volunteered tutoring among other programs could also be done throughout the day.

125

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

I think X puts my point well. If a student is going to carry a full load (5 or more courses a semester) he/she probably will be taking classes for most of the day and that will include morning courses. Students refusing to take morning courses are probably going to take longer to graduate (trends point to longer time to complete degrees). Given the increasingly rising cost of education, one might think the trend would be to maximize the number of course hours per semester but according to the posted studies, that is not the case. You can chose your own adjective to describe this.

There is a difference between preferring afternoon courses and refusing to take morning courses or courses on Friday.

[/quote]

I agree if the college isn’t offering later courses. But where I went, I believe the last course was offered at 9pm. With offerings that late, you can easily carry a full course load without getting up 7am in the morning. Personally, I think the more flexibility the better. I worked 12 miles off campus at a restaurant so I appreciated the both late and early offerings. But if I had to choose one, it’d be the later option. I started off as an EE major, so I can appreciate what people who took on an 18-21 course load go through.[/quote]

My point about extra curriculars is that you won’t be playing football if your class ends at 9pm. Hell, you won’t be involved in much school life at all of your classes are that late.

I was usually done by 3:30-4 most days and usually tried to schedule a bullshit class that late anyway. That was because I was involved in a lot of shit…from starting my own after school program to help local kids finish homework with tutors while they waited on their parents to sports, band and finally just chilling out late at night. I doubt I went to sleep before 1 o2 all of the way through college.

That is the point we were making about someone who acts like they have the option of not waking up til damn near noon, going to two classes and then fucking around all day. Some bullshit majors may allow that…but employers aren’t blind to some guy half assing his way through school and yes, that would imply a poor work record.

Simply going to class later is not the issue in itself.[/quote]

Thanks, this was my point.

126

here in the UK i do at least 9-5 every day, and have since i was an undergrad (age 17). My housemate is training to be a dental consultant (all ready got an MD now he’s getting some kind of dental masters)and he does at least 9-7 most days.

Our other housemates are getting masters in business or something gay. One of the two seems to take whole weeks off on whims, the other works okishly 10-3.

In the Uk if you do a real degree you work goddamn hard- if you do some bs course you don’t work at all. Most people do bs courses so make the average look bad.

In the US it might be different, but i doubt it.

127

[quote]debraD wrote:

Yeah I had 8 am classes and I HATED them but it was the only way to get a five course semester done.

I also had 9pm classes on the same days as 9am classes. There was rarely much choosing because it was a challenge to schedule 5 classes including lab times especially with courses that weren’t under the same department. Departments attempted to synchronize their scheduling but it was impossible for each dept to consider all the others.

It was easier for students who only took courses in their major and less classes, of course.
[/quote]

Scheduling was a bitch for me too but luckily later on when I had specialized classes they were late. The best specialized IT courses were taught by people in the field, so they always scheduled classes after 7:30 when they were done with their day jobs. Those were the best teachers ever.

128

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

My point about extra curriculars is that you won’t be playing football if your class ends at 9pm. Hell, you won’t be involved in much school life at all of your classes are that late.

[/quote]

I don’t agree with that at all. Rutger’s has them available all throughout the day, not just after 4 or 5 PM. Rutgers is a Big East school so I never got to play sports outside of intramural leagues, but even those were flexible. Volunteered tutoring among other programs could also be done throughout the day. [/quote]

?

I said I created after school programs. That ain’t happening at 10am.

Yes, there may be SOME extra curriculars available at alternate times, but I am talking about shit that looks good on a resume, not basketball for the sake of playing with friends outside of organized sports. That is what grad schools look at along with the GPA.

The guy with the 3.8 who never did shit in school does not equal the same as the guy with a 3.7 but who was quarterback, started his own school programs, was class president or other shit like that.

Again, I would think the guy getting out of class at 9pm would be far less involved like that.

129

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

The issue there is how do you determine pay. Right now teaching pay is insignificant to research pay.[/quote]

Are they proportional to the income derived from them?

Granted, not every researcher is an awesome teacher, and every teacher is not an awesome research/developer, but if their pay is proportional to their value, there really is no reason to fuss.
[/quote]

Income for the university? Or for the student?

How would you determine value?

Well, I would guess most research once published is read by a few dozen people in their field. Teachers can teach 300+ a semester. Which do you think is going to make a bigger impact?

I understand some research leads to significant discoveries/inventions/changes in how we do things. But, behind much of that research are teachers who provided information & guidance that helped the person get there.

I cannot remember if it was Steve Jobs or Bill Gates (I think Jobs, so it is probably Gates) that credits a calligraphy class as being significant to his take on computers.[/quote]

Didn’t like that question, huh?

300 students at $300.00/credit for 3 credits course= $270,000.00/semester. 2 semesters per year, maybe 3 puts the total income for teaching at 540 to 770K . One Professor I know currently makes in the range of 120K/year+ earnings garnered writing textbooks. He’s getting a pretty good percentage of those earnings.

Compared to-

or

Another friend of mine worked at the same university as those two as a chief of his field of medicine. Between his duties as a surgeon and professor, he was also developing new drugs, technologies, and performing speaking engagements and demonstrations of the new technologies worldwide, all of which the institution benefited a great deal from.

It seems to me that the research guys really do earn their keep. Developing and contributing to intellectual property can be extremely lucrative.
[/quote]

It all depends man. If you cure polio, you’re going to get a hell of a lot more grant money than if you’re studying the reproductive cycle of some new species of bacteria only found on Rosie O’Donnels right butt cheek. The former are definitely the exception rather than the rule. Tex Ag is right when he says most research might be seen by a dozen people after its been published.
[/quote]

You’re right, but I’m righter! :slight_smile:
[/quote]

So I guess that leaves me with rightest[/quote]

Actually, with you being the one with the direct experience, I certainly wouldn’t belabor a point beyond casual conversation.

You, in all likely hood, are rightest.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

?

I said I created after school programs. That ain’t happening at 10am.

Yes, there may be SOME extra curriculars available at alternate times, but I am talking about shit that looks good on a resume, not basketball for the sake of playing with friends outside of organized sports. That is what grad schools look at along with the GPA.

The guy with the 3.8 who never did shit in school does not equal the same as the guy with a 3.7 but who was quarterback, started his own school programs, was class president or other shit like that.

Again, I would think the guy getting out of class at 9pm would be far less involved like that.[/quote]

Yeah, in your specific case it wouldn’t be happening. But if were to get involved in tutoring other students you bet they can do that all throughout the day. At a big school, there’s tons of opportunities get involved throughout the entire day. Another example is day care programs with both children and disabled adults. There’s plenty of stuff that can ONLY be done in the morning or early afternoon.

I didn’t do any of that stuff because I didn’t need to for my field. My point is that I was able to enjoy other activities outside of the class that was affiliated with the college.

My issue was about this blanket statement you made:

“My point about extra curriculars is that you won’t be playing football if your class ends at 9pm. Hell, you won’t be involved in much school life at all of your classes are that late.”

There are way to many options available for the above to be true.

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[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

?

I said I created after school programs. That ain’t happening at 10am.

Yes, there may be SOME extra curriculars available at alternate times, but I am talking about shit that looks good on a resume, not basketball for the sake of playing with friends outside of organized sports. That is what grad schools look at along with the GPA.

The guy with the 3.8 who never did shit in school does not equal the same as the guy with a 3.7 but who was quarterback, started his own school programs, was class president or other shit like that.

Again, I would think the guy getting out of class at 9pm would be far less involved like that.[/quote]

Yeah, in your specific case it wouldn’t be happening. But if were to get involved in tutoring other students you bet they can do that all throughout the day. At a big school, there’s tons of opportunities get involved throughout the entire day. Another example is day care programs with both children and disabled adults. There’s plenty of stuff that can ONLY be done in the morning or early afternoon.

I didn’t do any of that stuff because I didn’t need to for my field. My point is that I was able to enjoy other activities outside of the class that was affiliated with the college.

My issue was about this blanket statement you made:

“My point about extra curriculars is that you won’t be playing football if your class ends at 9pm. Hell, you won’t be involved in much school life at all of your classes are that late.”

There are way to many options available for the above to be true.[/quote]

You serious? You must be from Canada. You won’t be playing much football on campus if you have classes til 9pm.

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I’m surprised I’m the only one to comment on prof x’s music career.

133

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Vinnie85 wrote:
went to UF majoring in Industrial eng (insert jokes here about IE not being an actual eng degree)… I coasted to high school no prob (graduated with a weighted gpa of 4.6 and 3.8 unweighted) and my first couple of semesters in college the OP’s 1st post is pretty much a good break down of what i did. Junior year started taking classes relevant to my major (not just gen ed stuff)… Started studying much much more… by my 5th year i was not involved in anything outside of seeing friends every now and then… my last semester was hell…

so in conclusion i agree with Prof X… any technical degree or pre-med track is gonna take work outside of the prodigies… if your major is aligned with the liberal arts colleges then not so much…

also in addition to the learnings i think the social aspect of a dedicated 4 year university (i.e. UF, FSU, non commuter schools, non CC) played a huge impact on the person i am today. being 6 hours away from family u cook, u clean, u take care of ureself… sure mom and dad still fronted some of the bill (got 100% bright futures) for living expenses but even then i took care of myself… in addition to that i really think in those 4 years i matured into a man (yes cliche)… there’s lessons that one learns from being away from home that a person can’t learn when going to a commuter school or a CC. yes i understand i was lucky enough to have parents that could support me, but either way there is a difference between a 4 year college and university of phoenix online… [/quote]

College is what you make it. Yes, we have all heard that before, but I really don’t think most understand what that means.

If you are starting college and you have not researched what your prospective job makes on average per year, how saturated that market is, and the long term success in a field like that, you deserve what you get.

If you are in some major that you KNOW won’t make much money, you have no one to blame when you graduate and remain flat broke or can’t find a job for 5 years.

They had us look into this in high school. By the 11th grade I knew what most jobs I was interested in made per year and was creating five year goals on paper in class. It seems as if most in college don’t even consider this shit until they’ve wasted a few thousand dollars and fucked up their GPA skipping class.

College is not to blame for this. Dumb ass students are to blame for this along with a society that allows people to make it to that age with no thought towards their future.

I went to the library myself and reviewed chapters in textbooks before the professor got to it. That way class was more of a review.

I never for once expected the teacher to hand me everything I needed to know and force feed it to me. I expected them to teach, but I was well aware that the real work was left to me on my own.

Who doesn’t know this?[/quote]

I do, I knew what I wanted before I stepped into college. My majors allow me to go into two of the top 10 paying fields and some of the most under staffed fields in the world.

134

[quote]graudani wrote:
I’m a 3rd year student studying economics and accounting.
My average day:

10 hours of sleep
12 hours relaxing
1 hour at the gym
1 hour of class

I’ll only go to 1 class a day, and I don’t crack open any books, ever. In fact I don’t even study for some of my finals, university is such a joke.

Ps. I go to a school with a well respected econ program.[/quote]

So you’re talking 4 hours of class a semester? That’s not a well respected econ program unless you really think University of Chicago is well respected in the field of economics when it comes to undergrad.

135

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]graudani wrote:
I’m a 3rd year student studying economics and accounting.
My average day:

10 hours of sleep
12 hours relaxing
1 hour at the gym
1 hour of class

I’ll only go to 1 class a day, and I don’t crack open any books, ever. In fact I don’t even study for some of my finals, university is such a joke.

Ps. I go to a school with a well respected econ program.[/quote]

No offense, but those of you only going to one class a day…why post that here as if your schedule is an average day for a college student?

I took 19 hours one semester. Trust me, there was no “10 hour sleeping” going on or 12 hours of relaxing.

If you guys are bullshitting your way through college, OF COURSE you have tons of free time.[/quote]

Economics and Finance

Sleep - <6 hours (6 days/week)
Class - 4.5 hours (4 days/week)
Money - 4 hours (6 days/week)
Misc. - 4 hours (day prep, eating, extra reading, hobbies, &c.)
Study - 3 hours (6 days/week)
Clubs - 2 hours (5 days/week)
Train - 1 hour (6 days/week)
Telev - .5 hour (6 days/week)

If everyone has all this time in the world, I wanna know where they find it. And, how college is a “joke.” I can’t wait until I go to my masters program and I only have 9 credits a semester. I have no clue what a masters program is like, but I am sure it ain’t no joke.

If everyone

136

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I was out of college by 21.[/quote]

Bastard! I unno, lazy motherfuckers I guess. I plan on getting my ug and masters in 5 years, maybe 5.5, but we’ll see.

137

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

My point about extra curriculars is that you won’t be playing football if your class ends at 9pm. Hell, you won’t be involved in much school life at all of your classes are that late.

[/quote]

I don’t agree with that at all. Rutger’s has them available all throughout the day, not just after 4 or 5 PM. Rutgers is a Big East school so I never got to play sports outside of intramural leagues, but even those were flexible. Volunteered tutoring among other programs could also be done throughout the day. [/quote]

?

I said I created after school programs. That ain’t happening at 10am.

Yes, there may be SOME extra curriculars available at alternate times, but I am talking about shit that looks good on a resume, not basketball for the sake of playing with friends outside of organized sports. That is what grad schools look at along with the GPA.

The guy with the 3.8 who never did shit in school does not equal the same as the guy with a 3.7 but who was quarterback, started his own school programs, was class president or other shit like that.

Again, I would think the guy getting out of class at 9pm would be far less involved like that.[/quote]

Hell, being a president of one club and having a 3.2 GPA is better than 3.8 and not doing anything. Being an officer in multiple clubs, have double majors, and having anything above 3.0 is like a God send now a days to masters programs. Motherfuckers make it easy on me by being lazy. But, I’m still getting this done as quick as I can.

138

[quote]therajraj wrote:
I’m surprised I’m the only one to comment on prof x’s music career.[/quote]

I asked if he sung Gospel, he didn’t answer. I think he’s still upset about the rap comment.

139

as far as involvement goes i was heavily involved in my soph and junior year and tapered off later on. by my 5th year i was pretty much a hermit… in the eng field experience means everything. the involvement helped me get my foot in the door for my first internship and that later lead to a job…

140

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

If everyone has all this time in the world, I wanna know where they find it. And, how college is a “joke.” I can’t wait until I go to my masters program and I only have 9 credits a semester. I have no clue what a masters program is like, but I am sure it ain’t no joke.

If everyone [/quote]

In my experience, Masters was easier. It might be because I got to take course that were more applicable to my field and that I was more interested in. You’re also given more independence by the professors. ie They give you more respect and treat you more like an adult.