Hi CT.
I’m currently on a EOD full body hypertrophy program.
I go to failure on every isolation exercise and 1-3 reps shy in compounds. 5-8 hard sets per bodypart per workout.
Strength and size gains have been good but I’ve been having heart palps lately and chest tightness before sleeping and I would wake up in the middle of the night with an annoying sound inside my head. I would usually only be able to sleep again 1-2 hours afterwards. This happens almost every night.
I went to the doctor who said everything was fine and that it was probably just anxiety.
I also noticed lowered sex drive lately and increased water retention, so I’ve been thinking the cause might be too much training.
I’m currently natural but I had the same symptoms last year when I used testosterone (only more intense). I thought these were estrogenic side effects but now I think it might be just because I was overpushing it at the gym “I’m on steroids so I can train as much as I want”.
Please tell me if you think CNS fatigue/overreaching could cause these issues, and what are other symptoms to look for ?
Thanks.
Hi @Minutia,
This is most likely an issue caused by chronically overproducing cortisol and adrenaline.
Heart palpitations, chest tightness, buzzing or ringing in the ears, lowered sex drive, increased water retention and a drop in sleep quality are all symptoms of a body that’s overtaxed from not being able to get out of a sympathetic state.
EOD full body with the RPE you described seems fairly balanced and, under normal conditions, shouldn’t cause issues with CNS fatigue. I am assuming though that by 5-8 sets per bodypart per workout, you are taking compound movements into consideration where you’re training multiple bodyparts at once and are including these sets as working sets in your body part count. You should rarely go above 6 exercises in a workout, even if it’s full body. The only exception I can think of is during an hypertrophy program that uses a volume step loading approach and even then it’s not ideal if your recovery potential from training is low or average.
Training can become a problem if your nutrition, sleep and leisure activities/other lifestyle factors are not supporting the recovery demands of your training.
What I mean is that your training regimen is not always the main issue or the deciding factor. It actually takes a lot of physical work for someone to be really overtrained. More often than not, it is an issue with diet or stress management that causes problems with CNS fatigue because not getting enough quality nutrients in (to support recovery but also to be able to function in general) and dealing with a lot of stressors (financially, relationships, mentally etc.) affects sleep quality and sleep quality affects recovery and daily performance.
Based on your symptoms my suggestion would be to work on improving serotonin first by adding enough carbs in the diet, especially post-workout and in the evening to support sleep. If your diet does not allow much carbs, put all your carbs at the end of the day or eat meat that has tryptophan like chicken, turkey etc. You can also take a supplement like 5-htp to support serotonin production. Eat lots or fiber rich foods because fiber is important for gut health and the gut is heavily involved in the uptake and production of serotonin, which is a precursor for melatonin by the way.
Analyze your entire training week (not just training sessions but also other physical activities that you’re doing outside of the gym) and check if your nutrition and lifestyle supports the demands of the amount of activity that you’re doing.
If you’re currently training to lose fat, I would strongly recommend that the deeper you get into your diet, the more carbs you introduce either by swapping out fats for carbs or by increasing your NEAT (if possible). Carbs are one of the best solutions to counteract an overproduction of cortisol. If you are a strong believer in Keto or don’t want to eat more carbs, focus on investing time in activities that have meditative qualities. Ideally before bed to allow your nervous system to switch to parasympathetic mode so your brain can unwind for a restful night of sleep.
If you want more specific feedback on how to dial in nutrition, sleep and training based on your current state of wellbeing, I recommend you visit my profile and look up topics where I discuss the delicate relationship between nutrition, training, sleep and stress management.
I’m sure you will find helpful answers there.
Hey Lou.
I appreciate the thorough answer.
I eat on average 3500kcal with 400g carbs per day.
Workouts usually last 3 hours but that’s mostly because I take longer rest periods and the gym is very crowded
A typical workout would be:
-3 tri-sets of leg exts/leg curls/calves
-2x8 squat
-3x6 weighted chins
-3x8-10 hammer curl
-5x8-12 seated curl
-3x8-12 db bench
-3x8-12 low to high crossovers
-3x6-10 dumbbell pullover (triceps)
-5x10-15 side laterals
-2 heavy sets of trap bar farmers walk
I definitely feel like I lost my ability to relax. Even in a super tired state I still feel amped up. By the way last time I measured my natural TT it came out at 1064 ng/dl so I was thinking I might be able to handle a relatively higher workload.
My job is teaching maths which obviously involves lots of mental effort.
I do have a bit of an unusual addiction though: spending hours with earphones listening to loud music. Maybe that’s jacking up my adrenaline ?
Anyway a deload week is due, I’m feeling like complete garbage right now, exhausted, irritable and unable to sleep.
Dude, even if you were to count the trisets as 3 sets total (which it is not, it’s actually 9 sets because each exercise targets a different muscle), you’d still have 32 WORK sets. That’s not even taking into account the 1 or 2 warmup sets you’re probably doing before your worksets. That type of volume should only be done in the last phase of an hypertrophy plan after a slow, cyclical build up in sets with planned deloads. Or by someone who’s on drugs with a great capacity to recover because being on drugs does not automatically mean you can do a ton of volume.
Also, if I’m being honest, you might want to rethink your exercise selection. Right now it looks like you are throwing in every exercise you can in fear of missing out on a certain muscle group. I’m counting 12 exercises. While the bulk of the workout consists of isolation exercises, the sheer volume will still create a lot of fatigue and local/systemic inflammation.
Instead, pick exercises that fit your body proportions (Tom Sheppard has written a great article on body proportions and exercise selection, you can read it for free on thibarmy or t nation) and goal. It’s OK if you want to focus more on certain muscle groups by throwing in more volume for them but pick only 2 muscle groups per training phase. In the next phase you can pick other muscle groups to specialize on whilst keeping a base of compound lifts at the beginning of your workouts. Or you can use a more balanced approach where you do your 3 compound lifts followed by 2-3 isolation exercises that target 2 muscle groups.
You’re using a full body split so there’s no point in trying to get enough volume in for each body part per workout. Your muscles will get hit 3 times a week (at least indirectly) anyway so it’s more efficient to spread out the volume of each muscle group over the entire week. Not only will you save time but you’ll also train more effectively because after like an hour and 30 minutes, your nervous system is just not that efficient anymore at recruiting your muscle fibers, especially the growth prone FT fibers.
A smart way to set up your full body workouts, while adhering to the principles above could be:
1) Specialized (for example biceps and triceps are the target muscles):
Mon:
A) Compound squat variation: e.g. BB back squat
B) Compound push variation e.g. BB bench press
C) Compound pull variation e.g. Chinups medium neutral grip
D) Triceps isolation exercise
E1) Biceps isolation exercise
E2) Biceps isolation exercise
Wed:
A) Compound hinge variation: e.g. BB romanian deadlift
B) Compound push variation: e.g. BB overhead press on a 70°-80° bench to still get upper chest
C) Compound pull variation: e.g. Cable or machine rowing variation to target mid back/traps
D) Biceps isolation exercise
E1) Triceps isolation exercise
E2) Triceps isolation exercise
Fri:
A) Compound squat variation: e.g. BB front squat
B) Compound push variation: e.g. Decline close grip bench press
C) Compound pull variation: e.g. Chinup variation or rowing variation depending on what part of back needs more work
D) Triceps isolation exercise
E1) Biceps isolation exercise
E2) Biceps isolation exercise
Do 3-5 worksets with RPE 8-9 on your compound lifts and 2-3 worksets with RPE 9-10 on your isolation exercises. Off course this is just an example of how you can structure your workouts when using a full body approach with a specialization for bi’s and tri’s. The exercises for the compound lifts can vary depending on your body proportions and goals but the structure and order of the exercises should not change that much. Now, sometimes it is a good idea to start with an isolation exercise for a muscle group that you want to develop. That’s fine but don’t start with something like a triset unless you’re doing it for a specific purpose. The workout structure would also look very different when using that approach. Also, I used mon, wed, fri as an example but you can totally train on other days too. Just make sure to adhere to the EOD principle and leave rest days in between training days.
2) Balanced (you still do your compound lift variations but the isolation exercises will be oriented towards emphasizing a certain body part for each workout):
Mon:
A) Compound squat variation: e.g. BB back squat
B) Compound push variation e.g. BB bench press
C) Compound pull variation e.g. Chinups medium neutral grip
D) Legs isolation exercise
E1) Legs isolation exercise
E2) Legs isolation exercise
Wed:
A) Compound hinge variation: e.g. BB romanian deadlift
B) Compound push variation: e.g. BB overhead press on a 70°-80° bench to still get upper chest
C) Compound pull variation: e.g. Cable or machine rowing variation to target mid back/traps
D) Chest isolation exercise
E1) Back isolation exercise
E2) Back isolation exercise
Fri:
A) Compound squat variation: e.g. BB front squat
B) Compound push variation: e.g. Decline close grip bench press
C) Compound pull variation: e.g. Chinup variation or rowing variation depending on what part of back needs more work
D) Shoulders isolation exercise
E1) Shoulders isolation exercise
E2) Traps isolation exercise
I used mainly bb exercises for the compound lifts but you can also choose (smith) machine variations. I prefer doing machine variations when I’m training for hypertrophy or fatloss. The reasons why I prefer using machines over bb’s is because I reduce the neurological demands of the workouts which allows me to do a bit more volume and I can increase mechanical tension and fiber recruitment on the target muscle(s) because I have increased neural drive due to decreased stability demands.
3500 kcals is not low but it’s still relative to your personal body stats like height, weight and metabolism. A 200 pound individual who needs this amount of energy to maintain his BW will be different from a 135 pound individual who eats the same amount of calories and has trouble to maintain his BW. Calorie intake is only relevant when it is adjusted to your current goal (losing weight, maintaining, gaining or strength qualities like power, maximal strength, strength endurance etc.).
Also, keep in mind that not all carb sources are equal. All of them will lower cortisol for sure, but some of them can actually increase systemic inflammation to a higher degree. Think stuff like bread, pasta and other sources of (heavily) processed carb rich foods. The smarter choice would be to get the bulk of your carbs from fruits and vegetables because these foods are stuffed with vitamins, minerals, fiber and phytochemical compounds that have a shit ton of antioxidants to neutralize all the free radicals and oxidative stress that’s occuring during either local or systemic inflammation.
The inflammatory proces does play an important role in muscle building but is it chronic low grade inflammation that you need to look out for. Your immune system uses up a lot of energy to counteract this type of inflammation which leaves less fuel for other bodily functions.
To compensate for this lack of energy your body will start producing more adrenaline to maintain performance, both physically and mentally but the improvements are short lived because you will develop beta-adrenergic desensitization, which means your cells respond less and less to your own adrenaline. As a teacher, this could be especially problematic because you need to be able to think clearly and stay motivated to engage in tasks that are challenging you cognitively.
Well, it’s not good for your ears that’s for sure. If it relaxes you, you will not spike cortisol or adrenaline but it all depends on the nature of the song(s) you’re listening too. If the music gives you a rush of energy because you’re visualizing yourself doing things that you would consider heroic of very alpha like, then yes it can spike adrenaline.
These are definitely clear signs that you need a break. It’s perfectly OK to take a full week off from the gym. Heck, you could even take 2 weeks off. As long as you remain somewhat active and don’t to something stupid like a 5 day fast or something, you won’t lose muscle. Instead you could spend more time on other projects that you have an interest in or you could work on things that will improve future performance like mobility work, cardio (not excessively) etc.
Thanks for the detailed answer.
In fact you are right all along. Taking a week off has done wonders for my mental health and sleep.
I’m trying to redesign a mesocycle with a focus on legs, as I have a superficial labrum tear that I’m planning to treat.
I plan on doing the following today, keeping about 3 reps in the tank and adding more weight/reps as the weeks go on.
|Leg curl |4x6|
|BB back squat| 3x8||
|Leg ext|3x12-15|
|Calves|3x12-15|
|DB Bench|3x8-12|
|Cable row|3x8-12|
|Hammer curl|3x6-10|
I’m just afraid I won’t be doing enough for each muscle group. For example, I know from experience that my arms barely get any stimulation from pulls and presses (except the lateral head of the triceps). Even on my previous program, I didn’t feel like any particular muscle was overtaxed, just systemic fatigue. I’m wondering if supplements like glycine actually make a difference to lessen system fatigue so maybe I can aim for more overall volume without burning out in the future.
Thanks again for the help.
That’s literally 5-6 times the volume I’m doing in my own workouts. That is literally stupid high volume for anybody, which is even worse for someone with chronic fatigue.
My reasoning was that I needed to do 10-20 work sets per bodypart per week so I did 4-8 sets per bodypart per workout, 3 times a week. Didn’t account for the systemic fatigue.
I got very little stress going on in my life normally and high natural T so I figured I could get away with that much volume. In fact I added 2 clean pounds with this program in 6 weeks and my waist stayed the same size, but yeah, I was going crazy near the end.
I’m starting over using @lou_smeets recommendations and might progressively add more volume if I can recover.
10-20 worksets for EACH BODY PART is not excessive except when using a full body approach. You just cannot hope to achieve that amount of volume for each muscle group because the total workout volume of EACH SESSION would be too great. You may do something like 10-15 worksets for the big muscle groups over the whole week but the volume for the smaller muscle groups needs to be lower to make sure you’re not exceeding 20-25 ish max worksets per workout.
You may have gotten away with that but we all get older and there will come a time (like you have experienced recently) when you cannot recover from that amount of work IN A SINGLE SESSION anymore.
You body basically gave you a clear warning. You can however get a similar amount of volume done in a week but use a different split. One that would be more appropriate is upper/lower/whole body or modified push/pull done 3 times a week (doing push or pull twice a week depending on personal preference/needs).
Otherwise it would be best to stick with the full body exercise structure I mentioned above. Btw, the examples I gave you are actually based on the programs I bought from CT for my own body comp goals.
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