"Is this considered a side effect?" - /r/WTF (+1541) [January 26, 2010] - Imgur
I’d bring her home to meet my mom.
sometimes you dont get second chances
Hope it’s fake for those kids sake.
Haha, I’m taking clomiphene citrate (the generic version of Clomid) right now, since it fixes excess aromatization in males. I better stay away from black guys until I get off it, or else I’m gonna end up a lot more confused than that woman.
[quote]Xab wrote:
Haha, I’m taking clomiphene citrate (the generic version of Clomid) right now, since it fixes excess aromatization in males. I better stay away from black guys until I get off it, or else I’m gonna end up a lot more confused than that woman.[/quote]
Technically it just binds to the estrogen receptors in the breasts so estrogen cant bind, thus preventing gyno. What youre describing is an aromatase inhibitor. If you actually suffer from naturally high E2 levels you should probably have a chat with your doc about the differences between the two types of drugs.
Not only in the breast but also the hypothalamus and pituitary and other estrogen receptors as well. But your general point is of course correct.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Not only in the breast but also the hypothalamus and pituitary and other estrogen receptors as well. But your general point is of course correct.[/quote]
Thanks for the clarification. I shouldn’t have said ‘just’ and I wasn’t exactly sure of the extent of it’s activity and was too lazy to look it up.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]Xab wrote:
Haha, I’m taking clomiphene citrate (the generic version of Clomid) right now, since it fixes excess aromatization in males. I better stay away from black guys until I get off it, or else I’m gonna end up a lot more confused than that woman.[/quote]
Technically it just binds to the estrogen receptors in the breasts so estrogen cant bind, thus preventing gyno. What youre describing is an aromatase inhibitor. If you actually suffer from naturally high E2 levels you should probably have a chat with your doc about the differences between the two types of drugs. [/quote]
Really? I did a few searches and it appears to be recognized as an AI. I haven’t had blood work done since taking it, so I don’t know for sure if it’s working, and my urologist’s specialty is testosterone replacement and increasing T levels where necessary. Do you perhaps have a citation? If I’m on the wrong drug I would certainly like to know and get it fixed!
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Not only in the breast but also the hypothalamus and pituitary and other estrogen receptors as well. But your general point is of course correct.[/quote]
Oh… so am I on the wrong medication? The thinking was I was having a high level of aromatization since my lutenizing hormone level was considered high, even though my T level hovers between 200-300 ng/dl and my E2 levels are 60-70. Like I said though, I haven’t had a blood test done since being on it these past two months, so I don’t yet know if it’s working.
You can just do a google search and clearly see that clomid is a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM).
It may help raise T levels by stimulating LH but it absolutely will not prevent aromatization.
Maybe you’re confusing the term ‘anti-estrogen’ (a shitty term IMO) with AI?
For a an explanation specific to this situation check out the write up Bill did on it at Mesomorphosis.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
You can just do a google search and clearly see that clomid is a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM).
It may help raise T levels by stimulating LH but it absolutely will not prevent aromatization.
Maybe you’re confusing the term ‘anti-estrogen’ (a shitty term IMO) with AI?
[/quote]
I do understand the difference between the two terms, I just thought clomiphene WAS an AI. I have a follow up with the doctor in a few days, so I guess I’ll get some blood work and know for sure then. I had expected a bigger change in my mood and training ability… perhaps this is why I didn’t experience that.
[quote]Xab wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
You can just do a google search and clearly see that clomid is a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM).
It may help raise T levels by stimulating LH but it absolutely will not prevent aromatization.
Maybe you’re confusing the term ‘anti-estrogen’ (a shitty term IMO) with AI?
[/quote]
I do understand the difference between the two terms, I just thought clomiphene WAS an AI. I have a follow up with the doctor in a few days, so I guess I’ll get some blood work and know for sure then. I had expected a bigger change in my mood and training ability… perhaps this is why I didn’t experience that. [/quote]
Yea 60 is really high for a young (I assume) man’s E2 level. I believe Bill suggests having E2 in the mid-low 20s for optimal well being.
Look into anastrozole, brand name Arimidex and/or letrozole, brand name Femara. Those are the commonly used AI’s. Anastrozole is a bit easier to use because it’s not as powerful.
[quote]Xab wrote:
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Not only in the breast but also the hypothalamus and pituitary and other estrogen receptors as well. But your general point is of course correct.[/quote]
Oh… so am I on the wrong medication? The thinking was I was having a high level of aromatization since my lutenizing hormone level was considered high, even though my T level hovers between 200-300 ng/dl and my E2 levels are 60-70. Like I said though, I haven’t had a blood test done since being on it these past two months, so I don’t yet know if it’s working.[/quote]
Is your current doctor in fact experienced and knowledgeable in this area?
I understand that he may never have said that Clomid is an anti-aromatase: I’m not attributing that to him.
However, when LH level is high yet testosterone is low, this indicates – but does not prove, as a single LH test is not very reliable – that the problem is primary hypogonadism. In other words, the testes are getting the proper signal to make testosterone, but enough testosterone is not being produced.
When this is the case, possibly increasing LH yet further with a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) such as Clomid is unlikely to give a major improvement in testosterone production.
So I have to wonder whether he knows what he is doing.
I would see what happens when using an anti-aromatase and finding a dose that brings estradiol down to the low end of the normal range. If this isn’t sufficient to give you good testosterone levels, then T replacement, preferably in combination with HCG (for example 500 IU 3x/week) and an antiaromatase, would be called for.
I do want to emphasize that it can’t yet be concluded that the problem is primary hypogonadism. As it’s an unusual result for LH to actually be high when estradiol is high, it could very well be that the particular measurement taken was at a momentary high point and not reflective of the average.
LH levels fluctuate rapidly, so any single measurement is not necessarily representative of the average across the day.
Oh, and in terms of mood, with Clomid the only direction of mood change if there is any is towards the estrogen-y.
I was going to say. What, three black babies that don’t know who thier daddy is? As a joke. Except that would sound racist, and I’M NOT, so I’ll just say “SLUT!”
I love it when people blame chemicals for their problems.
Chemicals are only capable of doing what they’re supposed to at a certain dosage.
People, on the other hand…