Clean vs Dirty

The main problem with fructose comes when people eat high fructose corn syrup, which I don’t think a lot of us are doing, but I like to look at the optimal level. Fruit is GOOD, but when fructose exceeds 25 grams a day (aside from liver glycogen replenishment post workout) it STARTS to show all the negative issues that you will find in a search for fructose 25 grams. I actually underestimated the ideal level for fruit though. I had stated that depending upon the fruit you could get 200-300 cals from fruit before hitting 25 grams of fructose, but actually you can generally get 200-300 SUGAR cals from fruit before you hit that level. That would be about 4-5 servings of most fruit, 4 bananas for example.

As for carbs, I feel like I ate my carbs for the day, and here is the carb total: 2 tomatos (8 grams), 1 1/2 servings of rice (62 grams), 1 large pear (32 grams) , 8 grams in a protein shake 7 grams in oysters, 6 grams in collard greens, 7 grams in onions and 4 grams in carrots. That’s 134 grams of carbs today and it felt like a lot.

I also had a 2 tablespoons of butter, 4 tablespoons of coconut oil, 4 tablespoons of olive oil, 20 grams from cheese, 10 grams from shrimp and oysters, that’s 130 grams of fat, 177 protein and 134 carbs. That’s 48% from fat.

I’m not going through a bunch of literature. School takes my life too much. But just one

David Wang, D., Sievenpiper, J. L., de Souza, R. J., Cozma, A. I., Chiavaroli, L., Ha, V., … & Jenkins, D. J. (2014). Effect of fructose on postprandial triglycerides: A systematic review and meta-analysis of controlled feeding trials. Atherosclerosis, 232(1), 125-133.

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I’m not going through a bunch of literature. School takes my life too much. But just one

David Wang, D., Sievenpiper, J. L., de Souza, R. J., Cozma, A. I., Chiavaroli, L., Ha, V., … & Jenkins, D. J. (2014). Effect of fructose on postprandial triglycerides: A systematic review and meta-analysis of controlled feeding trials. Atherosclerosis, 232(1), 125-133.[/quote]

This was interesting, although it looks like an unbiased meta analysis done on a bunch of studies that themselves have a likelyhood of being biased (since there is really no one out there paying to prove that Fructose is bad).

Another thing, it is like saying that triglycerides are good as long as you burn as many as you make each day. If you eat fructose, it replenishes liver glycogen, and then can go into blood sugar, or triglycerides, so as long as you use up x amount of liver glycogen and triglycerides each day, no problem? You still may have triglyceride spikes during the day, and there is a suggestion in some literature that it is not the triglycerides themselves, but the possibility that triglycerides coming from fructose are particularly problematic. If a certain amount of your triglycerides are coming from fructose, then the relative proportion in the blood will be higher over time.

I have said that fructose is fine to reload liver glycogen, although I’ve seen studies that the fasted reload rate comes from about 1/3 fructose. Don’t forget also that the sucrose that was being replaced in some of these studies is acting 1/2 as fructose anyway, and causing insulin issues. So maybe fructose just isn’t any WORSE than other sugars.

I personally want to mention that I am a learner. I have a master’s in ex phys but have not done anything in practice for over 18 years now so most of what I know is from reading.

I experiences great improvement in health and body composition when I cut carbs to 150 grams a day, around 150 grams of protein, and let the rest come from fat (more or less depending on whether I was trying to reduce fat), and then adding 300-600 cals from about 75% carbs, 25% protein on training days, depending on intensity.

But I have found recent success with 1-3 carb loading days a week-basically renewed fat loss.

Anyway, I keep total carbs at 150, sugars at 75 on non-training days, and that basically means that I am going to get 25 grams of effective fructose max. I also cut omega 6s to 7 grams a day, and greatly reduced wheat and legumes.

What is your take on omega 6s, and gluten? Maybe its just the gluten reduction that is preventing my sinus inflammation that used to keep me from sleeping, and really was the root of my higher bodyfat before (I would wake up and have to eat to go to sleep).

Maybe it was inflammation from higher omega 6s, or maybe it was sugar, though I never had any blood sugar abnormalities, just visceral fat, of which I’ve lost 6 inches off my waist. I started sleeping better immediatly within a day or two of making these changes, and when I do eat wheat, or more carbs in general I have woken up sometimes.

Saying that fructose is fine as long as your energy balance is kept for the day is like saying you wont suffer effects from alcohol as long as your daily consumption matches what the body can dispose of in 24 hours. Fructose also reacts with proteins and PUFA’s to produce advanced glycation end products which cause oxidative damage to cells. Its not the amount of triglycerides, but how the proportion of advanced glycation end products are present in triglycerides.

Fructose also may produce imbalances in gut flora which favors pathogens. It also causes leptin resistance and it is a favorable energy source for cancer cells. So really the “energy balance” point is based on a strawman proposition that elevated triglycerides are the putative problem with fructose.

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Saying that fructose is fine as long as your energy balance is kept for the day is like saying you wont suffer effects from alcohol as long as your daily consumption matches what the body can dispose of in 24 hours. Fructose also reacts with proteins and PUFA’s to produce advanced glycation end products which cause oxidative damage to cells. Its not the amount of triglycerides, but how the proportion of advanced glycation end products are present in triglycerides.

Fructose also may produce imbalances in gut flora which favors pathogens. It also causes leptin resistance and it is a favorable energy source for cancer cells. So really the “energy balance” point is based on a strawman proposition that elevated triglycerides are the putative problem with fructose. [/quote]
So your take home message would be “don’t eat more than 2-3 serves of fruit a day”?

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[quote]theBird wrote:

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Saying that fructose is fine as long as your energy balance is kept for the day is like saying you wont suffer effects from alcohol as long as your daily consumption matches what the body can dispose of in 24 hours. Fructose also reacts with proteins and PUFA’s to produce advanced glycation end products which cause oxidative damage to cells. Its not the amount of triglycerides, but how the proportion of advanced glycation end products are present in triglycerides.

Fructose also may produce imbalances in gut flora which favors pathogens. It also causes leptin resistance and it is a favorable energy source for cancer cells. So really the “energy balance” point is based on a strawman proposition that elevated triglycerides are the putative problem with fructose. [/quote]
So your take home message would be “don’t eat more than 2-3 serves of fruit a day”?

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I don’t know the size of a serving, but 300-400 cals from fruit is a good guideline I think. I originally said 200-300, but you are getting some starches in there too. 50-75 grams of sugar from fruits will put you around 25 grams of fructose. And my best estimate would also be that you could add about 10 grams of fructose per hour of exercise.