new zealand is an independent country. there is some provision in australia’s constitution or something like that for new zealand to be part of australia (it is considered one of the australian states in there) and the aussies have offered. don’t think nz will ever accept, though.
i tried to find a youtube vid i found once, but i can’t. there are lots of vids of ‘hang clean’ but they are all hang power-cleans.
there seem to be two ways of thinking of transitioning from power moves to the full moves.
the first is that you simply will drop under when the weights get too heavy to pull properly. i’ll admit i haven’t seen anybody make amazing gains with this strategy.
the second is that dropping under is different enough to need to be taught distinctly. often people do find that the power versions of the lifts are so different from this that it is better if they stop doing the power moves altogether. (though perhaps returning to work parts of the pull later as needed).
instead of thinking that the aim of the pull is to pull it as high as you can… (so it lands on your delts without much of a squat under)… think of it as being about only pulling the bar as high as needed for a perfect catch position. in this case, high enough for you to fit your ass down under it if you move quickly under after the hip drive. that is where you want to pull it every rep.
it is a bit tricky to pull weights ONLY as high as needed when you are perfectly capable of pulling them much higher. you need to be sure to finish the pull (drive your hips properly before pulling yourself under the bar) - a lot of people (including myself) tend to stop finishing the pull in order to descend under. but you also need to learn the muscle control to do this at reduced force (so you don’t take your face off with the bar).
it can be done. i can still powerclean significantly more than i can squat clean. this is because i can still powerclean significantly more than i can front squat. i don’t powerclean anymore, though, only work my squat cleans. you will have trouble catching in an upright position if you have trouble front squatting in an upright position. how is your front squat looking?
re: the frog stance, IMO it is not so much the stance that matters, but flaring the knees out. an example is Andrei Aramnau. When he lifts, his toes are actually pointing straight forward (and are about shoulder-width apart more or less), but his knees go way out.
my front squat is… well not good. i can back squat 120kg on a good day but my front squat (which i’ve only been practicing for about 4 weeks) is at about 70kg. i will try to take a snapshot of one of my powercleans to see how high the bar is when i finish the pull. i know what you mean by taking your face off - 3 or 4 weeks ago i almost knocked myself over backwards powercleaning 75kg. i just pulled too hard and it got me right in the throat.
The thing about oly lifts is… although you hear be EXPLOSIVE and fast… if you try to do it like that when you are still new you end up with a technique similar to yours and even prone to injuries.
Glenn Pendlay says(and I agree like almost anyone will) first you need to get to every position right, then you need to find the correct tempo and THEN you speed it up and up until its done as fast as possible. And to be honest I think the last one just happens slowly over a VERY long time. I don’t think anyone except the very top lifters really put maximum force throughout the whole lift.
Right now you are bending your arms and probably cutting the pull short as well as throwing the bar around and not catching it in a correct position. You may be kind of fast this way but… it doesn’t even matter at this point.
And also, stop back squats almost entirely. Right now you need to get your front squat up to 100 at least before you start back squatting again. Take a video of you back and front squatting as well, there might be something wrong about it that’s keeping you back in the front squat
my front squat is… well not good. i can back squat 120kg on a good day but my front squat (which i’ve only been practicing for about 4 weeks) is at about 70kg. i will try to take a snapshot of one of my powercleans to see how high the bar is when i finish the pull. i know what you mean by taking your face off - 3 or 4 weeks ago i almost knocked myself over backwards powercleaning 75kg. i just pulled too hard and it got me right in the throat.
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You need to hammer your FS up mate. You have no right to C&J 100k+ if you can barely FS it for 3 reps. Don’t let your FS hold you back. Smash your FS up and hammer te full lifts. Ditch PC weights.
learn to pull to mid thigh with say 60-70kg. Do it smoothly for motor pattern learning. Once it’s more ingrained then start to move it faster and faster, as long as your technique holds.
Do the full lifts with heavier then 55. Say 65-70, take videos, post. You’ll find a weight where your technique fits it properly. If you Power Clean it and ride it down, it’s too heavy. Get to a weight where your comfortable going fast and then build up. Depending no how ballsy proficient you are the faster you can ramp up the weights. But as soon as you PC it and ride it down, it’s too heavy.
Once you get how to get under big weights you can hammer it and smash it up. Otherwise you’ll be forever stuck not being able to Cn properly.
Should shoulders be in front/over the bar even at the explosion point? I thought they stayed over it and once you pass the knee they start to come back and at the end of the pull they are at the natural position that they are when… you are just… doing nothing!
Should shoulders be in front/over the bar even at the explosion point? I thought they stayed over it and once you pass the knee they start to come back and at the end of the pull they are at the natural position that they are when… you are just… doing nothing![/quote]
I prefer to coach my lifters to stay over the bar longer and to do the hang stuff over the bar and not bolt upright like in the video.
transition to full extension and to get under the bar is the number one hardest thing for a new lifter to do well, worse for a person who has only PC and never been taught to full clean properly
I feel that if they start upright that they would not stay over the bar enough when doing the lifts from the floor
But note I’d rather not teach the hang stuff if I do not have to. Most of my lifters don’t need to do the hang stuff. I just coach them to do the full lifts from the floor after the bar work. The more full lifts from the floor that they do the better it is.
But if they are not getting it they’ll do some hang work.
Note I have a big stick I beat my lifters with if they don’t get it. They get it fast.
I learned a bit from this thread. Gonna try to post a video sometime soon (if the quality isn’t terrible) for a form check because I know I’m doing so much wrong. A lot of it has to do with the jerk, though, as is the case in this thread.
Not to hi-jack, but, as a tall person (6’ 9") should I have a wider grip on the bar so my arms have to extend less even if I have a skinny frame? How does the knee bend work before the jerk? Where do I drive the force from; heel, ball of foot, combination? When moving my body under the bar at the jerk, the bar goes straight up, slightly behind my head, or do I move my head forward while the bar goes straight up?
I’d try to read more about this, it’s just that I have no idea who or where to invest my faith in since form is such an integral part of these lifts and it’s so easy to be fed incorrect information on the internet LOL. I also don’t see any stickies in this forum.
I would suggest moving your arms out yes. If you can hold the bar overhead then there’s no reason not to widen your grip.
Besides that, I personally like to keep the gravity right below my ankle around mid heel/front heel throughout the whole dip and drive.
The bar should end up above your ears. You should definitely “drive” your head through after the bar goes over it. Some drive the bar straight up and then either jump slightly forward or they lean forward a bit. Others push the bar a bit up and back. I think the important thing is that while the legs and hips drive the bar up the hands should force the bar to go to the position that it should end in.
[quote]lordstorm88 wrote:
I would suggest moving your arms out yes. If you can hold the bar overhead then there’s no reason not to widen your grip.
Besides that, I personally like to keep the gravity right below my ankle around mid heel/front heel throughout the whole dip and drive.
The bar should end up above your ears. You should definitely “drive” your head through after the bar goes over it. Some drive the bar straight up and then either jump slightly forward or they lean forward a bit. Others push the bar a bit up and back. I think the important thing is that while the legs and hips drive the bar up the hands should force the bar to go to the position that it should end in.[/quote]
