I really don’t mind the hate, it’s what people do that I care about. They can stew in hatred all they want, as long as I have equal civil rights.
[quote]clip11 wrote:
Question: Why when someone opposes gay rights do they always have to be filled with hate? What one person may feel is morally right another may feel is morally wrong and another may feel morally neutral.[/quote]
It’s not that they have to be “filled with hate,” it’s just that calling someone a “homophobe” or a “hater” or whatever is a common debate tactic used typically by people on the Left to shut down debate by vilifying the person making the particular claim in question.
The same tactic is used when talking about black crime or latino gang membership. Rather than discuss the inconvenient facts or data, it is much easier to attack the person bringing forth the data by calling him a “racist” or something like that. The person receiving the attack, if recent history is any indicator, will usually apologize and try to claim he’s “not racist!” - which only encourages people making the charge to do it again in the future.
And of course, ad hominem attacks have never occurred against gays on this board.
[quote]forlife wrote:
And of course, ad hominem attacks have never occurred against gays on this board.[/quote]
What is your point, exactly, forlife? That ad hominem is therefore a valid debate tactic? Most of us equipped with logic skillz recognize a logical fallacy when we see one. Sadly, you do not.
Logical fallacy like the ad hominem you just tossed my way in the other gay thread? No doubt you’ll try to justify attacking my character, as if when you do it the logical fallacy magically disappears.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Logical fallacy like the ad hominem you just tossed my way in the other gay thread? No doubt you’ll try to justify attacking my character, as if when you do it the logical fallacy magically disappears.[/quote]
Hey everyone, over to the other thread! PRCalDude is a hypocrite!
Ding! Ding! Ding!
[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Schlenkatank wrote:
I just wanted to say to the gay haters on this site a few things.
-
At least 15% of the population is gay. Fact. Despite what you may have heard, this is the percentage of people that identify as being interested in the same sex. Because many choose to repress their own sexuality the number may be much larger.
-
Homosexuals will alway exist. They always have, and as long as mankind is here, they will be here as a part of the human network. You cannot make them go away.
-
With those facts in mind, there are two distinctive ways you can deal with the issue of homosexuality. You can understand that despite who they have sex with they still retain all the rights of a human being. You can understand it is without question immoral and inhuman to deny a person the right to seek and feel loved by another intimately. You can understand that this issue goes far beyond matters of the transmission of sexually transmitted disease, the ability to reproduce, or whatever those with hearts laden with hatred can say. I understand that knowing these things is a better way to live, and I’m sorry that so many can’t see it that way.
Or you can succumb to your prejudices, treat everyone different from yourself with content, deny them liberties, belittle them with scorn and hatred, and destroy any good within yourself in the process.
Assuming your numbers are accurate, there is nothing to “deal” with. If I took 15% of the people I encounter on a daily basis to be gay, that is such a small number that I would not go out of my way to “deal” with anything. However, if I lived in Miami or Palm Springs, I would have to rethink that.
The numbers are what reflects the population that identifies themselves as “gay”. Again, there are so many in between people as well as people with repressed sexuality like the former evangelical church leader that the number is realistically much larger.
In your statement I believe you mentioned the possible third route which is noninvolvement. That is perfectly acceptable because although it may not help other people you certainly aren’t harming anyone. Taking a step back from the issue is a at least a peaceful stance, although I would challenge you to think to yourself why a gay person deserves the same rights and respect as any other member of society.
But i would disagree on 15% being a small number. If you only see 13 people in one day, you will have met 2 gay people. Maybe one of those people has trouble freely expressing themselves. Therefore, it is a big social issue.[/quote]
There are no in between levels of homosexuality. If you put your dick into another man, or let another man put his dick in you, you are gay. End of story.
You really think that the possibility of me encountering 2 gay people would seriously alter my day? I have seen more gay people at my gym, and it does not affect me in the slightest. Do you think that my interaction with the gay community weighs that heavily on my mind? I love women and all they have to offer, so I have no association, understanding, or connection to homosexuality.
Actually, you’re only gay if you exclusively find people of the same gender attractive. Bisexuals do exist, and apparently are able to find happiness with either gender.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Actually, you’re only gay if you exclusively find people of the same gender attractive. Bisexuals do exist, and apparently are able to find happiness with either gender.[/quote]
Definition FAIL.
[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:
- At least 15% of the population is gay. Fact. Despite what you may have heard, this is the percentage of people that identify as being interested in the same sex. Because many choose to repress their own sexuality the number may be much larger.[/quote]
This is a grossly misunderstood and miscalculated number and, according to many health professionals, is an inaccurate way to consider human sexuality. Obviously, there are no homosexuals in Iran. In Australia, about 2% of the population is gay. According to CNN exit polling, 4% of the US voting population is gay. The Kinsey Reports, generated in the mid-50s, had estimates as high as 37%. And, if you’re like forlife, you should blindly accept whatever number you happen to find people liking right this second and ignore the totality of history and personal experience. I’m not certain as to the exact number, I know it’s not 15% and I know to pretend that it’s some fixed constant is biased and disingenuous.
I defy you to show me anyone on these boards looking to stamp out homosexuality. Looking to violate rights and forcibly convert or destroy homosexuals. Most ‘Anti’ homosexuals;
1.)Merely don’t feel the need to bend over backwards because of someone’s sexual orientation (or any other orientation).
2.)Don’t feel that marriage and the associated baggage is a Right and/or that everyone can/will enjoy.
3.)Most certainly don’t feel that the gov’t and ‘Every major mental health institution’ has any prerogative to ordain what is a Right and prejudicially force or shape its denizens thinking to that end.
[quote]3. With those facts in mind, there are two distinctive ways you can deal with the issue of homosexuality. You can understand that despite who they have sex with they still retain all the rights of a human being.[/quote] While married, forlife enjoyed every right and privilege granted to a heterosexual man in his same position. [quote]You can understand it is without question immoral and inhuman to deny a person the right to seek and feel loved by another intimately.[/quote] The Numero Uno Right in this country is the right to peaceably assemble. [quote]You can understand that this issue goes far beyond matters of the transmission of sexually transmitted disease, the ability to reproduce,[/quote] But you’d be retarded to ignore those things and blind to pretend they didn’t exist, especially since we can’t seem to ignore people smoking, not wearing their seat belts, or even washing their hands as they leave the restroom. [quote]whatever those with hearts laden with hatred can say.[/quote] Wow, that’s a pretty blatant left turn. You effectively bypass any dissension, legitimate or not, and ascribe hatred to all those who might happen to disagree with you. Your mind is closed and you are just as prejudicial as those you criticize.
[quote]lucasa wrote:
Most ‘Anti’ homosexuals;
1.)Merely don’t feel the need to bend over backwards because of someone’s sexual orientation (or any other orientation).
2.)Don’t feel that marriage and the associated baggage is a Right and/or that everyone can/will enjoy.
3.)Most certainly don’t feel that the gov’t and ‘Every major mental health institution’ has any prerogative to ordain what is a Right and prejudicially force or shape its denizens thinking to that end.[/quote]
Well-stated, particularly point #3. Never forget that the high-minded, non-ideological APA published a paper that argued political conservatism as a disturbed cognitive problem. But, don’t forget the esteemed opinions of “educational organizations” - teachers’ unions - which Forlife so fervently reminds us has an opinion on such things as gay “civil rights”.
Agreed. This is classic abuse of the ad hominem we hear gay marriage advocates (wrongly) complaining of their opponents - they simply attack their opponent’s motives as “bigotry” and sidestep all the hard questions put to them.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
forlife wrote:
Actually, you’re only gay if you exclusively find people of the same gender attractive. Bisexuals do exist, and apparently are able to find happiness with either gender.
Definition FAIL. [/quote]
I’m not sure why you’re disagreeing here, the definitions are well known:
Heterosexual: A person who is sexually attracted to members of the opposite sex
Homosexual: A person who is sexually attracted to members of the same sex
Bisexual: Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of either sex
[quote]lucasa wrote:
And, if you’re like forlife, you should blindly accept whatever number you happen to find people liking right this second and ignore the totality of history and personal experience.[/quote]
I acknowledge the consensual conclusions of every major medical, mental health, and educational organization based on 47 years of research on homosexuality.
If you’re like lucasa, you should cherry pick whatever statistic supports your anti-gay agenda, and dismiss every single one of these organizations as so politically biased, irresponsible, and corrupt that their conclusions are worthless.
While married, blacks enjoyed every right and privilege granted to whites in their position: they too could marry someone of the same race.
The logic is flawed, because equality is defined as being able to marry the person you love, not as being able to follow the majority model.
[quote]forlife wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
forlife wrote:
Actually, you’re only gay if you exclusively find people of the same gender attractive. Bisexuals do exist, and apparently are able to find happiness with either gender.
Definition FAIL.
I’m not sure why you’re disagreeing here, the definitions are well known:
Heterosexual: A person who is sexually attracted to members of the opposite sex
Homosexual: A person who is sexually attracted to members of the same sex
Bisexual: Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of either sex[/quote]
Dude there is no bisexual anything. If you like men, and you are a man, then you are gay as fuck. Stop bullshitting people with this nonsense about liking both men and women and just being confused. If you are gay, then just be gay. If you would even consider messing with someone of the same sex, then you are gay, period. I have heard this nonsense of gay men saying they are gay, but liking women too. Dude you are gay, quit lying to yourself.
Of course I’m gay, where the hell did you think I said otherwise?
Bisexuals are SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO BOTH MEN AND WOMEN. I’m EXCLUSIVELY SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO MEN, which makes me GAY. What is so hard to understand about that?
If you are attracted to either sex, you are gay, that is my point. There is no such thing as bisexual. I am not referring you to mean YOU personally. I mean in general. Those who like either sex are gay.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
If you are attracted to either sex, you are gay, that is my point. There is no such thing as bisexual. I am not referring you to mean YOU personally. I mean in general. Those who like either sex are gay.[/quote]
Umm, those who like either sex are BISEXUAL. Look it up.
Are you arguing semantics, or do you have a point? Are you trying to say all gays are bisexual or do you acknowledge that some people are exclusively attracted to the same gender?
Jesus forlife. How many threads are you battling in? Don’t you know it’s better not to fight a multi-front war. 
[quote]forlife wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
If you are attracted to either sex, you are gay, that is my point. There is no such thing as bisexual. I am not referring you to mean YOU personally. I mean in general. Those who like either sex are gay.
Umm, those who like either sex are BISEXUAL. Look it up.
Are you arguing semantics, or do you have a point? Are you trying to say all gays are bisexual or do you acknowledge that some people are exclusively attracted to the same gender?[/quote]
Look what up? Not all gays are bisexual, but all bisexuals are gay. Is that simple enough? People who claim to be “bi” are just selling out. There is no bi, you are either straight or gay.