Civil Rights for Gays, Women, Blacks

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
324

[quote]forlife wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
I wish I would have had more time to write back to him and actually look at the list, instead of just glancing to see if there was a reply. Nice catch.

So the major educational organizations agreeing with the major medical and mental health organizations somehow invalidates the conclusions of the major medical and mental health organizations? Lol.

I’m still waiting for a single reference from a major medical or mental health organization that contradicts the unanimous conclusions of the American Academy of Pediatrics, American Medical Association, American Psychological Association, etc. If you’re going to claim these organizations aren’t unanimous in their conclusions on homosexuality, back it up or admit you don’t know what you’re talking about.[/quote]

Their agreement is like a son agreeing with his father’s business, yet the son does not understand his father’s business. Sure puts more weight on the issue, but take it for what it’s worth.

325

[quote]pat wrote:
Obama is a moron who talks way to much and says to little.

Consentration camps for Jews and Gays in America?! Wow, who knew! Can you tell me where one is so I can pay my respects?[/quote]

Obama is a black man who happens to be the President of our country, and who drew a direct parallel between black and gay civil rights.

I didn’t realize that equal rights only mattered here in the U.S. The pink triangle was an example of how gays have been historically discriminated against in the most cruel manner possible. As with blacks, gay murders have declined but they still happen (e.g., Matthew Shepard - Wikipedia).

The point is that today, under current U.S. law, gays are unable to marry the person they love, while (thankfully) blacks are no longer restricted from marrying the person they love.

326

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Their agreement is like a son agreeing with his father’s business, yet the son does not understand his father’s business. Sure puts more weight on the issue, but take it for what it’s worth.[/quote]

I’m glad you’ve at least backed off the claim that the major medical and mental health organizations aren’t unanimous in their conclusions about homosexuality.

Like I said, I’ll take the conclusions of every major medical and mental health organization, based on 40 years of scientific research, over your case studies of 2 confused recent Catholic converts who are still attracted to people of the same gender.

327

[quote]OBoile wrote:
Sloth wrote:
OBoile wrote:
orion wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
OBoile wrote:
super saiyan wrote:
Even if you take religion out of the equation, an argument against homosexuality can be found in nature itself. Humans and animals cannot produce offspring. There is a high risk of birth abnormalities with offspring of close relatives. And two humans of the same sex cannot reproduce. That’s just ONE reason why all of the above should not be allowed to marry.

You have officially been PWNED by nature.

This would be a great post if the world wasn’t already overpopulated (and particularly the USA).

Yeah when you can fit everyone in the state of Texas, we are really over populated.

If you pack them 500 feet high and feed them soylent green, so that is not really a valid argument.

Beat me to it. The USA is considered by many to be the MOST overpopulated country in the world.

Over China and India?! And by population density, wiki has the US at 177 out of a 238 nation list.

I see we have someone else who fails to grasp that it is about more than just population density.[/quote]

Oh, nice counter-argument.

328

[quote]OBoile wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
OBoile wrote:

Good luck providing enough food, water, timber, oil, steel, cotton etc. in Texas to support the American standard of living for 300,000,000 people. You currently can’t come close to accomplising this with all of the USA’s land, what makes you think you could do it in Texas.

Ya’ll are taking the metaphor beyond what it is supposed to be. You can fit all of the people in America into Texas, it wasn’t a solution. It just shows if you can fit everyone in Texas, then you have 49 plus territories to fit people. Not over populated, what it is…is that everyone has to live in the city now a days, people used to live in small towns. Now everyone jams into the city, and now we are all of a sudden over populated.

If we are one of the most over populated countries, how come we got people in China falling into the Ocean and building houses on top of each other.

  • Brother

Once again your ignorance is demonstrated clearly for everyone to see. The average Chinese person consumes far fewer resources than the average American. You seem to think that living space is then only thing that matters. Let me assure you: it isn’t.
[/quote]

How about saying what you mean, then? You might try an overconsumption, or maybe overdevelopment argument. But, overpopulation?

329

[quote]forlife wrote:
pat wrote:
Obama is a moron who talks way to much and says to little.

Consentration camps for Jews and Gays in America?! Wow, who knew! Can you tell me where one is so I can pay my respects?

Obama is a black man who happens to be the President of our country, and who drew a direct parallel between black and gay civil rights.

I didn’t realize that equal rights only mattered here in the U.S. The pink triangle was an example of how gays have been historically discriminated against in the most cruel manner possible. As with blacks, gay murders have declined but they still happen (e.g., Matthew Shepard - Wikipedia).

The point is that today, under current U.S. law, gays are unable to marry the person they love, while (thankfully) blacks are no longer restricted from marrying the person they love.[/quote]

The rights you are lobbying for are in the U.S. are they not? All of this seems to be an elaborate spin to lobby and make people agree with gay marriage. I don’t think it’s the governments business who is married and who is not.

330

[quote]pat wrote:
The rights you are lobbying for are in the U.S. are they not? All of this seems to be an elaborate spin to lobby and make people agree with gay marriage. I don’t think it’s the governments business who is married and who is not.[/quote]

You’ve followed hundreds of posts on gay marriage, and still haven’t grasped that the 1000+ federal rights/benefits associated with marriage aren’t allowed to gay couples yet? WTF?

331

[quote]forlife wrote:

You’ve followed hundreds of posts on gay marriage, and still haven’t grasped that the 1000+ federal rights/benefits associated with marriage aren’t allowed to gay couples yet? WTF?[/quote]

None of them are rights, most-to-all are “allowed” to gay couples, and the benefits even to enjoined couple are ephemeral and overwhelmingly untested and unproven in alternative lifestyles.

And while you’re making up numbers, at least make them obviously fictitious like 1,000,000+ or 63 vigintillion.

332

[quote]forlife wrote:

The point is that today, under current U.S. law, gays are unable to marry the person they love, while (thankfully) blacks are no longer restricted from marrying the person they love.[/quote]

Not if the person the black person loves is under-aged or already married to someone else, or, of course, both.

333

[quote]lucasa wrote:
None of them are rights, most-to-all are “allowed” to gay couples, and the benefits even to enjoined couple are ephemeral and overwhelmingly untested and unproven in alternative lifestyles.[/quote]

Most of them are allowed to gay couples? Educate yourself, please.

According to a report given to the Office of the General Counsel of the U.S. General Accounting Office, here are a few of the 1,138 benefits the United States government provides to legally married couples. Which of the following are already allowed to gay couples?

Access to Military Stores
Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Automatic Housing Lease Transfer
Automatic Inheritance
Bereavement Leave
Burial Determination
Certain Property Rights
Child Custody
Crime Victim’s Recovery Benefits
Divorce Protections
Domestic Violence Protection
Exemption from Property Tax on Partner’s Death
Immigration
Immunity from Testifying Against Spouse
Insurance Breaks
Joint Adoption and Foster Care
Joint Bankruptcy
Joint Parenting (Insurance Coverage, School Records)
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Reduced Rate Memberships
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Social Security Survivor Benefits
Tax Breaks
Veteran’s Discounts
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison
Visitation of Partner’s Children
Wrongful Death (Loss of Consort) Benefits

334

[quote]forlife wrote:
pat wrote:
The rights you are lobbying for are in the U.S. are they not? All of this seems to be an elaborate spin to lobby and make people agree with gay marriage. I don’t think it’s the governments business who is married and who is not.

You’ve followed hundreds of posts on gay marriage, and still haven’t grasped that the 1000+ federal rights/benefits associated with marriage aren’t allowed to gay couples yet? WTF?[/quote]

Ahhh, you have an entitlement mentality!

I am married, and I am not aware of any of those benefits except for a tax penalty.

You want to marry for Federal benefits? Sound like true love.

Look just because you are born a certain way does not entitle you to shit. A sociopath is not entitled to kill because he was born that way. A kleptomaniac is not entitled to steal, a sex addict is not entitled to screw everything that moves and a homosexual is not entitled to marriage simply because he cannot help his feelings.

I don’t care if you are gay. I don’t care what you do in you personal life. Just don’t tell me you are entitled to things, because you are not. We can’t make special rules for everybody, it’s not practical in theory and impossible in practice.
You have the same rights as everybody else, no more no less. If you prefer a gay relationship, then go for it, but do stamp you feet in a fit for some imaginary rights you think you deserve.

335

[quote]pat wrote:
Ahhh, you have an entitlement mentality!

I am married, and I am not aware of any of those benefits except for a tax penalty.

You want to marry for Federal benefits? Sound like true love.

Look just because you are born a certain way does not entitle you to shit. A sociopath is not entitled to kill because he was born that way. A kleptomaniac is not entitled to steal, a sex addict is not entitled to screw everything that moves and a homosexual is not entitled to marriage simply because he cannot help his feelings.

I don’t care if you are gay. I don’t care what you do in you personal life. Just don’t tell me you are entitled to things, because you are not. We can’t make special rules for everybody, it’s not practical in theory and impossible in practice.
You have the same rights as everybody else, no more no less. If you prefer a gay relationship, then go for it, but do stamp you feet in a fit for some imaginary rights you think you deserve.[/quote]

Nice rant, your true colors are shining through.

336

[quote]pat wrote:
forlife wrote:
pat wrote:
The rights you are lobbying for are in the U.S. are they not? All of this seems to be an elaborate spin to lobby and make people agree with gay marriage. I don’t think it’s the governments business who is married and who is not.

You’ve followed hundreds of posts on gay marriage, and still haven’t grasped that the 1000+ federal rights/benefits associated with marriage aren’t allowed to gay couples yet? WTF?

Ahhh, you have an entitlement mentality!

I am married, and I am not aware of any of those benefits except for a tax penalty.

You want to marry for Federal benefits? Sound like true love.

Look just because you are born a certain way does not entitle you to shit. A sociopath is not entitled to kill because he was born that way. A kleptomaniac is not entitled to steal, a sex addict is not entitled to screw everything that moves and a homosexual is not entitled to marriage simply because he cannot help his feelings.

[/quote]
Interesting that every example you give is a crime except the homosexual one which hurts no one.

337

[quote]OBoile wrote:
[…] Interesting that every example you give is a crime except the homosexual one which hurts no one.
[/quote]

That’s a common pattern, and regularly used. Helps keeping up the illusion (self-delusion) of being balanced when employing the whole ‘I’m not against gays, but…’ rhethoric. The underlying assumption tends to be that homosexuality somehow unfairly escaped from being a crime / perversion / mental illness / flaw of character or general reason to beat someone up - without of course directly saying so.

Makkun

338

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
forlife wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
It’s not unanimous, nice try.

Oh really? Name a major professional medical/mental health organization that has drawn different conclusions on homosexuality than those reached by:

American Academy of Pediatrics
American Medical Association
American Psychological Association
American Psychiatric Association
American Counseling Association
National Association of School Psychologists
American Association of School Administrators
American Federation of Teachers
American School Counselor Association
National Association of Secondary School Principals
National Education Association
School Social Work Association of America
National Association of Social Workers
Surgeon General

The above organizations have conducted 40 years of research on homosexuality, and have reached unanimous conclusions on homosexuality. You disagree with them based on…what? Knowing two “ex-gay” people that joined the Catholic church because they consider being gay to be wrong, yet are still attracted to the same gender?

Thanks, but I’ll take the conclusions of these professional organizations, along with my personal experience, over your flawed case studies.

I don’t have a dog in this fight, as I do not contend homosexuality is a sickness, but to note: only in Forlife’s world are teacher’s unions “medical/mental health organizations”.

Here it was I was certain they were just garden variety political lobbies. It is amazing what hallucinations zealotry can produce.
[/quote]

You didn’t know that the National Association of Secondary School Principals was a major health organization?

Shame on you TB.

339

According to you all consenting adults can marry anyone they like. If that is your premise, tell us forlife where do polygamists and those who want an incestuous marriage fall in your fantasy world?

Why don’t you enlighten us?

340

[quote]ZEB wrote:
According to you all consenting adults can marry anyone they like. If that is your premise, tell us forlife where do polygamists and those who want an incestuous marriage fall in your fantasy world?

Why don’t you enlighten us?[/quote]

Frankly, I’m not convinced either should be denied. I’m certainly not comfortable about either polygamy or marrying a family member but as long as it is between adults and not coerced, I’m not sure it shouldn’t be allowed.

341

[quote]makkun wrote:
OBoile wrote:
[…] Interesting that every example you give is a crime except the homosexual one which hurts no one.

That’s a common pattern, and regularly used. Helps keeping up the illusion (self-delusion) of being balanced when employing the whole ‘I’m not against gays, but…’ rhethoric. The underlying assumption tends to be that homosexuality somehow unfairly escaped from being a crime / perversion / mental illness / flaw of character or general reason to beat someone up - without of course directly saying so.

Makkun[/quote]

Your assessment is incorrect.

342

Hey Brother Chris, when you get a chance I would be interested to know what your two “ex-gay” newly reformed Catholic friends who still find people of the same gender attractive think about this:

[quote]In Plugging New Book, Exodus’ Alan Chambers Sets Low Bar For Exodus

So, “ex-gay” activist Alan Chambers admitted in an interview that he lives in “self-denial.” The president of Exodus International also told the conservative online magazine, Citizen Link, that Exodus clients should not expect that “they are going into heterosexuality.”

If one reads through all of the convoluted double talk, Chambers is essentially letting potential clients know that they should have very low expectations of what Exodus has to offer. Exodus is basically a support group for suppressing sexuality.

The interview with Chambers promoted his new book, “Leaving Homosexuality”, which focuses on intimate details of his private life, such as his inability to perform sexually with his wife on their wedding night. More important, Chambers admits that becoming “ex-gay” is unnatural, a “hard road” and that the nagging “temptations” never end.

The truth is, I’m in denial, but it is self-denial," Chambers told Citizen Link. “…What I’ve found is that my freedom, and the freedom of those who’ve left homosexuality, was centered around denying what might come naturally to us…here is a way out for those who want it, but it doesn’t say that they are going into heterosexuality.”

Clearly, attempts to ‘pray away the gay’ don’t work and can lead to depression and even suicide. Alan Chambers was forthright when he said ‘ex-gay’ groups are not about ‘going into heterosexuality.’ I hope people will grasp this before they waste time and money on ineffective and dangerous programs.

Chambers also said, “The most important thing for someone who doesn’t know the Lord is that they know Christ, not that they leave homosexuality.”

I hope that Chambers’ sentiment translates into more acceptance for gay Christians and religious institutions that support equality. Exodus must realize that the intolerance it preaches has driven away many gay people from all forms of religion.[/quote]

343

[quote]forlife wrote:

Nice rant, your true colors are shining through.[/quote]

No rant, it’s the truth. You don’t deserve special rights because you were born or choose to behave in a manner outside the norm. I think you are just whining, really.

You are lobbying for rights based on your sexual behaviour and preference, I cannot think of anything more ridiculous or absurd.