Like I said Ben. Ya really let me down and you continue to do so. Sloth was right, but I jist hadta try. I don’t know what you mean about editing my posts, but my legs are pretty sore though. I almost forgot. It’s the eternality of who the crime is against that makes it eternal. Not the finitude of the perpetrator. Mr “I was raised on this stuff”. Come on, join us back in your own thread. It ain’t the same without ya man. Dr. Greg’ll give ya a lollipop and read ya a bedtime story. I’ll up yer meds fer ya too and maybe even make ya a member of T-Cell alpha. (Jist kiddin Doc) Professor X would kill me. =]
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
“Yeah, you friend died, I’m tooootally sorry, but he’s in hell now and my god is torturing him and I find this awesome! Off I am to preach the gospel of my wonderful god who’s full of love”
[/quote]
I guess the guy could’ve repented and received the offer of God’s love found in Jesus Christ, but he didn’t. Every decision has consequences.
What’s interesting about the heart of man is it can be so stubborn. Actually, I think if people in hell would repent, God would let them out. Here is an interesting verse in Revelation that suggests even in hell, they will not:
Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Note in this passage those being punished by God know their Creator is the cause of their pain, yet they still do not repent. It is this same hardness of heart that caused Jesus Christ to grieve for His own nation: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!”
You still have time Schwarzfahrer, seek Him while He may be found, before your Creator has lost patience, and gives you over to your own delusions.
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
“Yeah, you friend died, I’m tooootally sorry, but he’s in hell now and my god is torturing him and I find this awesome! Off I am to preach the gospel of my wonderful god who’s full of love”
[/quote]
I guess the guy could’ve repented and received the offer of God’s love found in Jesus Christ, but he didn’t. Every decision has consequences.
[/quote]
Christopher Hitchens was a man that spoke well and championed a good cause. Christians are forever making it out to sound like a man like Hitchens has hardened his heart against God intentionally, or maybe just to spite Christians personally.
Hitchens didn’t DECIDE to believe what he believed, any more than you did. The implication of willful ignorance is probably why a lot of people find characters like Tiribulus and yourself offensive and annoying.
If someone has held views contrary to my own for the entirety of his life and basically called me an idiot up to his death of old age then I’m not sure if I’d be touting about what a brilliant and wonderful person he was. Even if he was right; it’s just not human nature.
So I have to wonder if the OP and others in agreement think he was brilliant just because he was famous (do not dare to question his importance for that reason, which is unfortunate) or what for? I doubt he came up with much new evidence for the falsity of theism and religions.
And I’m not sure why I would applaud a man who, in religion logic, has helped to affect as much as hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people in such a way that they are now more likely to be punished infinitely. Or is it just some sort of veiled glee from learning about the death of the person and then getting on the high horse of forgiveness?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Like I said Ben. Ya really let me down and you continue to do so. Sloth was right, but I jist hadta try. I don’t know what you mean about editing my posts, but my legs are pretty sore though. I almost forgot. It’s the eternality of who the crime is against that makes it eternal. Not the finitude of the perpetrator. Mr “I was raised on this stuff”. Come on, join us back in your own thread. It ain’t the same without ya man. Dr. Greg’ll give ya a lollipop and read ya a bedtime story. I’ll up yer meds fer ya too and maybe even make ya a member of T-Cell alpha. (Jist kiddin Doc) Professor X would kill me. =] [/quote]
This must surely be the most pathetic little windbag I’ve ever encountered. He get’s proven wrong time and time again, but still hangs around for more punishment. I really think he’s simply a sado-masochist. I guess Pat had the right idea just putting him on ignore. No way I’m playing ball, and I don’t see how anyone who bothers to read a little bit of posting history gets suckered into those 30 page threads with him 
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
Hitchens didn’t DECIDE to believe what he believed, any more than you did.
[/quote]
Yours certainly is an interesting opinion.
Do you believe you have a soul Ben?
I appreciate you telling me I’m not a coward Ben, but you sure are. You haven’t proven squat about anything. You came in here all cocky n blustering. I stepped up to your pitiful challenge and you ran away. Now here you are with shallow substanceless personal attacks.
Every one of you people who show up here claiming a past with Jesus are the same. Oleena’s not doin too well either, but I have changed my view of her somewhat. You just run into the bushes and fire harmless spitballs. I’m going to be very honest and this won’t sound very nice. However, many times I think people are better than what they bring here. I don’t know about you. This may be all you got.
[quote]Alffi wrote:<<< brilliant >>>[/quote]I did say that [quote]Alffi wrote:<<< wonderful >>>[/quote]but not that. [quote]Alffi wrote:<<< it’s just not human nature. >>>[/quote]Nope. 2nd Peter 1:1-4 NASB [quote]1-Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: 2-Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; 3-seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. 4-For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust >>>[/quote]Also, I didn’t say anything about forgiveness. He didn’t do anything to me directly. I didn’t even know the man. This may be really tough to believe, but I actually care about people whether I know them personally or not.
There are people in these forums whose name I don’t know and I don’t know what they look like either (some I know both). Many of them hate my guts, but I truly love them and would cry like a baby if I found out anything happened to them. I know how sappy and corny and phony that sounds to you. I can’t help that.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Though a vicious enemy of his creator God, I am grieved to see this man die most likely out of His saving grace.
So does this mean that your loving all forgiving god has more than likely cast Mr. Hitchens into a burning pit of fire to be a tortured soul for eternity?
[/quote]He was no more damnable than anyone else without Christ. I actually liked the guy. I enjoyed listening to him. He was clearly a brilliant and clear thinking individual as have been and are vaaaast multitudes of other unbelieving people. Some of them right here in these forums. I have loudly said so myself.
Sin, death, righteousness and life have literally nothing whatever to do with intelligence or elocution or the lack of either. I saw the glory of the God he spent his life denying in the gifts that that God had given him. If he died as he lived then he is lost and yes he will suffer the just sentence for his eternal crimes against the throne of the most high God and His Christ. The same just sentence that I myself deserve a thousand times over.[/quote]
I see no glory in a god that would torture and burn for eternity the very imperfect soul that he created. That my friend, is absolute bullshit. That would be like the carpenter getting all kinds of pissed of at the imperfect cabinet he just built, and setting it on fire as punishment. Just fucking stupid.
Hitchens was one of the first to illustrate for me all that is evil about the bible and religion in general, and for that I will be eternally grateful. He spent his life trying to lead people out of the ignorance of religion and into the light of reason. The “good book” is full of rape, child sacrifice, racism, slavery, etc. All of it endorsed by your god. No thank you to all of it, I will not be made slave to a viscous mythology.
Question for you: If god asked you to kill your children, would you?
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
Hitchens didn’t DECIDE to believe what he believed, any more than you did.
[/quote]
Yours certainly is an interesting opinion.
Do you believe you have a soul Ben?[/quote]
I can’t speak for Ben, But I personally have no belief in any sort of a soul.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
And I’m not sure why I would applaud a man who, in religion logic, has helped to affect as much as hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people in such a way that they are now more likely to be punished infinitely. Or is it just some sort of veiled glee from learning about the death of the person and then getting on the high horse of forgiveness?[/quote]
Punished for what? Throwing the bullshit flag on religion and highlighting it for the poison that it is?
[quote]bigflamer wrote:<<< I see …[/quote]No you don’t. Where in Michigan do you live?
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Aragorn, you miss my point. I don’t think I felt ever offended.
Perhaps some of the eulogy poopers could tell my where the difference lies between what the Westboro loons do and what is being written here?
It’s funny because last time I checked, those guys are pretty much hated here. By none other then christian rightwingers.
Just like the Westboro church.
They just want to wake America up! Fucking atheists won’t understand…[/quote]
Schwarzy, I think I am going to have to apologize. I was having a very bad day and I let it carry over into my posting with you. Very thoughtful of you to respond civilly.
Speaking solely of what tirib posted, I am failing to understand the equivalence of “God hates fags” with “i am sad and grieved to see that he dies in all probability without his saving Grace”. The two are simply not anywhere near equivalent. If you are speaking of the twitter responses, sorry I am not on twitter and I dont read them.
However in regards to your posting about “how can you say he is brilliant-if he is wrong about the existence of God then he can’t be brilliant” nonsense then I did not miss your point and you are simply wrong.
[/quote]
god hates fags is certainly more offensive on the linguistic level.
But it’s
a) the honest truth when reading the bible. The divine monster does indeed HATE fags!
b) the consequence is the same. If in medieval ages, a spanish inquisitor tortured your children with tears in his eyes, murmuring “how hard this is, but ultimately it’s for the better of theirs souls”, would it make a shred of difference compared to a regular routine of a local robber baron, who rapes, tortures, then kills and plunders (in case you don’t know, the inquision did take all the accused’s material posessions)?
Inhuman violence it is.
So I don’t care about the sugarcoating.
Regarding the other argument, yes, it is highly strange and suspicious to call someone brilliant if his works are really all crap.
If everything a certain scientist produces is complete and utter failure, and furthermore, he manages to confuse a large part of the community, leading them astray into junk-science (water-energy, phlogiston etc), nobody would ever call him “brilliant” upon his death.
So it’s a different motivation lurking behind the facade of politeness.
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Though a vicious enemy of his creator God, I am grieved to see this man die most likely out of His saving grace.
So does this mean that your loving all forgiving god has more than likely cast Mr. Hitchens into a burning pit of fire to be a tortured soul for eternity?
[/quote]
The day of judgement have yet to be, so Hitchens are non-existent at the moment, but he`s souls eternal faith will be decided on the day of judgement. Off course this will only happen if the God of Abraham exist. [/quote]
They say the heavenly super-monster isn’t affected by time, so from his vantage point, Hitch is burning bright.
Since he’s the purgatory’s creator and the one who can undo it, our time-constrained perspective is meaningless if we’re rightfully blaming the sky-tyrant.
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
“Yeah, you friend died, I’m tooootally sorry, but he’s in hell now and my god is torturing him and I find this awesome! Off I am to preach the gospel of my wonderful god who’s full of love”
[/quote]
I guess the guy could’ve repented and received the offer of God’s love found in Jesus Christ, but he didn’t. Every decision has consequences.
What’s interesting about the heart of man is it can be so stubborn. Actually, I think if people in hell would repent, God would let them out. Here is an interesting verse in Revelation that suggests even in hell, they will not:
Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Note in this passage those being punished by God know their Creator is the cause of their pain, yet they still do not repent. It is this same hardness of heart that caused Jesus Christ to grieve for His own nation: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!”
You still have time Schwarzfahrer, seek Him while He may be found, before your Creator has lost patience, and gives you over to your own delusions.
[/quote]
Ask yourself if this particular religion would not have arisen by itself, like thousands of others did and still do.
And why should I “seek”/worship him, if the alternative is eternal torture?
With these stakes, no wonder most men cave in.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:<<< And why should I “seek”/worship him, if the alternative is eternal torture?
With these stakes, no wonder most men cave in.
[/quote]For the record, I seek/worship Him because I love Him with absolutely everything I have and everything I am. I am His to do with as He sees fit and am privileged and grateful to have it so. Hell has nothing to do with me anymore.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
So I have to wonder if the OP and others in agreement think he was brilliant just because he was famous (do not dare to question his importance for that reason, which is unfortunate) or what for? I doubt he came up with much new evidence for the falsity of theism and religions.
[/quote]
Have you even seen one of his debates? You should at least check out some of it so you don’t have to ask a question like this. I don’t agree with everything that poured out of Winston Churchill’s mouth but it would be hard to argue that he wasn’t a brilliant man. Also, “Religion logic?” seriously? ummm those two things don’t make good campsite buddies.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I appreciate you telling me I’m not a coward Ben, but you sure are. You haven’t proven squat about anything. You came in here all cocky n blustering. I stepped up to your pitiful challenge and you ran away. Now here you are with shallow substanceless personal attacks.
Every one of you people who show up here claiming a past with Jesus are the same. Oleena’s not doin too well either, but I have changed my view of her somewhat. You just run into the bushes and fire harmless spitballs. I’m going to be very honest and this won’t sound very nice. However, many times I think people are better than what they bring here. I don’t know about you. This may be all you got. [/quote]
Nope, no cowardice in you. Masochistic crackpot, but not a coward. Personal attacks are rife in your posts to me and others, so it’s a little late for you to cry foul about that.
And you didn’t step up to anything, you made a couple of belittling remarks and then tried to get your epistemology logic loop started. If I hadn’t read your posting history you might even have snared me. Ah fuck I’m replying again… Pat has you pegged exactly right. Exactly. lol
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:<<< I see …[/quote]No you don’t. Where in Michigan do you live?
[/quote]
I’m in the GR area of west Michigan. I love this state, even if it is being run into the shitter by the political class.
Trib, you seem like a nice guy, and someone who actually believes that religion is a force for good in the world. However the more I educate myself on the realities of what religion really represents, I can’t have anything but disgust for it. I was, at one time, a good catholic boy. I spent many hours trying to square the church with reason and reality, and believe me, caused some headaches for the priests I talked to. “Have faith, and pray” is what I was always told; even had one priest tell me “be careful what you read”. Like that wasn’t some medieval dark ages shit right there. Well, I woke up and dealt with reality, and I’m a happier man for it.
Here’s something; just down the road from the church I was baptized at is a Buddhist temple; both of them very close to the fire department that I work for. I have responded a few times to the temple on alarms, and was always treated warmly and had already been reading as much as I could on Buddhism. I was driving one day and it occurred to me after passing both places, that the church I was baptized at teaches that if anyone willingly rejects Christ, then they will go to hell. So, this would mean that every single one of the nice people I had met at the Buddhist temple would be subject to eternal damnation, right? And for what? Worshiping a different god? I’m sorry, but fuck that.
Here is a case where we have people worshiping a different god and not acknowledging Christ in the slightest, who are very nice people and are probably just as moral as the Catholics down the road. They (the buddhists) know about Christ, and still choose to not acknowledge him as their savior in the slightest.
My questions for you are; do they get “punished”? Are they “wicked” Do they get sent to hell to be tormented forever in a pit of fire attended by demons?
“The religion of one age, is the literary entertainment of the next”