Christ Would Oppose USA?

orion · December 30, 2008, 12:19pm

[quote]Makavali wrote:
John S. wrote:
Makavali wrote:
John S. wrote:
His belief had nothing to do with the war. Nor does my belief have anything to do with supporting it. You are delusional if you think without religion there would be peace.

Not total peace, but probably more.

People will always look for ways to justify killing people, Religion just happened to be one of those ways. You take that away these same people will find another excuse to kill.

They might, but I still think less killing would happen without (organized) religion. I’ve never heard of an Agnostic taking up the sword in the name of God.[/quote]

Na, but they find a quasi-religion and do it anyway.

If nationalism, socialism, fascism and any mixture of those are any indication such collective hysteria tends to be pretty bloody in the beginning.

So why not stick to good old bronze age fairy tales and a nice cup of tea.

dhickey · January 2, 2009, 12:50am

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Somewhat relevant to this thread, courtesy of my favorite British atheist, Pat Condell.

"Now, the real irony here of course is that if Jesus Christ was the American president, what a different world this would be.

"But of course that’s just an impossible dream, because there’s no way Jesus would ever be elected president.

"How many right wing Christians are going to vote for a liberal Jew?

"You’ve got more chance of getting blood out of a Jehovah’s Witness.

"He’s from the Middle East and he looks like a goddamned hippie. The Fox network would crucify him, if he hadn’t already been arrested as a terrorist.

"No, I think right now America is probably just a little too Christian for Jesus.

[/quote]

His opposition to income tax would certainly be hurdle to his election.

I guess he could ask God to change the 10 commandments a bit.

Thou shalt not steal => Thou shalt not steal without a majority in congress.

Varqanir · January 2, 2009, 1:35am

[quote]Chushin wrote:
I wonder about the flip side: Would Mohammed condemn the Taliban, bin Laden, etc?[/quote]

Or, for that matter, would Moses condemn Israel for bombing the shit out of Gaza?

…nah, Probably not.

Anonymous_Coward · January 2, 2009, 2:13am

[quote]Makavali wrote:
They might, but I still think less killing would happen without (organized) religion. I’ve never heard of an Agnostic taking up the sword in the name of God.[/quote]

But they do take up the sword, and that’s what matters to whoever’s on the other end of it.

DoubleDuce · January 2, 2009, 9:13pm

I think that Jesus was definitely non-violent, but I don’t think he was passive.

Things like turning the check on the surface may seem passive, but there really is more to it than that. It can be seen as almost an insult to the other person with the given customs. If you turn to them the other cheek it makes them either not hit you again or use the hand they weren’t supposed to do that sort of thing with.

Carrying the bags and giving the clothing to soldiers can be viewed in the same light. Supposedly a soldier could force you to carry his stuff up to a given distance, if you carried it farther than than, he could get in trouble. The same applies to the clothes. You would be getting the soldier in trouble in both cases.

Makavali · January 3, 2009, 7:24pm

[quote]Anonymous Coward wrote:
Makavali wrote:
They might, but I still think less killing would happen without (organized) religion. I’ve never heard of an Agnostic taking up the sword in the name of God.

But they do take up the sword, and that’s what matters to whoever’s on the other end of it.[/quote]

In that case, enlighten me on these agnostic holy wars please.

Sloth · January 4, 2009, 4:15am

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Anonymous Coward wrote:
Makavali wrote:
They might, but I still think less killing would happen without (organized) religion. I’ve never heard of an Agnostic taking up the sword in the name of God.

But they do take up the sword, and that’s what matters to whoever’s on the other end of it.

In that case, enlighten me on these agnostic holy wars please.[/quote]

They wouldn’t be holy wars. They would be secular. Wars fought over borders, resources, capitalism, socialism, communism, facism, nazism, these rights, those rights, our rights, your rights, somebody else’s rights, democracy, drugs, etc., etc. I’m sure there are some examples.

Jeff_R · February 3, 2009, 3:23am

[quote]Billy Whizz wrote:
As a doubting lutheran christian, feel free to call me agnostic, I really wouldn’t care what Jesus had to say about the US.
I’m northeren european so all religion mixed with politics just makes us cringe.

And I know Denmark has a state religion, but it doesn’t have any effect on the politics of the country.

For a lack of a better phrase to describe this thread: jesus christ…[/quote]

Hey, Billy.

Just wanted to make sure that your “cringing” is a direct response to your region’s history.

However, if you are trying to say that religion mixing with politics is a newly-minted American phenomena, I’d be happy to discuss that with you.

JeffR

Makavali · February 3, 2009, 5:55am

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Anonymous Coward wrote:
Makavali wrote:
They might, but I still think less killing would happen without (organized) religion. I’ve never heard of an Agnostic taking up the sword in the name of God.

But they do take up the sword, and that’s what matters to whoever’s on the other end of it.

In that case, enlighten me on these agnostic holy wars please.

They wouldn’t be holy wars. They would be secular. Wars fought over borders, resources, capitalism, socialism, communism, facism, nazism, these rights, those rights, our rights, your rights, somebody else’s rights, democracy, drugs, etc., etc. I’m sure there are some examples.[/quote]

Enlighten me. I still see religion as being the major thing for human conflict.

John_S1 · February 3, 2009, 6:28am

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Anonymous Coward wrote:
Makavali wrote:
They might, but I still think less killing would happen without (organized) religion. I’ve never heard of an Agnostic taking up the sword in the name of God.

But they do take up the sword, and that’s what matters to whoever’s on the other end of it.

In that case, enlighten me on these agnostic holy wars please.

They wouldn’t be holy wars. They would be secular. Wars fought over borders, resources, capitalism, socialism, communism, facism, nazism, these rights, those rights, our rights, your rights, somebody else’s rights, democracy, drugs, etc., etc. I’m sure there are some examples.

Enlighten me. I still see religion as being the major thing for human conflict.[/quote]

WW1 WW2 Vietnam Korea The Revolutionary war, The Civil war.

How many of these were because of Religion.

LIFTICVSMAXIMVS · February 3, 2009, 3:26pm

[quote]John S. wrote:
WW1 WW2 Vietnam Korea The Revolutionary war, The Civil war.

How many of these were because of Religion.
[/quote]

Good point. Looks like government’s fault to me.

Dr_Razor · February 5, 2009, 12:29pm

WW2 had strong basis in the eradication of Jews.

Cockney_Blue · February 5, 2009, 5:45pm

[quote]Chushin wrote:
ephrem wrote:
YOU BELIEVERS ARE ALL DELUSIONAL!

And yet, so much nicer as people than you…
[/quote]

As long as we believe the same set of fables as you.

John_S1 · February 5, 2009, 6:35pm

[quote]Dr_Razor wrote:
WW2 had strong basis in the eradication of Jews.[/quote]

They needed a scape goat to blame the economy on and the Jews just happened to be the group he decided to blame.

John_S1 · February 5, 2009, 1:39pm

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Chushin wrote:
ephrem wrote:
YOU BELIEVERS ARE ALL DELUSIONAL!

And yet, so much nicer as people than you…

As long as we believe the same set of fables as you.[/quote]

The only people I see being douche bags to people who don’t think the same as them are the Atheists. You can find a few examples of christians doing that but they are few and far between.

Cockney_Blue · February 5, 2009, 6:47pm

[quote]John S. wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Chushin wrote:
ephrem wrote:
YOU BELIEVERS ARE ALL DELUSIONAL!

And yet, so much nicer as people than you…

As long as we believe the same set of fables as you.

The only people I see being douche bags to people who don’t think the same as them are the Atheists. You can find a few examples of christians doing that but they are few and far between.[/quote]

Yeah ok, so the fact that you (I assume based on the widely accepted tennets of your faith,) think that I will go to hell and be tortured for eternity is not at all douche baggy then?

And lets not forget Islam, lots of tolerance for other beliefs there.

John_S1 · February 5, 2009, 6:53pm

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
John S. wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Chushin wrote:
ephrem wrote:
YOU BELIEVERS ARE ALL DELUSIONAL!

And yet, so much nicer as people than you…

As long as we believe the same set of fables as you.

The only people I see being douche bags to people who don’t think the same as them are the Atheists. You can find a few examples of christians doing that but they are few and far between.

Yeah ok, so the fact that you (I assume based on the widely accepted tennets of your faith,) think that I will go to hell and be tortured for eternity is not at all douche baggy then?

And lets not forget Islam, lots of tolerance for other beliefs there.[/quote]

Do I know you are going there? Yes. But its your choice I don’t look at you like your stupid or whatever you look at me like because I don’t think we are the product of chance.

I think everyone understands that Islam is the religion of violence.

You were attacking Christianity with your post lets not start playing this game where you are going to try and pull up other religions we all know which one you ment.

Cockney_Blue · February 5, 2009, 7:05pm

[quote]John S. wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
John S. wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Chushin wrote:
ephrem wrote:
YOU BELIEVERS ARE ALL DELUSIONAL!

And yet, so much nicer as people than you…

As long as we believe the same set of fables as you.

The only people I see being douche bags to people who don’t think the same as them are the Atheists. You can find a few examples of christians doing that but they are few and far between.

Yeah ok, so the fact that you (I assume based on the widely accepted tennets of your faith,) think that I will go to hell and be tortured for eternity is not at all douche baggy then?

And lets not forget Islam, lots of tolerance for other beliefs there.

Do I know you are going there? Yes. But its your choice I don’t look at you like your stupid or whatever you look at me like because I don’t think we are the product of chance.

I think everyone understands that Islam is the religion of violence.

You were attacking Christianity with your post lets not start playing this game where you are going to try and pull up other religions we all know which one you ment.
[/quote]

No I hold all religions in equal disdain. I respect your right to your beliefs but that doesn’t mean I respect your beliefs.

Back to the original question, were there an actual Jesus Christ (which I doubt) and were he to arrive in the USA today, I guess he would be confused by all the crosses, and totally confused by what he saw going on in Churches, he would probably end up feeling more at home in a Mosque or an Orthadox church.

In terms of the US government, I think he would be horrified by the things done in his name.

John_S1 · February 5, 2009, 2:11pm

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
John S. wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
John S. wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Chushin wrote:
ephrem wrote:
YOU BELIEVERS ARE ALL DELUSIONAL!