[quote]ephrem wrote:
John S. wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…you are going to the same place i’m going after we’re dead: nowhere (-:
You and I will be going to two different places, not because of are actions but because of are beliefs.
…you meant to write ‘our’ instead of ‘are’, right? Look, altough i don’t want to ridicule you for what you believe, and i understand the kind of value they can have for a person, i just can’t wrap my head around the fact a believer is willingly fooling himself in order to sooth certain insecurities. That ís delusional, and it is this ability to delude people into believing something is true [when it’s not] that’s fucking us all over…
[/quote]
How does me believing that Jesus is the Son of God, Died for my sins, rose again in 3 days and then returned to heaven “fuck us all over”?
[quote]John S. wrote:
ephrem wrote:
John S. wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…you are going to the same place i’m going after we’re dead: nowhere (-:
You and I will be going to two different places, not because of are actions but because of are beliefs.
…you meant to write ‘our’ instead of ‘are’, right? Look, altough i don’t want to ridicule you for what you believe, and i understand the kind of value they can have for a person, i just can’t wrap my head around the fact a believer is willingly fooling himself in order to sooth certain insecurities. That ís delusional, and it is this ability to delude people into believing something is true [when it’s not] that’s fucking us all over…
How does me believing that Jesus is the Son of God, Died for my sins, rose again in 3 days and then returned to heaven “fuck us all over”?
[/quote]
…that’s not what i wrote. I wrote, “and it is this ability to delude people into believing something is true [when it’s not] that’s fucking us all over”. Whether it’s a president that believes, or is eager to believe [reasonable deniability], a lie and leads his country into an unnecessary war or some impressionable assholes who willingly fly themselves into buildings: it’s the mechanics behind it that is fucking us over…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
John S. wrote:
ephrem wrote:
John S. wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…you are going to the same place i’m going after we’re dead: nowhere (-:
You and I will be going to two different places, not because of are actions but because of are beliefs.
…you meant to write ‘our’ instead of ‘are’, right? Look, altough i don’t want to ridicule you for what you believe, and i understand the kind of value they can have for a person, i just can’t wrap my head around the fact a believer is willingly fooling himself in order to sooth certain insecurities. That ís delusional, and it is this ability to delude people into believing something is true [when it’s not] that’s fucking us all over…
How does me believing that Jesus is the Son of God, Died for my sins, rose again in 3 days and then returned to heaven “fuck us all over”?
…that’s not what i wrote. I wrote, “and it is this ability to delude people into believing something is true [when it’s not] that’s fucking us all over”. Whether it’s a president that believes, or is eager to believe [reasonable deniability], a lie and leads his country into an unnecessary war or some impressionable assholes who willingly fly themselves into buildings: it’s the mechanics behind it that is fucking us over…[/quote]
His belief had nothing to do with the war. Nor does my belief have anything to do with supporting it. You are delusional if you think without religion there would be peace.
[quote]John S. wrote:
ephrem wrote:
John S. wrote:
ephrem wrote:
John S. wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…you are going to the same place i’m going after we’re dead: nowhere (-:
You and I will be going to two different places, not because of are actions but because of are beliefs.
…you meant to write ‘our’ instead of ‘are’, right? Look, altough i don’t want to ridicule you for what you believe, and i understand the kind of value they can have for a person, i just can’t wrap my head around the fact a believer is willingly fooling himself in order to sooth certain insecurities. That ís delusional, and it is this ability to delude people into believing something is true [when it’s not] that’s fucking us all over…
How does me believing that Jesus is the Son of God, Died for my sins, rose again in 3 days and then returned to heaven “fuck us all over”?
…that’s not what i wrote. I wrote, “and it is this ability to delude people into believing something is true [when it’s not] that’s fucking us all over”. Whether it’s a president that believes, or is eager to believe [reasonable deniability], a lie and leads his country into an unnecessary war or some impressionable assholes who willingly fly themselves into buildings: it’s the mechanics behind it that is fucking us over…
His belief had nothing to do with the war. Nor does my belief have anything to do with supporting it. You are delusional if you think without religion there would be peace.[/quote]
…i think you’re intentionally misunderstanding me. People are able to willingly fool themselves into believing that all kinds of nonsense is true, in order to sooth certain insecurities. It is this ability that is taken advantage of by religion and politicians to reach specific goals: accumulation of wealth, controlling the masses and maintaining/expanding power. This delusion is so powerful that a believer will even kill to protect the delusion or the central proponent of the delusion. Hope this clears it up for you…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…i think you’re intentionally misunderstanding me. People are able to willingly fool themselves into believing that all kinds of nonsense is true, in order to sooth certain insecurities. It is this ability that is taken advantage of by religion and politicians to reach specific goals: accumulation of wealth, controlling the masses and maintaining/expanding power. This delusion is so powerful that a believer will even kill to protect the delusion or the central proponent of the delusion. Hope this clears it up for you…
[/quote]
I think you have an irrational fear of people who have the unmitigated gall to believe in something you don’t. You think Jesus is a fictional character, fine. We got that the first time you posted it. You have the right to post whatever you want, but saying it 43 times in the same thread with no one asking you kinda makes you look pathetic.
I think that what Jesus was trying to do was, not condemn or oppose any government, but to change mankind. A more just government (like the USA) would follow as people changed.
He was going after causes, not the symptoms (bad governance).
It would be interesting to see irrefutable proof that Jesus lived. Perhaps even just a mention in Tacitus or Josephus would be enough?
[quote]rainjack wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…i think you’re intentionally misunderstanding me. People are able to willingly fool themselves into believing that all kinds of nonsense is true, in order to sooth certain insecurities. It is this ability that is taken advantage of by religion and politicians to reach specific goals: accumulation of wealth, controlling the masses and maintaining/expanding power. This delusion is so powerful that a believer will even kill to protect the delusion or the central proponent of the delusion. Hope this clears it up for you…
I think you have an irrational fear of people who have the unmitigated gall to believe in something you don’t. You think Jesus is a fictional character, fine. We got that the first time you posted it. You have the right to post whatever you want, but saying it 43 times in the same thread with no one asking you kinda makes you look pathetic.
[/quote]
…and i’ll say it again until it sinks in, and you grow up…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
rainjack wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…i think you’re intentionally misunderstanding me. People are able to willingly fool themselves into believing that all kinds of nonsense is true, in order to sooth certain insecurities. It is this ability that is taken advantage of by religion and politicians to reach specific goals: accumulation of wealth, controlling the masses and maintaining/expanding power. This delusion is so powerful that a believer will even kill to protect the delusion or the central proponent of the delusion. Hope this clears it up for you…
I think you have an irrational fear of people who have the unmitigated gall to believe in something you don’t. You think Jesus is a fictional character, fine. We got that the first time you posted it. You have the right to post whatever you want, but saying it 43 times in the same thread with no one asking you kinda makes you look pathetic.
…and i’ll say it again until it sinks in, and you grow up…
[/quote]
I don’t think your fear and ignorance is going to sink in to anyone but the equally fearful and ignorant.
Since when is “growing up” signified by being brow beaten by someone who won’t shut the fuck up about his fear of religion?
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I think that what Jesus was trying to do was, not condemn or oppose any government, but to change mankind. A more just government (like the USA) would follow as people changed.
He was going after causes, not the symptoms (bad governance).
It would be interesting to see irrefutable proof that Jesus lived. Perhaps even just a mention in Tacitus or Josephus would be enough?
IMHO.[/quote]
To me Jesus is about morals. Morals makes us float. What else could this brain capasity, 100%, be good for than an attempt to create a higher level of organization in life? Isn’t that was life strifes for?
God bless america and all that, never mind the shadows. A goal must always be slightly out of reach, mustn’t it?
[quote]…so there’s this fictional character that can save your eternal soul from damnation if you follow his criteria for clean living? In other words, he’s saving you from himself, isn’t he? And people believe this crap? That’s a helluva scam he’s got going on there!
But wait, isn’t this guy supposed to be dead for over 2000 years already? No, he ís dead but not quite; he will wait for you after you’re dead and then judge you, and you have no way of knowing what the decision will be until that moment…
…and then to think i wonder why this world is so fucked up as it is. YOU BELIEVERS ARE ALL DELUSIONAL!
lol
[/quote]
This is pretty much the standard regurgitated garbage from the various Dawkinsesque websites out there. Rebuttals exist, if you’ve got the curiosity. Leading you to that water doesn’t interest me. I’ve noticed Dawkins has demonstrated little interest in the critiques that exist of his latest Christian God Two Minutes Hates, which mostly amount to “argument by outrage”.
The latest batch of atheists are under the delusion that such arguments prove anything. I’ve noticed that these authors have managed to scam quite a bit of money from the pseudo-intellectuals that buy their philosophically-shallow crap by convincing them that the real “thinkers” are all atheists like them.
The high priests of New Atheism are certainly laughing all the way to the bank. Most of their stuff is just a rip-off of Bertrand Russell’s writings 50 years ago, which Van Til, Bahnsen et al have already rebutted - nothing new, but I shouldn’t be surprised that everything old is new to the (rather insular) atheists of today:
Historical arguments that Jesus never existed are, of course, more interesting.
Too many Christianphobes in this thread, in my opinion. That means u r christians in the closet. Omg, debate is now over, because you guys are really christians on the down low…
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Too many Christianphobes in this thread, in my opinion. That means u r christians in the closet. Omg, debate is now over, because you guys are really christians on the down low…[/quote]
[quote]John S. wrote:
His belief had nothing to do with the war. Nor does my belief have anything to do with supporting it. You are delusional if you think without religion there would be peace.[/quote]
[quote]Makavali wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…you are going to the same place i’m going after we’re dead: nowhere (-:
I may not be super religious or anything, but even I think this is a stupid statement. You can’t possibly know what happens after death.[/quote]
…there’s no evidence that suggests a soul exists. That means that when the body ceases to function, the faculties that make up our subjective presence cease to exist too. Since no-one has ever reached out after their death in a verifiable way, the logical conclusion is that there’s nothing after death…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Makavali wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…you are going to the same place i’m going after we’re dead: nowhere (-:
I may not be super religious or anything, but even I think this is a stupid statement. You can’t possibly know what happens after death.
…there’s no evidence that suggests a soul exists. That means that when the body ceases to function, the faculties that make up our subjective presence cease to exist too. Since no-one has ever reached out after their death in a verifiable way, the logical conclusion is that there’s nothing after death…
[/quote]
So basically, you don’t know. I think the chances are higher of use becoming worm food too, but I don’t rule out the possibility of another plane of existence.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
John S. wrote:
His belief had nothing to do with the war. Nor does my belief have anything to do with supporting it. You are delusional if you think without religion there would be peace.
Not total peace, but probably more.[/quote]
People will always look for ways to justify killing people, Religion just happened to be one of those ways. You take that away these same people will find another excuse to kill.
[quote]John S. wrote:
Makavali wrote:
John S. wrote:
His belief had nothing to do with the war. Nor does my belief have anything to do with supporting it. You are delusional if you think without religion there would be peace.
Not total peace, but probably more.
People will always look for ways to justify killing people, Religion just happened to be one of those ways. You take that away these same people will find another excuse to kill.[/quote]
They might, but I still think less killing would happen without (organized) religion. I’ve never heard of an Agnostic taking up the sword in the name of God.