Christ Would Oppose USA?

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]John S. wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
John S. wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
John S. wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Chushin wrote:
ephrem wrote:
YOU BELIEVERS ARE ALL DELUSIONAL!

And yet, so much nicer as people than you…

As long as we believe the same set of fables as you.

The only people I see being douche bags to people who don’t think the same as them are the Atheists. You can find a few examples of christians doing that but they are few and far between.

Yeah ok, so the fact that you (I assume based on the widely accepted tennets of your faith,) think that I will go to hell and be tortured for eternity is not at all douche baggy then?

And lets not forget Islam, lots of tolerance for other beliefs there.

Do I know you are going there? Yes. But its your choice I don’t look at you like your stupid or whatever you look at me like because I don’t think we are the product of chance.

I think everyone understands that Islam is the religion of violence.

You were attacking Christianity with your post lets not start playing this game where you are going to try and pull up other religions we all know which one you ment.

No I hold all religions in equal disdain. I respect your right to your beliefs but that doesn’t mean I respect your beliefs.

Back to the original question, were there an actual Jesus Christ (which I doubt) and were he to arrive in the USA today, I guess he would be confused by all the crosses, and totally confused by what he saw going on in Churches, he would probably end up feeling more at home in a Mosque or an Orthadox church.

In terms of the US government, I think he would be horrified by the things done in his name.

If Jesus was to show up today there is no doubt in my mind he would understand the crosses.

How would he be confused on whats going on in churches? Talking about the bible really wouldn’t confuse him.

Terrible things where done in Gods name in his time and he denouced all of them. God would not oppose the USA that isn’t his thing he doesn’t judge everyone together like you choose to do he judges the individual.
[/quote]

Given that he died (if you believe that he lived) several hundred years before the bible was written and given that he was Jewish, to wander into a Church and see images of himself everywhere and have people ascribing sayings and actions to him that he would remember as fables that he was taught as a child I would say that he would be pretty confused.

And I was referring to the fact that he would denounce individuals (such as Bush) who have done things in his name.

[John_S1]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
John S. wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
John S. wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
John S. wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Chushin wrote:
ephrem wrote:
YOU BELIEVERS ARE ALL DELUSIONAL!

And yet, so much nicer as people than you…

As long as we believe the same set of fables as you.

The only people I see being douche bags to people who don’t think the same as them are the Atheists. You can find a few examples of christians doing that but they are few and far between.

Yeah ok, so the fact that you (I assume based on the widely accepted tennets of your faith,) think that I will go to hell and be tortured for eternity is not at all douche baggy then?

And lets not forget Islam, lots of tolerance for other beliefs there.

Do I know you are going there? Yes. But its your choice I don’t look at you like your stupid or whatever you look at me like because I don’t think we are the product of chance.

I think everyone understands that Islam is the religion of violence.

You were attacking Christianity with your post lets not start playing this game where you are going to try and pull up other religions we all know which one you ment.

No I hold all religions in equal disdain. I respect your right to your beliefs but that doesn’t mean I respect your beliefs.

Back to the original question, were there an actual Jesus Christ (which I doubt) and were he to arrive in the USA today, I guess he would be confused by all the crosses, and totally confused by what he saw going on in Churches, he would probably end up feeling more at home in a Mosque or an Orthadox church.

In terms of the US government, I think he would be horrified by the things done in his name.

If Jesus was to show up today there is no doubt in my mind he would understand the crosses.

How would he be confused on whats going on in churches? Talking about the bible really wouldn’t confuse him.

Terrible things where done in Gods name in his time and he denouced all of them. God would not oppose the USA that isn’t his thing he doesn’t judge everyone together like you choose to do he judges the individual.

Given that he died (if you believe that he lived) several hundred years before the bible was written and given that he was Jewish, to wander into a Church and see images of himself everywhere and have people ascribing sayings and actions to him that he would remember as fables that he was taught as a child I would say that he would be pretty confused.

And I was referring to the fact that he would denounce individuals (such as Bush) who have done things in his name.[/quote]

What do you mean we put actions that he did as fables he learned as a child?

Why would he denounce bush? This fuck bush bandwagon has gone on far enough.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]John S. wrote:
What do you mean we put actions that he did as fables he learned as a child?
[/quote]

the fact that most of the stories that you read in the NT about Jesus are just recyclings of stories from the OT and other sources about other people.

Why would he denounce bush? This fuck bush bandwagon has gone on far enough.

Because Bush envoked Gods name in going to war, he claims divine inspiration for actions that are not exactly Christian. He is not alone, he is a recent example.

[Gkhan]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Yeah ok, so the fact that you (I assume based on the widely accepted tennets of your faith,) think that I will go to hell and be tortured for eternity is not at all douche baggy then?

And lets not forget Islam, lots of tolerance for other beliefs there.[/quote]

We have no idea whether or not you are going to hell.

Hell is for people like Mao Tse Tung, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and many many others who committed crimes against humanity and it is gives comfort to victims who believe that although these people did not suffer any consequences on earth during their lifetimes, they are suffering eternally for their crimes.

That’s the reason for the belief in hell. Whether it is a real place or a concept, it exists because of all the injustice in the world.

[John_S1]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
John S. wrote:
What do you mean we put actions that he did as fables he learned as a child?

the fact that most of the stories that you read in the NT about Jesus are just recyclings of stories from the OT and other sources about other people.

Why would he denounce bush? This fuck bush bandwagon has gone on far enough.

Because Bush envoked Gods name in going to war, he claims divine inspiration for actions that are not exactly Christian. He is not alone, he is a recent example.[/quote]

Alright, Jesus was the fulfillment of the prophecies in the old testament. To fulfill them he kind of had to do them.

Bush’s actions saved millions of people, just ask the Kurds sounds pretty Christian to me.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]John S. wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
John S. wrote:
What do you mean we put actions that he did as fables he learned as a child?

the fact that most of the stories that you read in the NT about Jesus are just recyclings of stories from the OT and other sources about other people.
[/quote]

Jesus who? Seriously there are records of literally thousands of people with the first name of Jesus alive at the time in question, this is because Jesus means saviour. Which one specifically are you referring to? Where was he born? What proof is there that he actully lived? What proof is there that he fulfilled any prophecy?

[quote]

Why would he denounce bush? This fuck bush bandwagon has gone on far enough.

Because Bush envoked Gods name in going to war, he claims divine inspiration for actions that are not exactly Christian. He is not alone, he is a recent example.

Alright, Jesus was the fulfillment of the prophecies in the old testament. To fulfill them he kind of had to do them.

Bush’s actions saved millions of people, just ask the Kurds sounds pretty Christian to me.[/quote]

Actually it sounds pretty Islamic or maybe Jewish. If it were Christian surely he would have used non-violent means to save them. Or accepted that they had gone to meet their maker and that their attackers would have to face up to their actions at judgement day.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Yeah ok, so the fact that you (I assume based on the widely accepted tennets of your faith,) think that I will go to hell and be tortured for eternity is not at all douche baggy then?

And lets not forget Islam, lots of tolerance for other beliefs there.

We have no idea whether or not you are going to hell.

Hell is for people like Mao Tse Tung, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and many many others who committed crimes against humanity and it is gives comfort to victims who believe that although these people did not suffer any consequences on earth during their lifetimes, they are suffering eternally for their crimes.

That’s the reason for the belief in hell. Whether it is a real place or a concept, it exists because of all the injustice in the world.[/quote]

Oh, you have your own religion I see, I prefer yours to Christianity however we were actually talking about Christianity which quite clearly states that if I do not believe in God then God will torture me for eternity.

[John_S1]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
John S. wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
John S. wrote:
What do you mean we put actions that he did as fables he learned as a child?

the fact that most of the stories that you read in the NT about Jesus are just recyclings of stories from the OT and other sources about other people.

Jesus who? Seriously there are records of literally thousands of people with the first name of Jesus alive at the time in question, this is because Jesus means saviour. Which one specifically are you referring to? Where was he born? What proof is there that he actully lived? What proof is there that he fulfilled any prophecy?

Why would he denounce bush? This fuck bush bandwagon has gone on far enough.

Because Bush envoked Gods name in going to war, he claims divine inspiration for actions that are not exactly Christian. He is not alone, he is a recent example.

Alright, Jesus was the fulfillment of the prophecies in the old testament. To fulfill them he kind of had to do them.

Bush’s actions saved millions of people, just ask the Kurds sounds pretty Christian to me.

Actually it sounds pretty Islamic or maybe Jewish. If it were Christian surely he would have used non-violent means to save them. Or accepted that they had gone to meet their maker and that their attackers would have to face up to their actions at judgement day.[/quote]

My proof is in this book called the bible perhaps you should read it sometime you may then begin to know what you are talking about.

Don’t pretend to know what Christians would do. This was not a war to spread religion like Islam so don’t compare them.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]John S. wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
John S. wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
John S. wrote:
What do you mean we put actions that he did as fables he learned as a child?

the fact that most of the stories that you read in the NT about Jesus are just recyclings of stories from the OT and other sources about other people.

Jesus who? Seriously there are records of literally thousands of people with the first name of Jesus alive at the time in question, this is because Jesus means saviour.

Which one specifically are you referring to? Where was he born? What proof is there that he actully lived? What proof is there that he fulfilled any prophecy?

Why would he denounce bush? This fuck bush bandwagon has gone on far enough.

Because Bush envoked Gods name in going to war, he claims divine inspiration for actions that are not exactly Christian. He is not alone, he is a recent example.

Alright, Jesus was the fulfillment of the prophecies in the old testament. To fulfill them he kind of had to do them.

Bush’s actions saved millions of people, just ask the Kurds sounds pretty Christian to me.

Actually it sounds pretty Islamic or maybe Jewish. If it were Christian surely he would have used non-violent means to save them. Or accepted that they had gone to meet their maker and that their attackers would have to face up to their actions at judgement day.

My proof is in this book called the bible perhaps you should read it sometime you may then begin to know what you are talking about.

Don’t pretend to know what Christians would do. This was not a war to spread religion like Islam so don’t compare them.[/quote]

OK, so you don’t want to answer my specific questions. How about this one. Which bible are you referring to? There are thousands of differing and contradicting versions. Which one contains this truth of which you speak?

You suggest that I read it, I have read many different bibles. I have also read a number of texts that are contemporary but were excluded by the first council of Nicea. Maybe you should actually try doing some reading, then you would actually know what it is that you claim to believe.

[Gkhan]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Oh, you have your own religion I see, I prefer yours to Christianity however we were actually talking about Christianity which quite clearly states that if I do not believe in God then God will torture me for eternity.[/quote]

It’s not my own religion. It is the basis for a place called hell, real or not.

All religions have some kind of afterlife to atone for sins. Some believe you go to a place like hell, others believe you end up right back here.

P.S. ever hear of Purgatory?

[Gkhan]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
You suggest that I read it, I have read many different bibles. I have also read a number of texts that are contemporary but were excluded by the first council of Nicea. Maybe you should actually try doing some reading, then you would actually know what it is that you claim to believe.[/quote]

John S. said to read the Bible, not Gnostic texts, not Manichaeism, or Mandaeanism texts, not the Apocryphon, or the text of the Nag Hammadi. Those have nothing to do with Christianity as it is practiced today.

We are talking about Christianity here, right?

[Gkhan]

About Christians using non-violent means to help the Kurds or sitting around idlily hoping their attackers would go to hell when they die…

Being a Christian is not a suicide pact. If it was the religion would not have survived all these centuries.

[Makavali]

[quote]John S. wrote:
Dr_Razor wrote:
WW2 had strong basis in the eradication of Jews.

They needed a scape goat to blame the economy on and the Jews just happened to be the group he decided to blame.[/quote]

“What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and the reproduction of our race … so that our people may mature for the fulfilment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe. … Peoples that bastardize themselves, or let themselves be bastardized, sin against the will of eternal Providence.”

– Adolf Hitler

[Makavali]

[quote]John S. wrote:
Dr_Razor wrote:
WW2 had strong basis in the eradication of Jews.

They needed a scape goat to blame the economy on and the Jews just happened to be the group he decided to blame.[/quote]

“His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine.”

“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”

– Good ol’ Adolf talking about Jews

“[Hitler] carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of God. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of God…”

– John Toland (Hitler’s biographer)

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
You suggest that I read it, I have read many different bibles. I have also read a number of texts that are contemporary but were excluded by the first council of Nicea. Maybe you should actually try doing some reading, then you would actually know what it is that you claim to believe.

John S. said to read the Bible, not Gnostic texts, not Manichaeism, or Mandaeanism texts, not the Apocryphon, or the text of the Nag Hammadi. Those have nothing to do with Christianity as it is practiced today.

We are talking about Christianity here, right?[/quote]

I am, not sure if you are given that you don’t think I will go to hell for being a non-believer.

I ask again, which Bible? There are lots of them to choose from, I a mean are we talking Peshitta, the Diatessaron or a Vetus Latina or Latin Vulgate? Possibly the Codex Vaticanus, Codex Sinaiticus or Codex Alexandrinus?

Maybe he follows the Orthodox Cannon and includes a number of books not included in the western cannon. My guess is that he is actually referring to the King James bible which is widely agreed by textual critics to be one of the worst available translations.

[Gkhan]

If you are a non believer, what do you care where you go?

I said “see Purgatory.”

Does the Bible translation alter what it teaches?

[Gkhan]

[quote]Makavali wrote:
John S. wrote:
Dr_Razor wrote:
WW2 had strong basis in the eradication of Jews.

They needed a scape goat to blame the economy on and the Jews just happened to be the group he decided to blame.

“His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine.”

“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”

– Good ol’ Adolf talking about Jews

“[Hitler] carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of God. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of God…”

– John Toland (Hitler’s biographer)[/quote]

Make up your mind Mak, was Hitler obcessed with killing Jews because they defiled the Ayran race, or was it because they killed God?

I would say it was a mixture of both, plus Nietzsche’s philosophy, Darwinism and the 19th Century Occult teachings.

[John_S1]

[quote]Makavali wrote:
John S. wrote:
Dr_Razor wrote:
WW2 had strong basis in the eradication of Jews.

They needed a scape goat to blame the economy on and the Jews just happened to be the group he decided to blame.

“His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine.”

“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”

– Good ol’ Adolf talking about Jews

“[Hitler] carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of God. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of God…”

– John Toland (Hitler’s biographer)[/quote]

Adolf targeted them because they were rich in a poor country. See when people get poor they blame everyone but themselves. So he used Gods name to get the poor irrational Christians who have never read the bible behind him.

If you begin to study what he did it had nothing to do with religion. Hitler didn’t care if you where Christian muslim Hindew Atheist, All he cared about is that you where a blond hair blue eyed German.

[John_S1]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
You suggest that I read it, I have read many different bibles. I have also read a number of texts that are contemporary but were excluded by the first council of Nicea. Maybe you should actually try doing some reading, then you would actually know what it is that you claim to believe.

John S. said to read the Bible, not Gnostic texts, not Manichaeism, or Mandaeanism texts, not the Apocryphon, or the text of the Nag Hammadi. Those have nothing to do with Christianity as it is practiced today.

We are talking about Christianity here, right?

I am, not sure if you are given that you don’t think I will go to hell for being a non-believer.

I ask again, which Bible? There are lots of them to choose from, I a mean are we talking Peshitta, the Diatessaron or a Vetus Latina or Latin Vulgate? Possibly the Codex Vaticanus, Codex Sinaiticus or Codex Alexandrinus?

Maybe he follows the Orthodox Cannon and includes a number of books not included in the western cannon. My guess is that he is actually referring to the King James bible which is widely agreed by textual critics to be one of the worst available translations.[/quote]

New International Version(NIV) is what I read.

[Makavali]

My point is that religion is very easy to use to manipulate the masses. It shows just how weak minded a lot of religious people are.