Christ Would Oppose USA?

[belligerent]

[quote]rainjack wrote:
belligerent wrote:
I don’t think Christ would even bother to get politically involved. Instead of condemning governments, he would simply condemn everybody who weren’t his followers.

Please find one passage where Jesus condemns anyone but the religious zealots. [/quote]

You miss the point. Jesus is not portrayed as a political figure concerned with the activities of governments. Instead, he’s solely concerned with religious matters. His message is “believe in me or burn in hell” not anything to do with how government should be run.

[rainjack]

[quote]belligerent wrote:
rainjack wrote:
belligerent wrote:
I don’t think Christ would even bother to get politically involved. Instead of condemning governments, he would simply condemn everybody who weren’t his followers.

Please find one passage where Jesus condemns anyone but the religious zealots.

You miss the point. Jesus is not portrayed as a political figure concerned with the activities of governments. Instead, he’s solely concerned with religious matters. His message is “believe in me or burn in hell” not anything to do with how government should be run.[/quote]

You miss the point I am making: you don’t know shit about his message.

It doesn’t matter to me one way or another what you think about Jesus. But if you are going to act like you know what the fuck you are talking about - maybe you should actually know what the fuck you are talking about.

[Mufasa]

[quote]belligerent wrote:
You miss the point. Jesus is not portrayed as a political figure concerned with the activities of governments. Instead, he’s solely concerned with religious matters. His message is “believe in me or burn in hell” not anything to do with how government should be run.[/quote]

Wow…

That wasn’t even REMOTELY the message…

Mufasa

[SteelyD]

Why not start here?

“Render unto Caesar what is Caesars and unto God what is God’s”

[Varqanir]

[quote]belligerent wrote:

Jesus is not portrayed as a political figure concerned with the activities of governments. Instead, he’s solely concerned with religious matters. His message is “believe in me or burn in hell” not anything to do with how government should be run.[/quote]

I’ll have to agree with Rainjack and Mufasa on this one.

Belligerent, any intellectual high ground that atheism can claim over religion should be predicated on actual knowledge, not on another set of ignorant beliefs.

As you would have known had you actually read the gospels, Jesus never said anything resembling “believe in me or burn in hell.”

What he actually said was:

[i]"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.”[/i]

(Gospel of Matthew, Sermon on the Mount)

What this means, Belligerent, is that if you call someone an ass clown on the Politics forum, and then post “I’d hit it” about a scantly-clad vixen on the Sex and the Male Animal forum, then you [b]WILL[/b] burn in the fires of hell. Regardless of your beliefs in Jesus.

Actually, I wonder how many of us on T-Nation are in danger of hellfire, under those criteria.

Gulp.

[rainjack]

Actually, Varq - I think the passage you quoted has very little to do with what will get you sent to hell.

Seems to me Jesus was using some sarcasm to show the futility of thinking you are perfect just because you obeyed the 10 commandments.

I’m not going to get into a discussion about what will get you into, or out of, hell - but in the scheme of things, I really doubt God gives a shit about this site.

[Varqanir]

And reading a bit further on the Sermon on the Mount, we gain a clue as to how a President Jesus would conduct domestic and foreign policy:

[i]"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
"Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
"Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.
“Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”

"You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

"You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

“If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”[/i]

[Varqanir]

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Seems to me Jesus was using some sarcasm to show the futility of thinking you are perfect just because you obeyed the 10 commandments.
[/quote]

Well, in that sense, I was emulating Christ.

[rainjack]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Seems to me Jesus was using some sarcasm to show the futility of thinking you are perfect just because you obeyed the 10 commandments.

Well, in that sense, I was emulating Christ.[/quote]

Aren’t YOU special?

[Varqanir]

[quote]rainjack wrote:

Aren’t YOU special? [/quote]

Haha! Well, you know, I try.

[kaaleppi]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

I’ll have to agree with Rainjack and Mufasa on this one.

Belligerent, any intellectual high ground that atheism can claim over religion should be predicated on actual knowledge, not on another set of ignorant beliefs.

As you would have known had you actually read the gospels, Jesus never said anything resembling “believe in me or burn in hell.”

What he actually said was:

[i]"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.”[/i]

(Gospel of Matthew, Sermon on the Mount)

What this means, Belligerent, is that if you call someone an ass clown on the Politics forum, and then post “I’d hit it” about a scantly-clad vixen on the Sex and the Male Animal forum, then you [b]WILL[/b] burn in the fires of hell. Regardless of your beliefs in Jesus.

Actually, I wonder how many of us on T-Nation are in danger of hellfire, under those criteria.

Gulp.[/quote]

I read this and remembered the speculations about Jesus being a gay or fucking Maria Magdalena. Now I have a Monty Pyhtonesque scene in my head where Jesus raves against temptation.

• And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away!

[Shaved]

[quote]rainjack wrote:
belligerent wrote:
rainjack wrote:
belligerent wrote:

It doesn’t matter to me one way or another what you think about Jesus. But if you are going to act like you know what the fuck you are talking about - maybe you should actually know what the fuck you are talking about. [/quote]

Fuck fuckitty fuck fuck fuck.

[PRCalDude]

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

“The solution to today’s problems can be found in a return to the call of the divine Prophets. The solution to these crises can be found in following the Prophets – they were sent by the Almighty, for the happiness of humanity.”

Since it is Ahmadinejad who said this, it is the last in the line of prophets who is offering the solutions to today’s problems. I prefer the solutions offered by ordinary sinners, thank you. Jesus agrees with me.

‘Give to the emperor what belongs to the emperor, and give to God what belongs to God.’[/quote]

For the win!

[PRCalDude]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
belligerent wrote:

Jesus is not portrayed as a political figure concerned with the activities of governments. Instead, he’s solely concerned with religious matters. His message is “believe in me or burn in hell” not anything to do with how government should be run.

I’ll have to agree with Rainjack and Mufasa on this one.

Belligerent, any intellectual high ground that atheism can claim over religion should be predicated on actual knowledge, not on another set of ignorant beliefs.

As you would have known had you actually read the gospels, Jesus never said anything resembling “believe in me or burn in hell.”

What he actually said was:

[i]"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.”[/i]

(Gospel of Matthew, Sermon on the Mount)

What this means, Belligerent, is that if you call someone an ass clown on the Politics forum, and then post “I’d hit it” about a scantly-clad vixen on the Sex and the Male Animal forum, then you [b]WILL[/b] burn in the fires of hell. Regardless of your beliefs in Jesus.

Actually, I wonder how many of us on T-Nation are in danger of hellfire, under those criteria.

Gulp.[/quote]

Yes, that’s the point - we all deserve hellfire under those criteria.

The “you have heard it said to you…, but I say to you” is Jesus critiquing various Jewish scholars’ exegeses of the Law. He wasn’t critiquing Roman government or anything like that. He was/is a religious figure.

It makes me happy when people actually READ the text they’re debating.

[ephrem]

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
belligerent wrote:

Jesus is not portrayed as a political figure concerned with the activities of governments. Instead, he’s solely concerned with religious matters. His message is “believe in me or burn in hell” not anything to do with how government should be run.

I’ll have to agree with Rainjack and Mufasa on this one.

Belligerent, any intellectual high ground that atheism can claim over religion should be predicated on actual knowledge, not on another set of ignorant beliefs.

As you would have known had you actually read the gospels, Jesus never said anything resembling “believe in me or burn in hell.”

What he actually said was:

[i]"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.”[/i]

(Gospel of Matthew, Sermon on the Mount)

What this means, Belligerent, is that if you call someone an ass clown on the Politics forum, and then post “I’d hit it” about a scantly-clad vixen on the Sex and the Male Animal forum, then you [b]WILL[/b] burn in the fires of hell. Regardless of your beliefs in Jesus.

Actually, I wonder how many of us on T-Nation are in danger of hellfire, under those criteria.

Gulp.

Yes, that’s the point - we all deserve hellfire under those criteria.

The “you have heard it said to you…, but I say to you” is Jesus critiquing various Jewish scholars’ exegeses of the Law. He wasn’t critiquing Roman government or anything like that. He was/is a religious figure.

It makes me happy when people actually READ the text they’re debating. [/quote]

…so there’s this fictional character that can save your eternal soul from damnation if you follow his criteria for clean living? In other words, he’s saving you from himself, isn’t he? And people believe this crap? That’s a helluva scam he’s got going on there! But wait, isn’t this guy supposed to be dead for over 2000 years already? No, he ís dead but not quite; he will wait for you after you’re dead and then judge you, and you have no way of knowing what the decision will be until that moment…

…and then to think i wonder why this world is so fucked up as it is. YOU BELIEVERS ARE ALL DELUSIONAL!

lol

[John_S1]

[quote]ephrem wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
belligerent wrote:

Jesus is not portrayed as a political figure concerned with the activities of governments. Instead, he’s solely concerned with religious matters. His message is “believe in me or burn in hell” not anything to do with how government should be run.

I’ll have to agree with Rainjack and Mufasa on this one.

Belligerent, any intellectual high ground that atheism can claim over religion should be predicated on actual knowledge, not on another set of ignorant beliefs.

As you would have known had you actually read the gospels, Jesus never said anything resembling “believe in me or burn in hell.”

What he actually said was:

[i]"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.”[/i]

(Gospel of Matthew, Sermon on the Mount)

What this means, Belligerent, is that if you call someone an ass clown on the Politics forum, and then post “I’d hit it” about a scantly-clad vixen on the Sex and the Male Animal forum, then you [b]WILL[/b] burn in the fires of hell. Regardless of your beliefs in Jesus.

Actually, I wonder how many of us on T-Nation are in danger of hellfire, under those criteria.

Gulp.

Yes, that’s the point - we all deserve hellfire under those criteria.

The “you have heard it said to you…, but I say to you” is Jesus critiquing various Jewish scholars’ exegeses of the Law. He wasn’t critiquing Roman government or anything like that. He was/is a religious figure.

It makes me happy when people actually READ the text they’re debating.

…so there’s this fictional character that can save your eternal soul from damnation if you follow his criteria for clean living? In other words, he’s saving you from himself, isn’t he? And people believe this crap? That’s a helluva scam he’s got going on there! But wait, isn’t this guy supposed to be dead for over 2000 years already? No, he ís dead but not quite; he will wait for you after you’re dead and then judge you, and you have no way of knowing what the decision will be until that moment…

…and then to think i wonder why this world is so fucked up as it is. YOU BELIEVERS ARE ALL DELUSIONAL!

lol

[/quote]

Jesus asks us to believe he is the son of God. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god that whoever believes in him will not parish but have eternal life.

We do not have to be perfect people for we can not be. Anyone who accepts Jesus as there lord and savior knows exactly where there going.

[ephrem]

…you are going to the same place i’m going after we’re dead: nowhere (-:

[John_S1]

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…you are going to the same place i’m going after we’re dead: nowhere (-: [/quote]

You and I will be going to two different places, not because of are actions but because of are beliefs.

[ephrem]

[quote]John S. wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…you are going to the same place i’m going after we’re dead: nowhere (-:

You and I will be going to two different places, not because of are actions but because of are beliefs.[/quote]

…you meant to write ‘our’ instead of ‘are’, right? Look, altough i don’t want to ridicule you for what you believe, and i understand the kind of value they can have for a person, i just can’t wrap my head around the fact a believer is willingly fooling himself in order to sooth certain insecurities. That ís delusional, and it is this ability to delude people into believing something is true [when it’s not] that’s fucking us all over…