[quote]Varqanir wrote:
No, they had a census and kept records for taxation’s sake, same as any government (sorry, couldn’t resist).
[/quote]
OK-- I deserved that
His birth certificate was right there next to Obama’s!..
Very few serious folks could claim to know when the man was born, but the events leading to and after the crucifixion as written by the gospels (the actual miracle notwithstanding), as well as other physical evidence are accepted by many historians and scholars as sufficient that the man lived.
But, then again, if WikiPedia takes a hard-line, it must be so
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
No, they had a census and kept records for taxation’s sake, same as any government (sorry, couldn’t resist).
OK-- I deserved that
His birth certificate was right there next to Obama’s!..
Very few serious folks could claim to know when the man was born, but the events leading to and after the crucifixion as written by the gospels (the actual miracle notwithstanding), as well as other physical evidence are accepted by many historians and scholars as sufficient that the man lived.
But, then again, if WikiPedia takes a hard-line, it must be so ;)[/quote]
…the gospels are written after the fact by people who weren’t there and had to rely on hearsay many years after Jesus’ supposed death. There is no physical evidence to support Jesus’ actual existence. Appealing to authority by claiming scholars accept beliefs as evidence is not evidence, and does not give credence to the christian Jesus myth. Jesus is an archetype, a symbol if you will. An often abused and misunderstood symbol (-:
[quote]rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
“If Christ was on Earth today undoubtedly he would stand with the people in opposition to bullying, ill-tempered and expansionist powers,” Mr Ahmadinejad will say, according to a transcript of the speech.
Related Links
"If Christ was on Earth today undoubtedly he would hoist the banner of justice and love for humanity to oppose warmongers, occupiers, terrorists and bullies the world over.
“If Christ was on Earth today undoubtedly he would fight against the tyrannical policies of prevailing global economic and political systems, as He did in His lifetime.”
“The solution to today’s problems can be found in a return to the call of the divine Prophets. The solution to these crises can be found in following the Prophets – they were sent by the Almighty, for the happiness of humanity.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5394204.ece
Obviously, Americans would be biased to answer this question honestly so what do non-Americans think?
Happy Christmas!
Show me where Christ opposed any government. He was against the legalism of the Jewish religion, but I don't recall him coming out against any government.
Why would he do so now?
[/quote]
Excellent point
I’m sure Jesus would be against the use of force by the state against individuals. Wether that state be the USA or Iran.
As a whole, I think it would be safe to say the US is far nicer to it’s citizens than Iran.
Ahmadinejad is in a position to change that. Why doesn’t he?
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
I’m sure Jesus would be against the use of force by the state against individuals. Wether that state be the USA or Iran.
As a whole, I think it would be safe to say the US is far nicer to it’s citizens than Iran.
Ahmadinejad is in a position to change that. Why doesn’t he?[/quote]
Was Jesus against the Roman empire? They used force. Find me a quote from Jesus denouncing the Roman Imperialistic pigs. You won’t find any.
I’m sure that Jesus understood that change came at the individual level - not the political.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
I’m sure Jesus would be against the use of force by the state against individuals. Wether that state be the USA or Iran.
As a whole, I think it would be safe to say the US is far nicer to it’s citizens than Iran.
Ahmadinejad is in a position to change that. Why doesn’t he?
Was Jesus against the Roman empire? They used force. Find me a quote from Jesus denouncing the Roman Imperialistic pigs. You won’t find any.
I’m sure that Jesus understood that change came at the individual level - not the political. [/quote]
…Romans, at that time, were pantheists. They were worshipping a pantheon of gods, and only when they saw the potential of monotheism for better crowdcontrol, they adopted christianity. A nation that thinks it’s christian and has a [former] president that is a proud born again christian, should at least try to resemble everything their religion’s main proponent stands for. This, it doesn’t do. At this, it fails miserably. Because of this, if Jesus ever did exist, he’d be thoroughly ashamed of what is, and has been done, in his name…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
I’m sure Jesus would be against the use of force by the state against individuals. Wether that state be the USA or Iran.
As a whole, I think it would be safe to say the US is far nicer to it’s citizens than Iran.
Ahmadinejad is in a position to change that. Why doesn’t he?
Was Jesus against the Roman empire? They used force. Find me a quote from Jesus denouncing the Roman Imperialistic pigs. You won’t find any.
I’m sure that Jesus understood that change came at the individual level - not the political.
…Romans, at that time, were pantheists. They were worshipping a pantheon of gods, and only when they saw the potential of monotheism for better crowdcontrol, they adopted christianity. A nation that thinks it’s christian and has a [former] president that is a proud born again christian, should at least try to resemble everything their religion’s main proponent stands for. This, it doesn’t do. At this, it fails miserably. Because of this, if Jesus ever did exist, he’d be thoroughly ashamed of what is, and has been done, in his name…
[/quote]
You have no clue what Jesus would, or wouldn’t do. He never came out against Rome. He never came out against Egypt. He never took any political stand whatsoever.
You are free to worship in any way you please in the US.
Bush was not the only President to openly profess his faith. Why does a man’s faith bother you so much?
[quote]rainjack wrote:
ephrem wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
I’m sure Jesus would be against the use of force by the state against individuals. Wether that state be the USA or Iran.
As a whole, I think it would be safe to say the US is far nicer to it’s citizens than Iran.
Ahmadinejad is in a position to change that. Why doesn’t he?
Was Jesus against the Roman empire? They used force. Find me a quote from Jesus denouncing the Roman Imperialistic pigs. You won’t find any.
I’m sure that Jesus understood that change came at the individual level - not the political.
…Romans, at that time, were pantheists. They were worshipping a pantheon of gods, and only when they saw the potential of monotheism for better crowdcontrol, they adopted christianity. A nation that thinks it’s christian and has a [former] president that is a proud born again christian, should at least try to resemble everything their religion’s main proponent stands for. This, it doesn’t do. At this, it fails miserably. Because of this, if Jesus ever did exist, he’d be thoroughly ashamed of what is, and has been done, in his name…
You have no clue what Jesus would, or wouldn’t do. He never came out against Rome. He never came out against Egypt. He never took any political stand whatsoever.
You are free to worship in any way you please in the US.
Bush was not the only President to openly profess his faith. Why does a man’s faith bother you so much? [/quote]
…when a president of a powerful nation get’s winning votes by professing to be a born again christian, which means he’s bound to uphold the values and teachings of the leader of that cult, and then goes and does things that are the complete opposite of those teachings, it’s safe to assume [if the leader of the cult had existed in the first place] his saviour isn’t too pleased with what has been done in his name…
“The solution to today’s problems can be found in a return to the call of the divine Prophets. The solution to these crises can be found in following the Prophets – they were sent by the Almighty, for the happiness of humanity.”
[/quote]
Since it is Ahmadinejad who said this, it is the last in the line of prophets who is offering the solutions to today’s problems. I prefer the solutions offered by ordinary sinners, thank you. Jesus agrees with me.
‘Give to the emperor what belongs to the emperor, and give to God what belongs to God.’
…when a president of a powerful nation get’s winning votes by professing to be a born again christian, which means he’s bound to uphold the values and teachings of the leader of that cult, and then goes and does things that are the complete opposite of those teachings, it’s safe to assume [if the leader of the cult had existed in the first place] his saviour isn’t too pleased with what has been done in his name…
[/quote]
ALGore professed the same thing. So did Clinton. Clinton and Gore BOTH stumped in churches.
You don’t have a fucking clue about what you are trying to say.
Jesus was never concerned with leaders of anything outside of the Jewish leaders which were hardly a political force.
You have a hatred of anything religious, and you can’t wait to tear someone down for not being perfect. Most particularly Bush. You seem to have contracted a convenient case of intellectual amnesia wrt all the presidents up to Bush.
Besides - you hate religion - what the fuck should it matter to you?
How can someone who doesn’t even acknowledge that Jesus existed have the fucking balls to tell me what he would or wouldn’t say.
Stupid shit like the feces coming from your keyboard really pisses me off.
I don’t think Christ would even bother to get politically involved. Instead of condemning governments, he would simply condemn everybody who weren’t his followers.
[quote]belligerent wrote:
I don’t think Christ would even bother to get politically involved. Instead of condemning governments, he would simply condemn everybody who weren’t his followers.[/quote]
Please find one passage where Jesus condemns anyone but the religious zealots.
As a doubting lutheran christian, feel free to call me agnostic, I really wouldn’t care what Jesus had to say about the US.
I’m northeren european so all religion mixed with politics just makes us cringe.
And I know Denmark has a state religion, but it doesn’t have any effect on the politics of the country.
For a lack of a better phrase to describe this thread: jesus christ…
