[quote]pookie wrote:
Garrett W. wrote:
A “good quality protein powder” and some malto or glucose will not be near as good as Surge.
Surge uses whey hydrolysates. Grow! uses some micellar casein. A type that should NEVER be used in PWO. You want something quick absrobing.
Malto+Hydrolysates+BCAA+Glutamine would be like 90% effective.
Whey+glucose would be barely better than just eating food after.
The ingredients of Surge list d-glucose (AKA dextrose), whey protein hydrolysate and maltodextrine. Ingredients are listed in order of quantity, so Surge is mostly dextrose. My guess from the rest of the label would be 45g dextrose, 25g whey and 4g maltodextrin.
Using glutamine in the PWO would simply drive up the cost and contribute nothing more. Even the BCAAs would not be worth the additionnal cost.[/quote]
Do you read the stuff that is written on this site? In all seriousness. They have said that BCAA are included in Surge. Any reputable PWO drink has some BCAA in it.
Or perhaps the nutrition label which has BCAA and glutamine on it would give a slight hint on its contents.
However, yes if you mixed 25% hydrolysate/65% some high GI carb/10% BCAA and glutamine and compared it to Surge on a pure statistical difference. There would be very little. Assuming you acquire and mix in the same quantities and you don’t vomit up the concoction you make.
No one argues the at home drinks work. Its just the fact of getting the necessary ingredients and choking them down. You ever try whey hydrolysates straight? I havn’t. I don’t want to after hearing people talk about what they taste like.
It tastes like shit. Buy it from a site that uses flavorings in their mixes. Sure, it probably won’t be an “angel food cake” delight, but it’ll save ya money.
His point is if making a homebrew w/ hydrolyzed whey, buying BCAAs to mix in isn’t that necessary. With the hydrolyzed whey, you’re already getting a great protein w/ BCAAs. Eat a diet w/ a variety of proteins and you should be good to go. BCAAs around a workout will help, but for some the cost doesn’t justify using them.
[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
Do you read the stuff that is written on this site? In all seriousness. They have said that BCAA are included in Surge. Any reputable PWO drink has some BCAA in it. [/quote]
So? I simply said I didn’t believe the BCAAs to be worth their cost. Same for glutamine. There are even a couple of article on T-Nation on the uselessness of glutamine, unless you take giant doses. I’m pretty sure the 3g in a Surge serving will end up absorbed by your gut.
Well there you go, we agree. As for vomiting the concoction, you might also have noticed “sucralose” in the ingredients. Just add some artificial sweetener if the dextrose+malto isn’t enough to hide the taste of hydrolyzed whey.[/quote]
Who said anything about taking it straight? Mix it with the dextrose. Add some artificial sweetener if you’re too delicate to handle it.
I’m not knocking Surge. I was simply stating that it’s way too costly in Canada to be worth it and was proposing cheaper alternatives. If Biotest ever figures out a way of selling it here at a price similar to the US one, I’ll give it a try. I’d much rather have the convenience of a prepared mix than to have to do it myself, but I simply can’t afford to spend 15$ a day on Surge.
I agree with Nate, in that I trust Biotest. I think the people running the company have integrity, unlike many other supplement companies.
However, I have to disagree with Nate when it comes to his cheap imitation of a school girl giggling. Not only is it unsettling to me (and others), it is also behavior unbecoming a T-Man. I do commend him for not giggling in his most recent post. Perhaps he is getting over his fetish. One can only hope.
Yeah, Biotest is a great company. I’ll just be having a homebrew for less than a buck w/ the same ingredients. Throw in splenda to mask the taste. It’s not rocket science
Okay, first if you are going to giggle like a little girl you need to do it something like this:
Teeeehee heehee heee heeheeeet
Secondly, from off in left field. Maybe instead of mixing Nesquick or Hersheys with milk, how about Ovaltine? Or is that what you are talking about already? When I was in my teens, it was a major source of nutrition. Working at a deli, driving a 68 muscle car didn’t leave much $$$ for nutrition.
Looks like we agree after all. I just get touchy when people say “Throw in whey!”.
Some joker is gonna buy whey for 3 bucks a lbs. and wonder why is doesn’t work like a whey that should cost atleast 5 times as much.
I personally don’t take Surge either. But yeah… Always put in the artificial sweetner. Or some form of sweetening. It’ll lessen the gross factor.
Also… I wouldn’t use the word “delicate”. Most people after doing a heavy squat workout can barely choke down anything let alone a fairly revolting concoction. Its just a matter of making it edible.
[quote]cycomiko wrote:
Garrett W. wrote:
A “good quality protein powder” and some malto or glucose will not be near as good as Surge.
Surge uses whey hydrolysates. Grow! uses some micellar casein. A type that should NEVER be used in PWO. You want something quick absrobing.
Malto+Hydrolysates+BCAA+Glutamine would be like 90% effective.
Whey+glucose would be barely better than just eating food after.
Glad to see science is not your strongpoint[/quote]
You’re right. I switched my major. I’m sure the schooling the Czech. Republic (Well at the time it was probably Czechslovakia) is far superior. Could you please point out the errors I’m making?
[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
Also… I wouldn’t use the word “delicate”. Most people after doing a heavy squat workout can barely choke down anything let alone a fairly revolting concoction. Its just a matter of making it edible.[/quote]
Well if it comes back up, just catch it in the glass, add more sweetener and send it back down.
[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
Surge uses whey hydrolysates. Grow! uses some micellar casein. A type that should NEVER be used in PWO. You want something quick absrobing.
Malto+Hydrolysates+BCAA+Glutamine would be like 90% effective.
Whey+glucose would be barely better than just eating food after.
Glad to see science is not your strongpoint
You’re right. I switched my major. I’m sure the schooling the Czech. Republic (Well at the time it was probably Czechslovakia) is far superior. Could you please point out the errors I’m making?[/quote]
the ‘speed’ difference between whey (concentrate or isolate) and hydrolysate (usually made from concentrate but it vaires) is minimal.
Whey is ~20-25% BCAA to start with
there is absolutely no evidence that whey hydrolysate+BCAA+glutamine+glucose is any better than whey(iso-nitrogenous)+glucose
but then there is also no evidence that whey hydrolysate is better than food for muscle gain…
Good news. Since I found the below post (and the poster) to be very amusing, and because of the subject at hand I realized I had an amazing opportunity to listen to myself. It’s definitely chuckling, which requires the more accurate representation:
heh heh heh heh
[quote]ZEB wrote:
However, I have to disagree with Nate when it comes to his cheap imitation of a school girl giggling. Not only is it unsettling to me (and others), it is also behavior unbecoming a T-Man. I do commend him for not giggling in his most recent post. Perhaps he is getting over his fetish. One can only hope.
[quote]NateN wrote:
Good news. Since I found the below post (and the poster) to be very amusing, and because of the subject at hand I realized I had an amazing opportunity to listen to myself. It’s definitely chuckling, which requires the more accurate representation:
heh heh heh heh
ZEB wrote:
However, I have to disagree with Nate when it comes to his cheap imitation of a school girl giggling. Not only is it unsettling to me (and others), it is also behavior unbecoming a T-Man. I do commend him for not giggling in his most recent post. Perhaps he is getting over his fetish. One can only hope.
[/quote]
Hey take it easy Nate, I think you are letting this get to you…you little giggler you
Glad to see that you’re refuting my claims, not with science like your first post alleged, but with the lack of science.
Whatever. Feel the way you want and I’ll feel the way I want.
Pookie: The worst is when you catch it in your mouth. You’ve got all the bad feelings: throat hurt, bad taste, and you still have that mess of stuff that made you yak in your stomach. Bleh.
[quote]NateN wrote:
I can’t help it. I keep looking over my shoulder for a creepy old man (you) trying to offer me candy if I giggle for him.
ZEB wrote:
Hey take it easy Nate, I think you are letting this get to you…you little giggler you
[/quote]
You are one very strange kid. I merely mentioned that you giggle (in some of your posts) like a little girl, which as I pointed out is sort of unmanly, even for your generation.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Terumo wrote:
Briefly stated, I just think that products like Surge (or even a home-brew of glucose/malto/hydro) deserves a little bit more credit than to be placed as identical with chocolate milk, aside from a 5% placebo effect. There is simply no rationale behind a claim like this, and when the mechanisms behind it are put into perspective, it seems quite untrue.
Once more, I don’t want to upset anyone, as I know some guys around here can be a bit thin-skinned. I’m just trying to bring another opinion to the table.
Late.
~Terumo
Berardi himself said that chocolate milk is a decent alternative to Surge. Of course Surge is far superior to any other PWO nutrition IMO, but If you can’t afford Surge the cho-milk is better than nothing.
I know that if given a choice, I will choose Surge, but I would drink chocolate milk before i would spend the time to mix my own blend that tastes like butt-cheese.
[/quote]
That last statement is kind of off, don’t you think? Are you saying that you would use choc milk rather than a 2:1 mix of dextrose and whey isolate? If you want to have some fun, have a roll of Sweet Tarts (mostly dextrose) and a bottle of Isopure (pure whey isolate).
I have yet to use Surge and have great results and recovery. I use 2:1 dextrose and why isolate + creatine. I have purchased some Surge and will use the 4 jars and then compare.
The fact is, Berardi is not going to say to “use Surge, but if you can’t afford it, go use this brand dextrose and that brand whey isolate for 1/2 the cost and 90% of the results.”
[quote]BFG wrote:
That last statement is kind of off, don’t you think? Are you saying that you would use choc milk rather than a 2:1 mix of dextrose and whey isolate? If you want to have some fun, have a roll of Sweet Tarts (mostly dextrose) and a bottle of Isopure (pure whey isolate).
I have yet to use Surge and have great results and recovery. I use 2:1 dextrose and why isolate + creatine. I have purchased some Surge and will use the 4 jars and then compare.
The fact is, Berardi is not going to say to “use Surge, but if you can’t afford it, go use this brand dextrose and that brand whey isolate for 1/2 the cost and 90% of the results.”
BFG[/quote]
BFG -
Maybe I heard it wrong, but I do know that Berardi did say that choc-milk was an acceptable PWO drink.
All I can say is take the time to listen to the Double-Tap interview that Shugs did with him.
Personally, I would drink just about anything PWO besides home made butt cheese. That’s just my opinion. Besides, this is a mute point because Surge is too cheap for me to have to make a decision like that.
