Chocolate Milk-Post Workout!

system · March 9, 2005, 3:09pm

[quote]rainjack wrote:
BFG wrote:
That last statement is kind of off, don’t you think? Are you saying that you would use choc milk rather than a 2:1 mix of dextrose and whey isolate? If you want to have some fun, have a roll of Sweet Tarts (mostly dextrose) and a bottle of Isopure (pure whey isolate).

I have yet to use Surge and have great results and recovery. I use 2:1 dextrose and why isolate + creatine. I have purchased some Surge and will use the 4 jars and then compare.

The fact is, Berardi is not going to say to “use Surge, but if you can’t afford it, go use this brand dextrose and that brand whey isolate for 1/2 the cost and 90% of the results.”

BFG

BFG -

Maybe I heard it wrong, but I do know that Berardi did say that choc-milk was an acceptable PWO drink.

All I can say is take the time to listen to the Double-Tap interview that Shugs did with him.

Personally, I would drink just about anything PWO besides home made butt cheese. That’s just my opinion. Besides, this is a mute point because Surge is too cheap for me to have to make a decision like that.
[/quote]

OK moneybags. But keep in mind that sometimes money is not even the issue. Say for example, one is out of town and has no Surge. What to do? Sweet Tarts are like $.50, and most gyms or even grocery stores sell a liquid from of whey isolate. I can’t believe that would not be better than chocolate milk.

Yeah, I heard the D-Tap interview. Just keep in mind how everyone around here gets paid. They don’t get paid by guys like you and me posting sh!t. They do get paid by selling Surge, Low-Carb Grow!, etc. They are just smart enough to have this “free” site for us to engage each other on knowing that most of us already use good supplements and may very likely buy theirs. They do, afterall, have some of the best sh!t out there. We get an amazing tool for learning and sharing, and they get free advertising. I bet that most supplement companies spend @ssloads on advertising. These guys gotsta have hyooge f*cking margins.

Still, what has more value: all this wealth of information or the high-priced supplements?

BFG

TC1 · March 9, 2005, 4:09pm

Yes, chocolate milk is better than nothing, and whey protein plus chocolate milk is better than just chocolate milk, but let’s not forget the original research that the Surge formulation was based on.

The ratio of nutrients and the inclusion of branched chains seems to be very important.

From the original Surge article:

The final piece of the post-workout puzzle is the management of protein synthesis. And although this area is a little more complex than managing protein breakdown, there are three key ingredients to increasing protein synthesis immediately after workouts:

A proper ratio of BCAAs
High blood levels of essential amino acids
High blood levels of insulin

Based on the research, it appears that the amount of protein intake has very little to do with pushing protein synthesis up after workouts. And in fact, too much could be counter productive (more on this later).

More important to increasing protein synthesis after workouts is the ability to rapidly deliver the right type of protein or, more correctly, the right type of amino acids. In a paper published last February, researchers discussed rates of protein synthesis during several conditions (7):

After weight training with high amino acids in the blood and high insulin in the blood, protein synthesis increase by over 400% vs. normal post-workout amino acid and insulin levels (7).

The most interesting thing was that in the last condition, the post-workout beverage only contained 6 g of protein and 36 g of carbohydrate.

As long as insulin was high and correct amounts of essential amino acids and BCAAs were present, protein synthesis got jacked after the workout.

Several other studies have shown that either infused or orally administered post-workout amino acids are able to rapidly increase protein synthesis as well as rapidly create a positive muscle protein balance after training (24, 25).

Interestingly, it seems that non-essential amino acids are not required for this process and that if only essential amino acids are supplied, there’s no difference in the increases in protein synthesis (7, 26).

You may be asking yourself why too much protein could be counterproductive. Well, a very high protein meal can actually cause a release of glucagon. Glucagon is a hormone that antagonizes insulin release. So if you eat some protein with carbs, insulin shoots up. If you eat too much protein with carbs, the insulin release may actually be lower.

And if this weren’t bad enough, glucagon also has another function that we want to avoid. The darn stuff causes the body to convert amino acids into glucose (a process called gluconeogenesis). So take in too much protein and say goodbye to that special amino acid ratio. Instead those aminos become carbs!

Let’s get back to the amino acids. In addition to the requirement for rapidly delivered essential amino acids, BCAAs seem to play a big role in the recovery and increase of protein synthesis after a workout (2,7).

Unpublished data presented at the 2000 Canadian Society for Exercise Physiology Meeting shed light on the importance of BCAAs in recovery (2). In endurance athletes, post workout protein synthesis rates will drop by about 30% for up to 6 hours after a training bout. Providing carbohydrates to these athletes, while favorable for increasing muscle glycogen stores, has no ability to increase protein synthesis.

However, a drink providing only the BCAA leucine was able to promote full recovery of post-workout protein synthesis levels to pre-training values. In addition, by adding carbohydrate to the beverage, protein synthesis was higher after the workout than before the workout. Since this beverage increased blood insulin levels, the author of the study concluded that insulin indeed had a synergistic effect with leucine on protein synthesis.

The results of this study and others have lead researchers to believe that within the muscle cell, there’s one particular regulatory pathway for protein synthesis that’s stimulated by insulin, but dependent on leucine (27). If insulin is present and leucine isn’t, then protein synthesis can’t maximally be stimulated. If leucine is present and insulin isn’t, protein synthesis can’t be maximally stimulated. But give 'em both and look out!

So what’s the best way to rapidly increase protein synthesis after a workout? It seems that the 0.4g/kg of protein hydrolysate plus 0.8g/kg of glucose/glucose polymer plus insulin-stimulating amino acids takes care of the insulin angle. But remember, insulin isn’t enough. Providing BCAAs in an ideal ratio is the second part in rapidly stimulating protein synthesis.

ZEB · March 9, 2005, 5:03pm

[quote]Atomic Dog wrote:
Yes, chocolate milk is better than nothing, and whey protein plus chocolate milk is better than just chocolate milk, but let’s not forget the original research that the Surge formulation was based on.

The ratio of nutrients and the inclusion of branched chains seems to be very important.

From the original Surge article:

The final piece of the post-workout puzzle is the management of protein synthesis. And although this area is a little more complex than managing protein breakdown, there are three key ingredients to increasing protein synthesis immediately after workouts:

A proper ratio of BCAAs
High blood levels of essential amino acids
High blood levels of insulin

Based on the research, it appears that the amount of protein intake has very little to do with pushing protein synthesis up after workouts. And in fact, too much could be counter productive (more on this later).

More important to increasing protein synthesis after workouts is the ability to rapidly deliver the right type of protein or, more correctly, the right type of amino acids. In a paper published last February, researchers discussed rates of protein synthesis during several conditions (7):

After weight training with high amino acids in the blood and high insulin in the blood, protein synthesis increase by over 400% vs. normal post-workout amino acid and insulin levels (7).