[quote]pachell wrote:
Do both. Deadlifts too. Problem solved.[/quote]
Agreed.
Dead lift and rows should be your bread and butter
Pull ups are not a huge part of my routine, and when I do them, I don’t do barbell rows that workout, Ill do dumbbell rows with like 90 pounds or something just for the stretch.
[quote]I read it as alternating between workouts. So the first A day he would do deadlifts, then the next A day power cleans. Nothing wrong with that, but I question the efficacy of alternating those particular exercises.
I could be wrong, though.[/quote]
My mistake.
[quote]elano wrote:
I just figured that workout A would be for heavy pulls and workout B would be for light pulls (row and chin). I just figured that a pullup/chin and rows both worked the lats and biceps real good.
The week would go like
Monday- Squat press row
Wednesday- Squat bench deadlift
Friday- Squat press Chinups
Monday - Squat Bench power clean
Wednesday- squat press row
Friday - squat bench deadlift
Monday - Squat press chinups
Wednesday- Squat bench power clean
Friday - Squat press row
Right now deads are 1x5, powerclean 5x3, situps 2x8-12, and 3x5 of everything else
When squats start stalling, Im going to switch to a mon 5x5, wed 2x5, fri 1x5
I think its called the texas method?
[/quote]
Just a questions, but why not just do the “Starting Strength” program? Your schedule looks very, very similar, so it’s not like it would be a big difference.
The thing is, that Rippetoe has lots of experience with how to design a good program, and has already taken all of the guess work out of it. He has already figured out (and written out) how to add in things like chins, dips, and other accessory exercises. You on the other hand, don’t have that experience (no offense).
Tailoring a program to the individual is a good thing. But tweaking programs, and/or making up your own program is something that beginners should generally stay away from IMO (unless they’ve got the guidance of an experienced lifter/coach to help them).
They simply don’t fully understand what makes a solid routine and wind up decreasing the effectiveness of a program, not increasing it.
I realize you’re gonna do what you want to do, and even following your tweaked Starting Strength program you’ll see results (provided you adhere to the progressive model and eat enough). It just seems kind of silly to me to waist time trying to figure out how to incorporate certain lifts or which lifts are “better”, when it’s already been figured out for you.
Save the problem solving for later, when the newbie gains have stopped and you actually need it. That’s my two cents anyways.
Ive done squats and deadlifts before and the program where you deadlift twice one week and power clean twice the next is for complete beginners who have never lifted before. I would stall very quick if I did that I think.
Just trying to tweak things to keep making gains in linear progression. I can dead 315 for reps, not impressive I know but I don’t think I would last very long doing those twice a week along with power cleans. I want a program that I can keep gaining on with minor adjustments.
Ive been doing rows more often than chin and I was thinking about switching it and it also seems that some people on here like chins a lot better.
The starting strength model in practical programming has chins and pullups alternated. These are just examples.
who cares which is better?
Both work, so do both. I hate these exercise v exercise thread.
I will say however pull ups are a must, where as rows can be left out often and they wont be missed too much. But why worry which is best, do both and you cant lose.
This thread is like asking which is better for mass/strength, overhead press or bench press?
You do BOTH, not one or the other.
Come on people.
I want to do both, I just cant do them both on the same day. Is there anything at all wrong with alternating them like this?
Monday- Squat press row
Wednesday- Squat bench deadlift
Friday- Squat press Chinups
Monday - Squat Bench power clean
Wednesday- squat press row
Friday - squat bench deadlift
Monday - Squat press chinups
Wednesday- Squat bench power clean
Friday - Squat press row
Monday - Squat bench deadlift
Wednesday - Squat bench chinups
Friday - Squat bench power clean
Thats a 4 week schedule anyways.
Im not new to these exercises either, I realize that I will prob stall on this style of workout (linear progression) and I will make wed a light day or something.
[quote]elano wrote:
I want to do both, I just cant do them both on the same day. Is there anything at all wrong with alternating them like this?
Monday- Squat press row
Wednesday- Squat bench deadlift
Friday- Squat press Chinups
Monday - Squat Bench power clean
Wednesday- squat press row
Friday - squat bench deadlift
Monday - Squat press chinups
Wednesday- Squat bench power clean
Friday - Squat press row
Monday - Squat bench deadlift
Wednesday - Squat bench chinups
Friday - Squat bench power clean
Thats a 4 week schedule anyways.
Im not new to these exercises either, I realize that I will prob stall on this style of workout (linear progression) and I will make wed a light day or something.[/quote]
If you were going to try this workout, and assuming that you really have moved beyond the point where a program like Starting Strength would not allow you to progress, then you’d probably be wise to rotate your “squat” exercise as well.
Maybe front squats one day and back squats the other, or maybe back squats and leg press, or back squats and BB hack squats, etc…
You’re rotating your back exercise between 4 exercises, and your press exercise between 2 exercises, yet your are not alternating your squat exercise. So you’ll either have to rotate that as well, or need light days for your squats (as you mentioned above). Take a look at Madcow’s 5x5 program to see how they set up progression.
Yeah Iv’e read over the madcow and it seems like a good program for progress by the week. Im doing that program that I mentioned above, except I do rows instead of chins.
My squats are currently still going up each workout but not by much. Im progressing around 5-10lb per week on that. Other lifts are slowing down too, but for the most part everything is working like its supposed to be. Im expecting to keep progressing like this for at least another couple of months. Im trying to plan things out.
I just wanted good foundation program that I can just tweak to keep things going smoothly for the long term.
Doing front squats on Wed is a good idea. I was thinking that I would do a program where you do
Monday - Back squat 5x5 (heavy)
Wednesday - Front squat 3x3 or Back squat 2x5 (light day)
Friday - (1x5) heavy
Mark rippetoe said “This simple program is pobably the most productive routine in existance for trainees at this level (intermediate). It is usually the first program to use when simple linear progression dosent work anymore.”
He says that monday is the “stress” workout, midweek is recovery, friday is higher intensity lower volume.
Looks pretty sound and simple.
Alright, ive stalled pretty good so im going to deload and try this one more time before moving to different programming.
A workout is-----
Squat
bench
row /alt w. powerclean
situps
B Workout is—
Squat
press
deadlift
chinups /alt. w. pullups
Front squats will be done on wed.
This way i still get to rows and I get those chins and pullups in there very often. Changing to this also fixes the problem of not deadlifting enough.
Thanks for all the advice on this. Im using it.
Barbell rows in my opinion and from my experience can be executed in many different ways.
Three main parameters can be manipulated and the excercise pretty much changes:
I think rows and chinups are both necessary if one wants a strong and big back.
You’ve brought up two excellent back exercises so I see no reason to have to choose one over the other.
I’m a personal fan of chin-ups and pull-ups because a.) I’m really good at them and b.) through variation of grip and body position there is SO much versatility possible.
An exercise I’ve been doing a lot recently is the “clock” pull-up. I think Poliquin refers to them as “left to right” pull-ups. Assume a shoulder width grip, palms supinated. As you pull-up you pull yourself towards one hand, so your face is almost touching it, then shift from L to R (or vice versa) with your chest rubbing against the bar, go back down, then repeat for the opposite hand. Doing this really leaves you sore the next day, targeting muscles you may have forgotten you had.
[quote]skohcl wrote:
I think it’s chins/pull ups for width and rows for thickness/hugeness.
So yeah, both are pretty darn important.[/quote]
we have a winner