[quote]vroom wrote:
don’t look now vroomie, but you’re being a bigger dick than usual…it’s not very ironic, but it is sad.
Hmm, in that case, I think “blow me” would be the proper response.
Don’t get your panties in a wad Joey, the world will still be spinning tomorrow.[/quote]
You leave my panties alone!
[quote]vroom wrote:
don’t look now vroomie, but you’re being a bigger dick than usual…it’s not very ironic, but it is sad.
Hmm, in that case, I think “blow me” would be the proper response.
Don’t get your panties in a wad Joey, the world will still be spinning tomorrow.[/quote]
Okay, vroom, since we’ve now wasted a butt-load of bandwidth between us, and gotten to the point where I’m calling you a dick and you’re begging me for oral sex …er…sorry, where you’re saying “blow me” to me…we really need to stop this stupid shit.
If it’s okay with you that is.
Yes, the world will still be spinning. But will it be spinning in or out of control?
Not that the endless bs we (all of us, not you and me specifically) has any real effect on that, but it might…doncha think?
And since you and I have more in common than we don’t–and I’m not going to go into a litany–if we can’t at least pretend to get along how’s the rest of the world?
My God, vroom, you and me…we’re a microcosm!
LOL!
Seriously. I’m done. It’s not fun anymore. I’m starting to really not like you and that’s not why I’m here.
I don’t have a problem with hating someone, but I’d just as soon do it over something more important than an internet cock-waving pissing contest.
Last time I tried this you said I was insulting you while I was trying to call for a truce. I hope you don’t think I am now…because I honestly don’t think I have, I hope I haven’t.
So…whattaya think? Can the liberal leaning Liberterian from Texas and Canada get along with the conservative leaning Liberterian from NH?
Or…if they can’t get along, can they at least stop the stupid yapping and nipping at each other?
Sounds reasonable to me Joe. I know it would make for better content in some of the politics threads anyway.
Maybe we can put away the tactical nukes and reset the hair triggers a notch?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
The goal should be truth and an attempt to look at all sides, not this waste of space so you all can pat yourselves on the back for work that is not only in jeopardy, but is also nowhere near finished.[/quote]
I’m hearing you, ProX. I’ll restate the first part of your sentence because it’s important:
“The goal should be truth and an attempt to look at all sides…”
After doing my googling last night, and reading all the articles I did, it became apparent to me that the liberal media bias is REAL. I used to think that it was an exaggeration, but it’s not. I’m sorry to say this.
No one in this thread, especially me, is saying that everything is peaches and cream in Iraq. It quite obviously is not, and the media reminds us every day with an updated car-bomb report as soon as there’s another one, even if nobody dies from it.
The whole point of this thread is to find and collect the other side of the story that is NOT being told by the American media. I’ve found stuff here and there from Australia, the UK… where’s the American media with the good news? It’s a bitch to find because they aren’t telling it, man!
So, given your stance on this issue as can be seen in the sentence I quoted from you above, why aren’t you helping me?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
You cannot change the way I feel about this. You cannot change the truth… the fact that we are helping so many people over there.
This was idiotic. I may be called to go over there fairly soon. I think I understand more than you what we are doing over there because we get briefings on it directly from those in charge of operations. Unless the same is happening with you, your accusation is ridiculous. As if you can’t understand what was written before, this has nothing to do with not ackowledging the good things we are trying to do over there.
The doc who shares an office with me has spent more time over there than you ever will so if I want info straight from the horse’s mouth (not that he resmebles a horse in any way), all I have to do is turn my chair around. I will also not ignore the fact that he stated he got little sleep during most of the time there due to mortar rounds going off and constant drills for bombing. If you want to ONLY focus on the good while turning your back on the entire picture, that makes you the one with the problem.
America’s military is trying very hard to re-establish some form of integrity as far as the social infrastructure over there…however, to ignore the risks, the hardships and the hatred for that same action is foolish to say the least.
The goal should be truth and an attempt to look at all sides, not this waste of space so you all can pat yourselves on the back for work that is not only in jeopardy, but is also nowhere near finished.[/quote]
Well said
[quote]Professor X wrote:
You aren’t doing anything but perpetuating the same action that you claim to hate from “the liberal media”. How you can’t see the hypocrisy in that is beyond me. Your goal isn’t truth…it is spin. I have no doubt that you would be ultimately happy if all media was controlled to edit out every death or explosion and ONLY focus in on candle lightings and smiling children…even if a dead soldier is 3 feet away.
To have any base in morality, your goal should simply be truth, not spin and hype. Again, this was quite CHEESETASTIC. Hell, I think someone needs to add that to an urban dictionary.[/quote]
Didn’t you know the liberal media has been feeding us lies for 3 years now Prof? It’s actually a Utopia over there. People dance in the streets. Bush the great one has brought them democracy. People take baths in milk and honey and no-one ever dies or grows old. US servicemen over there are the luckiest people alive. It’s Disneyworld times ten!
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Okay boys, I’m starting this one to collect some positive stories, pictures, verifiable statistics, etc. – basically, anything good that’s happening in Iraq now.
[/quote]
Lothario, why do you want to “collect positive stories”? From the rest of your post it seems like you want to show that we’re doing good work in Iraq and things are progessing, but collecting isolated positive stories doesn’t show that at all.
What does it mean that a little girl gave a soldier a flower today? What does it mean that a power grid was restored in Mosul? I have no context for these things. If you want to show that things are going well in Iraq, then first tell me what our goals are, and then show me how we’re progressing towards those goals.
By goals, I mean specific, quantifiable goals. For example:
Produce X amount of usable power to Y percentage of the population.
Train X number of security forces.
Provide X percentage of the population with clean drinking water.
etc…Post the articles and stories that show pre-war levels, current levels, and how we’re progressing towards said goals.
All of this other stuff, collecting good and bad stories, with no context or clearly stated goals is meaningless. Sorry if I appear to be hijacking your thread, but isn’t anyone else frustrated about not having a clear overall picture of where we stand, or even what our goals are? I already know our troops are doing good deeds, but I want a clear picture. I wish the media or the government would give us a clear picture of exactly what we were working towards. It’s unfortunate that the best our President can give us is “we’re doing good work.”
It’s also frustrating to me that we are doing good work over there, and we have all of these incredibly intelligent, well-informed guys here, and the best we can come up with is “let’s collect all the good news in this thread.”
Hijack over, but if someone had the time and inclination to create a thread that defined victory, defined our major goals and milestones, and collected articles and stories about where we stood overall, then we would have a real “Good News for the Good Guys!” thread.
Found something on truthorfiction.com:
As you can see, the particular letter in question from the ACE soldier which had been dismissed as BS on some internet forums is indeed not a hoax. The ACE webpage I linked to before also confirms the information in the letter (which truthorfiction.com didn’t do, all they confirmed was the truth of the letter’s actual existence), so here’s another feather in the Army Corps of Engineers’ hat.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
So, given your stance on this issue as can be seen in the sentence I quoted from you above, why aren’t you helping me?[/quote]
Because my heart is more with the soldiers who have died over this than the conservatives who want credit for getting us into this in the first place.
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/
Unless your pats on the back can bring these men and women back, I will withold rejoicing just yet. There is still work to be done and despite claims that we have “turned a corner”, I personally would like there to be no further deaths over a war about a concept. Unless you can prove to me that this war has decreased the number of terrorists who plan to attack America, it just doesn’t seem right to me.
[quote]deanosumo wrote:
It’s actually a Utopia over there. People dance in the streets. People take baths in milk and honey and no-one ever dies or grows old. It’s Disneyworld times ten!
[/quote]
Hold on, you’re telling me the Iraqis elected Clinton president?
Here’s a website out of Canuckland which collects some good news stories from Iraq:
http://www.canadafreepress.com/good-news-stories.htm
I noticed that many of the opening lines of these stories feature something along the line of “Here’s something you won’t see in the American media…”
But I’m sure it’s just a coincidence, right?
[quote]deanosumo wrote:
Didn’t you know the liberal media has been feeding us lies for 3 years now Prof? It’s actually a Utopia over there. People dance in the streets. Bush the great one has brought them democracy. People take baths in milk and honey and no-one ever dies or grows old. US servicemen over there are the luckiest people alive. It’s Disneyworld times ten!
[/quote]
They haven’t been so much “lying” as promoting just the bad stuff, deano. Your mocking post, although funny, has no basis in what I’m doing here. I will repeat myself yet again: No one is saying that Iraq is a Paradise. All I am trying to do is reveal that there is more going on than just bad stuff.
Help me dig out the truth or get out of my way, bizzle. 
[quote]Moriarty wrote:
Lothario, why do you want to “collect positive stories”? From the rest of your post it seems like you want to show that we’re doing good work in Iraq and things are progessing, but collecting isolated positive stories doesn’t show that at all.
[/quote]
You didn’t click any of the links, and you didn’t read any of my summaries from page one of this thread. That’s okay, I know this is hard for y’all anti-war folks to accept, so that’s why I’m trying to be persistent here. Go back to the first page of this thread. Near the top you will find a bunch of posts by me which link to the true and verifiable information you are asking about. The USAID.com site is excellent, as well as the Army Corps of Engineers site.
As for the little things, like school openings and the benchmark 1000th rebuilding accomplishment, those are just things I threw in there to help paint the picture that is missing from the American media. The sad fact that we hear NOTHING of the good we are doing over there in our national media is just a shame, I think.
TBC…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
So, given your stance on this issue as can be seen in the sentence I quoted from you above, why aren’t you helping me?
Because my heart is more with the soldiers who have died over this than the conservatives who want credit for getting us into this in the first place.
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/
Unless your pats on the back can bring these men and women back, I will withold rejoicing just yet. There is still work to be done and despite claims that we have “turned a corner”, I personally would like there to be no further deaths over a war about a concept. Unless you can prove to me that this war has decreased the number of terrorists who plan to attack America, it just doesn’t seem right to me.[/quote]
Fair enough, ProX. I’m not going to stop, though. Just know that I respect you, and I am trying to present the stuff that gets passed over in our national media. Call it “pats on the back” if you want, but it’s the truth.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
You didn’t click any of the links, and you didn’t read any of my summaries from page one of this thread.
[/quote]
Yes, I actually clicked all over them. Nice red herring. The only one that I read that actually gave described a milestone reached was:
And even it describes a vague “1,000 reconstruction project completed” milestone which has no context.
It does however have this paragraph:
That’s what prompted me to write my response. I wanted more context about what exactly those projects were and how the were specifically helping people.
Ok, by that do you mean us “anti-war” folks that wanted the US to go into Iraq, or were you not refering to me?
I checked out the USAID.com, and it honestly seemed like propganda to me. With the presentation and little factiods like:
Why Oct. 6th? What are we generating right now? What do we need to be generating? When will we get to that point at the rate we’re going?
[quote]Moriarty wrote:
Yes, I actually clicked all over them. Nice red herring.
[/quote]
Hey, sorry. I just assumed from your post that you skipped over everything which answered your questions. Maybe you were skimming then?
[quote]I checked out the USAID.com, and it honestly seemed like propganda to me. With the presentation and little factiods like:
Generated 4,518 MW on October 6, surpassing the pre-war level of 4,400 MW.
Why Oct. 6th? What are we generating right now? What do we need to be generating? When will we get to that point at the rate we’re going?[/quote]
Good lord, is nothing good enough for you? Obviously, Oct 6 is the day they measured the total output serving Iraq. That was a while ago, okay? Maybe I’ll be able to find a more up-to-date statistic for you somewhere… geez! Wanna bet it’s higher than the Oct 6th number?
P.S. Thanks for all your help in compiling this thread. You are showing us all that you really care about the truth, and that you’re not just an anti-US goofball who is refusing to acknowledge the good things that the US is doing in Iraq. Thanks again, Mor, you’re the greatest. hehe that was too easy
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Good lord, is nothing good enough for you? [/quote]
One could ask you the same question. You want to breeze over all negatives and only report on “pristine school houses”? What’s the death toll? It isn’t like it stopped climbing.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Hey, sorry. I just assumed from your post that you skipped over everything which answered your questions. Maybe you were skimming then?
[/quote]
Ok Loth. My post suggested a format for presenting this information, so I’m not sure how the links you posted “answered my questions” (what were my questions again). But I also realize you were in a rush to give your standard smart-assed response so you didn’t read it carefully. It’s all good.
I admit I have a high standard when we’re sending soldiers to die for this cause. I, like you, believe they are doing good work over there; but it is unclear where we stand when data comes from incongruous sources and without context. There is even inconsistency between the sources you’ve pointed out. I just expressed my desire that the information be presented in a manner that included context and goals so that there could be no denying we are indeed doing great work.
The reason I ask is because I thought I had read that output had fallen below those levels since then. Oct. 6th is the day they measured? You mean that’s when they set up the special equipment and measured the output and they just haven’t made that measurement since? Iraq has those pesky power plants that don’t continuously tell you how much energy they’re generating? Yes, that is obviously the reason why.
Yes, I refuse to acknowledge the truth Loth. My bad for suggesting that goals and progess be laid out in a clear format with context rather than as disparate links. That is clearly a stark refusal to “acknowlege truth”.
[quote]
Thanks again, Mor, you’re the greatest. hehe that was too easy[/quote]
Hehe. Loth, it’s always easy to be a smartass when you aren’t bound by reality.
Anyways, I admit compiling the information in that manner would be quite a task so I don’t expect anyone here to actually do it. It would be nice though. And if anyone knows a place where this is actually done (not where Loth pretends it’s done) that would be a great addition to this thread.
Okay Moriarty, I found something in the Washington Post:
I am assuming that the reason this shows up is because it is not positive news. I would classifiy it as “neutral”. The article explores the reasons for the lack of an appreciable increase in electicity supply in Iraq over the last year or so.
So there you go, Mor. Although we are above pre-war levels of electrical output, we haven’t made as much progress as we had planned on. There are more hurdles to jump than we had at first anticipated.
I think something I learned from this is the fact that Saddam used to use power and water utilities to control his populace. If your village stepped out of line, then he would order your utilities shut off. This is quite obviously not happening anymore, and villages who hadn’t seen power service since the early 90’s now get a few hours of electricity, at least. The picture is quite clear though: our work is far from over regarding the Iraqi national power grid.
TBC…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
Good lord, is nothing good enough for you?
One could ask you the same question. You want to breeze over all negatives and only report on “pristine school houses”? What’s the death toll? It isn’t like it stopped climbing.[/quote]
I’m not breezing over the negatives. If you want the negatives, open any newspaper, turn on your TV to something besides Fox News, pick up an American magazine… I’m not in this thread to report negatives, we get those thrown at us from every angle imaginable.
If you want the positives (which are there if you try to find them), you will have a bit more trouble. That is what this thread is about.