The body is very sensitive to transients of T&E as well as absolute numbers. You experienced a decline in T, an increase in E, an increase of SHBG that further reduced FT and the increased E interferes with the action of T at T-receptors. The rapid changes would be felt.
What you felt was the effects on the brain. the thyroid might also have changed output in response to the lower FT.
As your testes adjusted to a lower level of LH, you pregnenolone production dropped. Preg is consumed in the brain to create neural steroids.
On top of it all, you were having anxiety about the loss of the AI and its effects.
Aromatase increases with age, it only gets worse. E also increases with age. I don’t think that greater E causes more aromatase, I think that the its the other way around and the increase in aromatase is mostly from a non-E related process.
If only it were that simple. I can only speak from my own experience, but when my ratio was 4:1 it was hell. As soon as I got above around 10:1 things were much better and I’m currently at about 20:1 and I’m very happy with how things are. Your mileage may vary.
Free Testosterone isn’t without controversy. I think you get the best picture if you get the Free + Bioavailable + Total which would be CPT codes 84403, 84270, 82040 respectively. Here is a table showing the reference ranges.
One of the frustrating things about hormones is that they are incredibly complex and you can’t boil it all down to simple numbers from a blood test.
It might be helpful to look at it this way. You feel how you feel and the numbers you get back aren’t going to change that.
So get the tests because they will give indicators of what’s going on and they will also be a useful reference point for down the line once you start monkeying around with things and it will also be useful to see where you are when you’re sixty compared to where you are now. But don’t ever be fooled into thinking that the numbers are the be all and end all of everything.
I was told that my T and E were “fine” simply because they were both in range. Well, it isn’t that simple and thank God I didn’t fall for that line of bullshit and did more reading on my own. Contrary to popular belief, medicine is as much art as science and as much as we would like to be able to get blood tests and then know definitively where we are at, it just doesn’t work that way and we do ourselves a disservice if we pretend that it does.
[quote]happydog48 wrote:
There is a possible downside to taking the AI that you need to consider.
The human body is a homeostatic system and it will react and try to maintain the balance it has established. In other words, if you take an AI to lower your estradiol, your body will most likely pump out more testosterone AND more aromatase to try and compensate for the “lost” estradiol. This is actually a good thing as long as you keep taking the AI. The problem is if you stop the AI suddenly for any reason, you’re going to be left with higher aromatase levels than you currently have and that aromatase will do what it does and your T will go down and your E will go up and for a while, you will be in worse shape than you are now until the old equilibrium returns.
I’m speaking from experience here. Before I started taking T, I did almost a year of AI alone as a sort of run-up to TRT. In my case, the AI worked as hoped and my T went up and my E went down and things were noticeably better for me. But there was a time when I accidentally broke my bottle of AI several days before leaving on a two week business trip and so I ended up suddenly going off the AI for three weeks and it was bad. By the middle of the third week, I was in much worse shape than I had been before starting the AI. Once I got home, my new bottle of AI was waiting for me and I started back on it and in a couple of weeks things were fine again, but over all it wasn’t a fun experience.
Once you start the AI, if you ever decide to stop taking it, you will need to taper off slowly or you might end up crashing like I did.[/quote]
Damn good advice! I let my current doctor talk me into dramatically lowering my T WITHOUT an AI. Wow, never felt so just plain terrible!
I’m going to get the AI, results of which I’m sure will show up on my labs. That’s just fine — my current doc is so money hungry he won’t care.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I’m going to get the AI, results of which I’m sure will show up on my labs. That’s just fine — my current doc is so money hungry he won’t care.
[/quote]
If he questions you, either tell him you have lost fat recently (because, to oversimplify a lot of the conversion of t to e occurs in fat) or that you are taking an over-the-counter anti-e supplement like Gaspari Novadex.
* Keep out of the reach of children.
* Store away from heat and direct light.
* Do not store in the bathroom, near the kitchen sink, or in other damp places. Heat or moisture may cause the medicine to break down.
* Keep the medicine from freezing. Do not refrigerate.
* Do not keep outdated medicine or medicine no longer needed. Be sure that any discarded medicine is out of the reach of children.
So guys, I am unable to get my HMO to give me any estrogen tests, so I am going to have to shell out the cash and go with some independent lab. Is LEF, the best place? Looks like I will need to put out about 300 bucks there. Which tests should I get? Estradiol, Free T…what else?
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I just took 8 drops with a little water. Will it be several days, weeks, until I begin to feel the effects?
I am so ready to get this E2 down and feel human again![/quote]
HH,
Some men notice the positive effects within days, for me it was about a month. I was also taking chasteberry at the time too and that may or may not of effected how I felt. Chasteberry is a site receptor blocker, if you didn’t know. It’s also called Vitex.
Adex has a half life of three days, and by day 14 your blood level changes of E will be measurable. I started at an E level of 105, and in 14 days got down to 47. This was 1mg day one, 1mg day three, and 1/4 mg EOD (I think) until day 14. On day 15 I had my b/w done. I had an E only test done last week, because my doc has me on 2mg/week and I want to know what my steady state E levels are. I will post when I know.
BTW, the research chemical company we are talking about is first class.
cheers
EDIT: I just got my E test results, and Quest gave me <32. When I asked “how much below 32” they couldn’t answer. Maybe if my doctor calls Quest directly, he might get the real answer. I’ll post if I found anything out.
[quote]entheogens wrote:
So guys, I am unable to get my HMO to give me any estrogen tests, so I am going to have to shell out the cash and go with some independent lab. Is LEF, the best place? Looks like I will need to put out about 300 bucks there. Which tests should I get? Estradiol, Free T…what else?[/quote]
If all that you need is E2 testing, just do that. If you need other tests, the the male panel price is way less costly than the tests by them selves.
[quote]KNB wrote:
Adex has a half life of three days
[/quote]
Hey KNB, where did you get three days from? The Arimidex package insert states that “anastrozole has a mean terminal elimination half-life of approximately 50 hours in post-menopausal women”?
[quote]jetice101 wrote:
KNB wrote:
Adex has a half life of three days
Hey KNB, where did you get three days from? The Arimidex package insert states that “anastrozole has a mean terminal elimination half-life of approximately 50 hours in post-menopausal women”?
[/quote]
I read every piece of info about adex I could find. For men, for women in cancer surveys, you name it. I don’t remember where now, as I lost my browser history recently and can’t pull it up anymore.
I do remember 72 hours specifically though, and I have done all my serum calculations based on that and my E2 tests reflected it. I don’t disagree with your monograph, it’s just not what had found previously.
EDIT: I just calculated the half-life at 48 hours and got a maximum level at day 15. Using a 72 hour half-life the maximum level is at day 21.
Hey entheogens, if the only reason you are thinking of getting on an a.i is for a better erection you will most likely average a much weaker erection as formentioned your E fluctuating on diferent dosages. If you are not adding Testosterone your body will naturaly balance your E much better then experimenting with an a.i. and finding the right dosage.
ZRT labs is a good low cost way to check your E levels. Unless your E is off the charts out of wack don’t use an a.i. You will most likely use too much, then not enuf, and your E will leave you hanging more often then it will improve anything. A liquid viagra from a researchstop chemical will harden you up really good and in my opinion labido is improved when a simple breeze of wind gets you hard as can be.
If your E is too low or too high all the viagra in the world will likely have little effect in my experience and your labido will go from so so to no go. If anyone can afford arimidex or anastrozole it is the way to go as the research chems dosages are not consistent from my experience, how ever I still use them because I am just plain broke. There are some GUYS selling AG chemicals that have kicked as for years with all their products but in the last 3 months have sold nothing but junk.
So even if you find a perfect dose the next time you order the same product it might be bunk or underdosed and this kind of thing has disabled me from havingb sex for a month at a time before I figure out whats wrong. Example- I used to take two a-zoles .5 pw and I was rocking, then went to a researchstop place and things slowly turned bad. I upped the dosage to .25 mg eod for a week and it got worse yet. Figured my E must of got way too low so I stopped taking the a.i all togetyher for 2 weeks and now I am completely impotent, nipples are sensitive, no sex drive, acne like crazy, and I am only doing 200mg pw of test cyp. I was going to order some diferent a-dex from some guys but then I heard from people I know that theirs was bunk. So I ordered from another place and can only hope I get something decent.
It is hard enuf to figure out if your E is too low or too high, it is not always obvious. After a year of hormone replacement therapy I have gotten pretty good at it, that is until bunk a-dex came into play and screwed me up big time! Just like the smart guy said there is a rebound effect when a-dex wears off. I have had times when my E went from too hi to too low, and back to too high again all within about a 15dayperiod and I have done blood work to back it. Do you want to go through this just for a very slight chance you might get a better erection once in a while man?
These guys have meds from India - they are legit though. I have purchased Viagra and antibiotics from them.
You have to send them a picture of a prescription (either the actual script or the bottle showing all the info).
They will only send you the strength prescribed but you can order as much as you want to even without refills.
So if you can get a script or have an old bottle, end them a pic and order it. I think it is like $45 for 30 1mg Anastrozole pills. I have been ordering my meds from them on the advice of our health insurance broker for the last 4 years. 100 mg Viagra for 100 pills is like $120.
I was struggling with libido being way high or non-existent for days at a time too from going too low or too high on E2. Now I am doing .5ml of 200 mg per ml, 100 units of HCG a day, 2.5 iu of HGH 5 on and 2 off, and 1/4 of Anastrozole twice a week on shot day.
Lately I have been taking 50 mg of Viagra daily (which studies showed has other health benefits) and because my body is so responsive to sexual stimuli, I stay horny all the time. My wife is actually mad at me because I won’t leave her alone, lol.
I get my Sildenafil (generic Viagra) from ProgressiveRX and it is legitimate. I have not gotten the Anastrozol yet as I still have some from my doc. All my other meds come from Pharmacy. But I know that Progressive meds are all from pharmaceutical companies in India. The way our health insurance broker explained it was that many of the drugs we take in the US are imported from production facilities in countries like India anyway.
I was nervous at first because so much fake crap is sold everywhere but this stuff has been real every time so far. Better than taking research chemicals imo. So if you have a script you can try them out.
NOTE: I am an over-responder to Arimidex / Anastrozole so I only take 1/4. They started me out at 1mg and my E2 went so low before we figured that out.
I know this post was old but people will still find it and may find the info helpful I hope.