Okay, so I hope the pic posts for visual aid. As well, I posted this here in Bodybuilding thread as to not be missed if in the Beginners thread.
So, I don’t know if this is new news but was curious about asking. I find when I change the angle of the weight say in DB press like shown above, I find I hit more muscle fibers closer to the sternum. More so, when I do the opposite I hit the outer pecs and close to where they insert at at the humerus.
1) Does anyone else notice this or even incorporate this into their regime? 2) What other exercises can use this “idea” on?
Again, sorry if this is a old principal. I remember reading a article that Thibs wrote about changing hand position (netural, overhand, and underhand) in supersets to change which/how the muscle is hit. Only thing that could relate to it that I’ve read…
Yeah the Tate press is a tricep exercise. You are just talking about leaving changing the angle your wrists are at but leaving the rest of the movement the same correct? If you take a look at the tate press, his upper arm moves in a much much shorter range of motion then a bench press. Which is why so much of the strain in on the tris and not the chest.
Honestly, this is one of the reasons I don’t like using dumbbells for pressing movements. It adds in a lot of variables that can be hard to control.
In a barbell press, angle of the upper arm is fixed by where you grip the bar. On dumbells it isn’t.
The more inboard the lean in your upper arm, the more work goes to the tris. The more outboard, the more work transfers to the chest.
Really and truly, the tate press and DB flies are opposite ends of the same movement. However, there is an infinite range in between.
I have had consistency problems with DB movements. Some days pressing would get my chest sore, some days tris. Some days I would feel like left and right were different.
I stick to barbells for upper body pressing (and even most pulling) movements.
[quote]DJS wrote:
You are just talking about leaving changing the angle your wrists are at but leaving the rest of the movement the same correct? [/quote]
Yes, this is correct. Simply tilt/bend the wrist towards my body.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I have had consistency problems with DB movements. Some days pressing would get my chest sore, some days tris. Some days I would feel like left and right were different.[/quote]
I have to agree on this that it happens to me when using DB. It really does boil down to using the correct form and path for the exercise to target the intended muscles.
However, my (or one already thought of before) example is meant to still target the intended muslces (chest) by simply changing the angle of the weight not the movement and or form of the exercise. Therefore, still trying to keep the triceps from being the dominant lifter in the exercise.
p.s. - I’m just trying to make myself clear and not trying to bring you down etc. (If I seem like it, somehow)
I know exactly what you’re talking about and have been experimenting with DB presses with sort of this style, except that I “flatten” my hands out at the top, and angle them in slightly over the course of the rep until they’re basically at the angle in your picture. It’s definitely a different movement, not sure how I feel about them at the moment but I’ll get back to this thread on what I think. For the record, I’m not performing the Tate Press, just a DB press with some Tate in it lol.
Yes it creates a natural arc through the movement. Being able to do that is a nice feature of using dumbells. Don’t expect to be able to do that when you start approaching maximal loads for a specific rep range. I found that pressing like that has improved my forearm strength.
You can experiment with hand position/angles on any dumbell movement, pretty much. Dumbell rows. Front raises. Bicep curls, obviously. Not lateral raises though because the humerus needs to be pronated to activate the medial delt.
[quote]That One Guy typed:
I know exactly what you’re talking about and have been experimenting with DB presses with sort of this style, except that I “flatten” my hands out at the top, and angle them in slightly over the course of the rep until they’re basically at the angle in your picture. It’s definitely a different movement, not sure how I feel about them at the moment but I’ll get back to this thread on what I think.[/quote]
That will be cool if you did post back in this thread with perosnal experience. For me I like to try/make different ideas or ones that I’ve seen and play around with the principle of them. It’s really about finding what works for you or what you like to do.
Thanks That One Guy. (Sounds funny to say lol)
[quote]BONEZ217 typed:
Yes it creates a natural arc through the movement. Being able to do that is a nice feature of using dumbells. Don’t expect to be able to do that when you start approaching maximal loads for a specific rep range. I found that pressing like that has improved my forearm strength.[/quote]
Believe it or not I’ve been using Fat Gripz for everything even this modification on the exercise. It really does target your grip especially on the ring and pinkie finger when the weight is angled towards your body. I’ve been hitting a weight that is around 8 reps.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
You can experiment with hand position/angles on any dumbell movement, pretty much. Dumbell rows. Front raises. Bicep curls, obviously. Not lateral raises though because the humerus needs to be pronated to activate the medial delt. [/quote]
I sometimes change the hand position/angle on lateral raises. Sometimes keeping them flat and other times dumping them like I’m pouring a pitcher. The pour really seem to make my medial delts scream. Is this not a good idea?
[quote]3hitter wrote:
The pour really seem to make my medial delts scream. Is this not a good idea?[/quote]
This is just changing which muscle is involved more. Still your trying to hit the medial delt however, your putting more emphasis in making it do more of the lifting. With the palms of your hands completely level with the floor your hitting the medial delt and somewhat of the lateral delt.
[quote]3hitter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
You can experiment with hand position/angles on any dumbell movement, pretty much. Dumbell rows. Front raises. Bicep curls, obviously. Not lateral raises though because the humerus needs to be pronated to activate the medial delt.
I sometimes change the hand position/angle on lateral raises. Sometimes keeping them flat and other times dumping them like I’m pouring a pitcher. The pour really seem to make my medial delts scream. Is this not a good idea?[/quote]
No you are doing it right. “Pouring” is a good way to describe pronation of the humerus. But using the whole arm to pour and not just the wrist. But you dont want to over pronate where your shoulder rolls forward. This would appear to put stress on the posterior delt to some degree. But everyone’s body is slightly different, so when examining any movement, if you find a ROM that works better for you, do that.
[quote]Fuzzyapple wrote:
With the palms of your hands completely level with the floor your hitting the medial delt and somewhat of the lateral delt.
[/quote]
I usually call these types of tricks Tendon Manipulation and have been doing 'em for years, Any time you redistribute weight, angle of resistance, Bio mechanics or whatever, You are also gonna either work the connective tissue by the origin of the muscle(part of the muscle close to the middle of the body) or Insertion (part of the tendon and muscle that is further from the mid line center of the body). Its very hard to explain the “How” of this phenomena without getting to technical or just plain boring, but basically what you did at the pre-stretch part of the movement was you pre-stretched your pec origins(cleavage) by relaxing the Insertion(part by the underarm), make sense? You manipulated the tendon that attached to a different part of the muscle. You did great work, you have instinctively came up with a D*** good tool.
For some strange reason, In the word of exercise science, these methods would be considered absurd (I would know, I have a degree in this field, and all my old professors gave me hell about my theories) But in reality, these tricks work wonders, Ive used (TM) to build up the origins of my biceps, Inner pecs, Delt insertions, My back in all kinds of ways, I have trained many, who wanted to bring up a lagging "part of" their muscle and even all the old school bodybuilders like Arnold, Gironda, Larry Scott have in one way or another have used similar tricks to tendon manipulation.
Bertil Fox used to press in the same manner as you have discovered(ive tried it and loved it), Larry Scott used to shoulder press in the same manner (this is a staple in my program), and you could also do it with incline pressing to really target the pectorals under the chin area (Usually, although everyone is different) I would recommend you do your lighter and moderate sets in this manner, then, when the weight gets really heavy, just switch to the standard method.
Well hope i helped a bit.
[quote]HK24719 wrote:
Fuzzyapple wrote:
With the palms of your hands completely level with the floor your hitting the medial delt and somewhat of the lateral delt.
???[/quote]
Opps I meant to say anterior delt. I feel dumb now…
Wasn’t really able to give it much intensity because I was fried when I did db presses after bench, but I do like angling the inside db down as I lower the weight. Sometimes when I’ve gone heavy with DBs, they can get away from me a little and a couple of times they’ve begun to fall outwards as I get them set, this has tweaked my shoulder in the past as I struggled to pull them back into place.
If anything, this is probably a bit safer for the shoulders, in that sense.
[quote]HypertroPHd wrote:
I usually call these types of tricks Tendon Manipulation [/quote]
Wow, thats pretty fascinating, refreshing for all the ‘its genetics, get over it’ talk
Could you wrote more about TM?
What would be other ways to do this for inner pecs?
