Certain Muscles Refuse to Grow

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
41

[quote]USNS physique wrote:
Good lord…save the forum poster fanboy shit for the IMs. All of your metaphysical esoterica is good for the support group but not the gym. If you think you can bench 405,but your last max was 185, the cold hard reality crashes down on you right around the same time the bar does.

Very funny stroking session here, however. All the pats on the back and probably on the ass from the looks of it won’t get you results. Do yourself a favor and pick an established routine WSB or Bill Starr 5x5 for example and you will see results- period.

Save the jerkin around for these two ...whatever the hell they are-dorks...nerds...homos...i dunno, you choose.[/quote]

“If you think you can bench 405,but your last max was 185, the cold hard reality crashes down on you right around the same time the bar does.” Exactly! Whoever said this THINKING method will cause a result other than a failure, most likely if the reality is not probable?

Yep, THINKING that will cause you to most likely fail. However, BELIEVING a number that you could convince yourself of…well there you have. It will be done. As soon as your THOUGHT becomes realized as a belief in the brain …go for it. Until then …sit there on your prissy little ass with your negative attitude and disbelief and accomplish nothing!

You pretty much just summed up your entire intellect here in one post. I knew you were clueless, thanks for the proof!

merlin

42

I mean I can wear XL shirts and my backs in the sleeves area, and my traps pulling it tight up top. My arms are kind’ve wide enough to fit the sleeves, but my bicep peak is just a joke. I look at other people, and the bottom of their bicep touches their forearm when they flex, mine ends like a solid INCH from where my forearm starts when I’m pulling a double-bi.

Perhaps it is completely genetic, or I have bad insertion points, whatever all I knows is that regardless I could use more bicep and chest mass.

43

[quote]WildShoe wrote:
I mean I can wear XL shirts and my backs in the sleeves area, and my traps pulling it tight up top. My arms are kind’ve wide enough to fit the sleeves, but my bicep peak is just a joke. I look at other people, and the bottom of their bicep touches their forearm when they flex, mine ends like a solid INCH from where my forearm starts when I’m pulling a double-bi.

Perhaps it is completely genetic, or I have bad insertion points, whatever all I knows is that regardless I could use more bicep and chest mass.[/quote]

Maybe a bit of both.

44

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
USNS physique wrote:
<<<

Let’s see the arms before you start talking about light concentration curls…

What if his assessment is accurate and he actually does have these lagging groups? What would you recommend?[/quote]

I belive he does. I did, and fixed them through sheer will. I was determined that if I went through the most painful curls i could do. …that they would have to grow. This belief is what helped my control! You need to get control , the mind is the easiest way, the technique is a tool to assist as well.

If I’m doing squats and I’m thinking nothing but quads and no hams …by golly your body will help assist so that your quads are doing most of the work. You will target that muscle and continue to follow a form where you’re “feeling it” the most in the quads. Nobody ever said a technique trick couldn’t assist …but the mind is the catalyst and will always be #1.

I would reccomend he do them in front of me so I can see and make sure he is actually trying to feel nothing but his biceps working for the first time. Find out where in the form is he feeling it…, then help with some mental imaging to really isolate the biceps. See if he is actually making the mind-muscle connection.

Without it, the exercise won’t matter much …he will continue to fail if this is one of those muscles that he has trouble feeling! Sometimes a specific technique can trigger a response, but he has to stick with that and believe this will work and have some CONFIDENCE that it will work.

Dominant back and forearm muscles will probably continue to take over the movement if he can’t establish this connection. think about people that can move their pecs or any other muscles in a relaxed state and have excellent control over them …these people have a well establish mind-muscle connection. Not hard for them to tap into muscle at all!

It is really a matter of control. This is where belief in the muscle growing helps to stimulate it more, by sending signals from the brain to the muscle via the nervous system that this muscle has to work …it has to grow, it has to recuperate all the fibers. This mental zone just helps amp up recruitment and the breakdown process in building fiber.

In the end, the mind controls everything. Even the routine selection, exercise selection, rep selection, when is failure, how many more reps can i do with this weight/this pain, …it all starts and ends in the mind.

merlin

45

We have all gone through the dreaded plateaus, but most of us will realize its either a few possibilities that almost always point back to our choices.

  1. Am I getting enough calories, Not missing meals, good fats, and PWO nutrition?
  2. Am I getting enough rest? If not Increase food.
  3. are my weights increasing every time I go into the gym, either reps or strength? If not why?
  4. have I been stagnate with changing my programs, or changing to often?
    Am I working each muscle to often? or not enough?

All I can say is I would recommend you work on lifts like Powercleans and deadlifts for awhile, build your poundagesto a respectable weight, at least 225 powercleand and 400 deadlift is a decent starting base! and eat , corectly, if your still not growing shoot yourself.

46

[quote]WildShoe wrote:
I mean I can wear XL shirts and my backs in the sleeves area, and my traps pulling it tight up top. My arms are kind’ve wide enough to fit the sleeves, but my bicep peak is just a joke. I look at other people, and the bottom of their bicep touches their forearm when they flex, mine ends like a solid INCH from where my forearm starts when I’m pulling a double-bi.

Perhaps it is completely genetic, or I have bad insertion points, whatever all I knows is that regardless I could use more bicep and chest mass.[/quote]

i had tht problem 2 nd i started doin more hammer curls and forearm work nd tht gap is slowly going away. as for biceps in general there on of my strongest parts same w/ chest. i do alot of heavy weight low to moderate reps 4-8 nd the gains have been good.

when i was 15 my biceps measured 15.5 inches for a whole year and i realized i was seriously overtraing them 30 sets a session w/ 10-12 reps it was horrible. once i switched my routine i recovered and put 3/4 inch on my biceps in about 2 months its been alittle slower now but still good. as for chest build up your bench, mass will follow

47

KEVIN LEVRONE
1994 AND 1996 ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER CLASSIC WINNER
"You get as big as possible from becoming as strong as possible. Size doesn’t beget strength; it’s vice versa. When I started lifting, I went into the gym with that ‘How much can I bench, curl, squat and deadlift?’ attitude. That’s when I discovered how fast my strength could increase, and it made me crazy-intense to get even stronger. It was so motivating that I forgot all about building muscles, but that’s what enabled my huge spurt of muscle mass to sneak up on me. Before I knew it, I was a mass monster, and it all came from the following principles.

  • You have to lift free weights, and each time, it has to be more than you’re ever been able to lift.

  • Always do the basics: bench presses, squats, deadlifts, bent rows, standing military presses, barbell curls and close-grip benches.

  • Make sure it’s so heavy that it makes you sweat, grunt and scream. That means you’re forced beyond your limit.

  • Never do more than eight reps–and that’s to failure. For your heaviest sets, you should struggle for three or four.

  • Don’t count sets; just keep 'em going, increasing the weight each time. If your intensity is fired to its max, you’ll be surprised at how you get stronger with each set.

  • People don’t want to train until they get sore anymore.
    They train till it hurts, then stop. To get strong, train until it stops hurting.

  • Think ‘overload’ for both poundage and protein. My biggest strength gains came from consuming 6,500 calories a day, mostly protein."

levrone knows his stuff

48

Just in case you missed it and it got lost in the trainwreck of advice from mental midgets barking up a bunch of non-sense …I’ll repost some advice from a REAL trainer, not a BLOWHARD with their fav 5x whatever program.

(The Essence Of Bodybuilding) By Vince Gironda
–IronMan, May 1983

I have stated numerous times that champions obviously possess something that others do not. Even though training partners do the same routine set for set, rep for rep, they do not obtain the benefits of the champions.
I have observed champions train in a manner I do not approve, but they receive results that are phenomenal. What is it that they possess? Well, I will tell you, they are using mental suggestion (self-hypnosis).

When I first observed this, it puzzled me. The first time I noticed Walt Baptiste, former gym owner and magazine publisher from San Francisco (Body Moderne) touching his abdominals while backstage before going out to pose at several physique contests, he seemed to be saying something to his abdominals as he stroked them. He seemed to be sending a message into this body section, because I could actually see the ABS sharpen up and grow more outlined than his normal condition. I later discovered that Walt was sending mental images to his subconscious, to produce this phenomena.

I learned that you can actually produce the desired condition by picturing in your mind what you wish to manifest. He also breathed deeply and regularly in through his nose and out through his pursed lips. As you know, this type of breathing is employed between sets prior to repeating the next set. At this time, the mechanism employed should be to picture in your mind a clear image of the muscle or area of the body you wish to develop, and hold the image throughout the performance of that set.

Walt promoted the first Mr. California Physique Contests, in which I placed second and third several times. He later gave up his gym and opened a chain of yoga studios in the San Francisco area.

The technique of mental suggestion is what all physical culture writers are trying to explain when they throw that nebulous term “concentration” at you. They seem to recognize that concentration is necessary, but do not know how to trigger the mechanism that produces the phenomenon. The subconscious believes any thought you perceive, and stores it. It accepts everything that is thought or spoken by you or another, if you accept it as truth.

But it must be repeated again and again until the subconscious accepts it as fact. Then it will produce the condition pictured in your mind.

This procedure is what I maintain is used by the champions, whether or not they are aware of it. They are convinced of a successful outcome.

This awareness is more important that any steroid drug, any diet plan or supplement, or any exercise routine ever conceived. I have observed bodybuilders who take steroids and receive no benefits. They take unimaginable amounts of supplements and constantly try new routines, but are not getting results, and never will until they discover that what I have written here is the true essence of bodybuilding. For years I have been asked by my fans to write the secrets of the champions, and here you have it.

49

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:

  • Make sure it’s so heavy that it makes you sweat, grunt and scream. That means you’re forced beyond your limit.

  • Think ‘overload’ for both poundage and protein. My biggest strength gains came from consuming 6,500 calories a day, mostly protein."

levrone knows his stuff[/quote]

2 questions, it’s so heavy that it forces you beyond your limit. Beyond my limit in a squat means a hunched over back going up the entire way. Is this considered good? If it’s beyond my limit anyways, i’m not gona be able to do it, merlin magic or not.

next, was levrone on steroids? could I expect the same gains eating 1,250 grams of protein a day? He said mostly protein, and 1,250 would get you 5,000 calories a day from protein.

50

[quote]lifter85 wrote:

2 questions, it’s so heavy that it forces you beyond your limit. Beyond my limit in a squat means a hunched over back going up the entire way. Is this considered good? If it’s beyond my limit anyways, i’m not gona be able to do it, merlin magic or not.

next, was levrone on steroids? could I expect the same gains eating 1,250 grams of protein a day? He said mostly protein, and 1,250 would get you 5,000 calories a day from protein. [/quote]

lifter85 where does it say to use bad form, if you want to squat w/ bad form be my guest but i mentioned know where to use bad form to up your lifts. the point i was trying to make is to use heavy weights to overload the muscles causeing new gains in strength nd size.

to answer the second part, yes it is safe to say levrone was on steroids but again i did not say to take in 6500 calories a day i just posted wht levrone did. i wouldnt question his methods because i can deff. say he was one of the best bodybuilder to ever live steroids or not.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6914714541103112760

check his shit out

51

[quote]lifter85 wrote:
all the visualization and motivation in the world isn’t gona get me to bench press 500 lbs tomorrow if my max is 245. You can speak of mind over matter all you want, but if something is not within your limits, it’s not gona happen. If you think 500 is within my limits tomorrow just with visualization and motivation, why don’t you go try and do 2x your bench press tomorrow and see what happens? hell, why not 5x?[/quote]

i think you misunderstood merlin…i dont agree w/ all he has to say, but he did not mention nething to the extent of increasing your bench poundages by 255 pounds. i thnk he meant tht using visualization, nd setting goals, tht in the long run if you believe it long enough(realistic beliefs) tht you will eventually become wht you beleive.

if you bench 245 nd want 500 nd beleive it long enough you probably will bench press 500 pounds not over night though this would take years. just food for thought.

52

[quote]WildShoe wrote:
I mean I can wear XL shirts and my backs in the sleeves area, and my traps pulling it tight up top. My arms are kind’ve wide enough to fit the sleeves, but my bicep peak is just a joke. I look at other people, and the bottom of their bicep touches their forearm when they flex, mine ends like a solid INCH from where my forearm starts when I’m pulling a double-bi.

Perhaps it is completely genetic, or I have bad insertion points, whatever all I knows is that regardless I could use more bicep and chest mass.[/quote]

You aren’t going to change the insertion of your biceps anytime soon. Just add size to them the best you can and be happy with your strong points.

53

update: i did nothing over 20 lbs w/ biceps today and 40 lbs w/ triceps - and I must say I got a great pump and I realized something about my biceps - the harder i flex the less they are actually doing its almost like if i dont flex ALL the way, my biceps get really hard, if i flex as hard as I can my triceps get hard, but my biceps do NOT.

54

[quote]WildShoe wrote:
update: i did nothing over 20 lbs w/ biceps today and 40 lbs w/ triceps - and I must say I got a great pump and I realized something about my biceps - the harder i flex the less they are actually doing its almost like if i dont flex ALL the way, my biceps get really hard, if i flex as hard as I can my triceps get hard, but my biceps do NOT.[/quote]

Makes sense. You stated before that your triceps are dominant (have good neuromuscular control), while your biceps are weak (have poor neuromuscular control). When you’re “flexing” as hard as you can, you’re most likely inadvertently contracting your triceps, which will obviously cause them to get pumped, while not doing much for your biceps.

In other words you don’t have the neuromuscular control to only flex your biceps. Instead you wind up flexing your whole upper arm. And because your triceps are dominant they wind up getting worked.

I’d suggest not going above those poundages for biceps until you can really contract them on command. Once you can do that, then feel free to start upping the resistance.

Also, you don’t need to worry about going heavy at all while trying to build this mind-muscle connection. Feel free to use light weight and high reps. Get lots of blood in those muscles and perhaps the build up of lactic acid (burn) will help you to be able to feel your muscles contract better (Merlin suggested doing this in an earlier post, great advice).

Finally in regards to the advice that you need to get stronger to build the muscle, this is absolutely true. However, if you don’t build better neuromuscular connections with your weak muscle groups, then they will always be weak.

In other words, the muscle groups which are naturally dominant (back, triceps, hams, quads) will always end up doing the majority of the work, thus leading to suboptimal growth in your weak bodyparts.

This is basically what is meant by people when they say they are a “shoulder dominant bencher” or “chest dominant bencher” or “triceps dominant bencher”. They simply have muscle groups with better neuromuscular control/connections than others.

If they don’t do something to correct his problem (change exercises, supplement extra work for the weaker body parts, improve neuromuscular control) they will always be weak in those body parts.

Good training,

Sentoguy

55

[quote]WildShoe wrote:

WildShoe wrote:
Today I have arms, I will be doing Poliquin’s German Volume Training
10 sets of 10 reps or failure
of the best bicep and tricep exercise merlin calls out for muscle-mind connection. What do i have to lose, after all, one days worth of arm training?

Merlin, or anyone else, besides concentration curls, what are the best bicep/tricep exercises for getting complete isolation of the muscle and really being able to go light and concentrate? [/quote]

Really any curl variation that doesn’t allow for body english is good. Scott/preacher curls are another good variation, as are standing barbell curls with your back to the wall (this prevents you from using body english to lift the weight)

cable curls are nice as they provide constant tension (meaning that you can’t “hitch” the weight at the end of the movement (this occurs when people move their upper arms, thus placing the lower arm perpendicular to the ground, thus removing the stress from the biceps).

It also depends on the equipment that you have available to you. Some gyms have light barbells, some only have olympic bars. Most have small dumbbells though, so dumbbell exercises are usually a good choice.

You could do concentration curls, one arm scott/preacher curls, the supine dumbbell exercise Merlin mentioned (although personally I always had trouble with that one as the dumbbells would hit the ground before I could get a full ROM), really any dumbbell biceps curl is good.

Hope this helps.

Sentoguy

56

[quote]WildShoe wrote:
I mean I can wear XL shirts and my backs in the sleeves area, and my traps pulling it tight up top. My arms are kind’ve wide enough to fit the sleeves, but my bicep peak is just a joke. I look at other people, and the bottom of their bicep touches their forearm when they flex, mine ends like a solid INCH from where my forearm starts when I’m pulling a double-bi.

[/quote]

Probably really obvious, but have you tried rotating your fists outward when you do double bi? are you sure any the “other people” you speak of weren’t doing this?

57

I read a few posts so sorry if it’s already been posted bro but I feel you. I’ve been in the game for 6 years and I’m only 19 and I feel your pain. I’ve trained strictly for football until this season, and although I’ve put on alot of weight over the years, I don’t feel big enough. It takes a long time man, keep lifting, keep eating, it all comes with time.

58

Can I throw my points in here too?

Sometimes I will say to myself all day long that I will lift 10 kilo or something in one of my exercises and with more reps, because I am such a strong and big motherfucker - and what happens when I do that? Yes, I do indeed lift that amount, because I have psyched myself up and did believe I could. But it is taxing on my mind, though.

59

[quote]Tulkastaldo wrote:
Probably really obvious, but have you tried rotating your fists outward when you do double bi? are you sure any the “other people” you speak of weren’t doing this?
[/quote]

Other people’s bicep naturally connects from their elbow to their shoulder, and has a nice pop right at the elbow, with MINIMAL training, When flexing, my upper biceps(i know there is no such thing, but bear with me) are BIG, but they end 2/3 of the way to the elbow joint. It’s probably just my insertion points and something I’ll have to live with, so be it, all the more reason to get huge.

60

[quote]WildShoe wrote:
update: i did nothing over 20 lbs w/ biceps today and 40 lbs w/ triceps - and I must say I got a great pump and I realized something about my biceps - the harder i flex the less they are actually doing its almost like if i dont flex ALL the way, my biceps get really hard, if i flex as hard as I can my triceps get hard, but my biceps do NOT.[/quote]

Yeah, it’s neuromuscular. I’ve the opposite problem, if I bench press my pecs grow nicely and that’s pretty much enough for the pecs. Or I just do pec flys and the pecs grow. But I have to bomb the crap out of the triceps with all kinds of exercises to produce even a tiny growth.

In my case too it’s clearly neuromuscular, I just find it difficult to trigger a strong contraction in those muscles.

The only way around is to focus on the lagging muscles, try different things, volume, intensity, the whole nine yards. It’s like being handicapped and trying to re-educate yourself. Think - you broke your legs and now you’re doing physical therapy to rebuild strength, coordination, gait, etc. Same with your biceps.
Eventually you’ll succeed, it’s just a matter of time, energy and skill.